This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#26 | Back to Top04-13-2009 04:33:36 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Imaginary Bad Bug wrote:

Then again, Utena and Anthy being a canon couple was not one of my expectations going in, either.

Well, what can I say, different expectations yield different results~

But I had no idea about Utena and Anthy before watching the film, I was hooked when Anthy made her first appearance...and completely defeated by the time Anthy unzipped Utena's pants.... emot-tongue

Nevertheless, having gotten some impressions about what Anthy's character should be like from the film, I was not prepared for what TV Anthy had to express. It was delightful to watch. I grew to love her tormented and broken soul. I don't care how immoral or cynical Anthy was portrayed. The depth of her imperfection was (and still is) so unlike the majority of female characters in Japanese animes. Her character development in the TV series is also one of the best I have seen in many Japanese animes (Rin from Eva is also very well crafted, but there are too many of her popping around that show) Without doubt Anthy is unique. etc-love

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#27 | Back to Top04-13-2009 05:44:38 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Well I'll just say if you're a hardcore yuri fan, the TV series will end up disappointing you

I very much disagree. To me the series is already very yuri. The movie is just WAY MORE. emot-keke

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#28 | Back to Top04-13-2009 07:00:58 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Aelanie: Yes, the TV series is very yuri in a very subtle manner. It's so subtle that there are times when I would scream, "Oh come on, Anthy, just push her over and get it over with!"

Anyhow, despite the subtle nature of their relationship, I often encounter people who are convinced that Anthy and Utena are just friends. emot-gonk  Ah! As if!

So I guess if one is really into Yuri, then watching the movie first isn't a bad idea. It explicitly tells you what not to miss out when watching the TV series~ emot-rofl

Last edited by Itsuke (04-13-2009 08:12:27 PM)

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#29 | Back to Top04-13-2009 07:04:49 PM

The_A_Man
Someday Shiner
From: Canada
Registered: 02-22-2009
Posts: 9107
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Ya, the TV series has a little yuri, I just wanted something more. A lot more. At least an 'I love you' or something.

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#30 | Back to Top04-13-2009 08:46:31 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

The_A_Man: actually I quite like the fact that Utena never said that to Anthy and vice versa, the phrase is so overused these days, it seems devoid of meaning. The promise Utena made to Anthy about having tea together ten years later seemed very sincere. I think that along is better than a thousand I love you.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if there are more airtime showing Utena and Anthy in bed doing something other than talking. etc-loveetc-loveetc-love

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#31 | Back to Top04-13-2009 08:48:38 PM

The_A_Man
Someday Shiner
From: Canada
Registered: 02-22-2009
Posts: 9107
Website

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Ya, lets have something hardcore in bed! Although, I always thought their laying down thingy the did in the Akio arc could be considered synchronized orgasms.

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#32 | Back to Top04-14-2009 12:09:10 AM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

The_A_Man wrote:

Ya, lets have something hardcore in bed! Although, I always thought their laying down thingy the did in the Akio arc could be considered synchronized orgasms.

Yup, it's very tastefully done~ Good enough to be a wallpaper~~ poptartpoptartpoptartpoptart

Take about hardcore, I really love the scene in the movie where Utena grabbed Anthy by her blouse and pushed her down onto the ground. I was expecting a lot more afterward emot-rolleyes...although the dancing scene was equally great...

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#33 | Back to Top04-14-2009 02:34:23 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Itsuke wrote:

Aelanie: Yes, the TV series is very yuri in a very subtle manner. It's so subtle that there are times when I would scream, "Oh come on, Anthy, just push her over and get it over with!"

Anyhow, despite the subtle nature of their relationship, I often encounter people who are convinced that Anthy and Utena are just friends. emot-gonk  Ah! As if!

So I guess if one is really into Yuri, then watching the movie first isn't a bad idea. It explicitly tells you what not to miss out when watching the TV series~ emot-rofl

The subtly is one of my favorite things about the series, not only in their relationship but in general.


20 threads dead so far.

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#34 | Back to Top04-14-2009 08:15:45 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Does anyone have anything else to say on the topic of whether watching the movie before the series is a good or bad idea, or is this thread now about the degree and nature of the yuri in Anthy's relationship with Utena?  If the latter, I suggest someone start a new thread about it.  Bizarrely, I don't think we've ever had a thread about exactly that topic.

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#35 | Back to Top04-14-2009 08:26:06 PM

The_A_Man
Someday Shiner
From: Canada
Registered: 02-22-2009
Posts: 9107
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I was just going to leave this thread, but we never had a topic about Utena's and Anthy's lesbian relationship? I must change that!

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#36 | Back to Top04-14-2009 09:24:30 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 589

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

The movie is very parasitic on the series. It sort of stands up on its own but makes much more sense when you have seen the series first. Then read the movie manga which clarifies things a bit more. It's been mentioned before that the series leaves some doubt about whether Utena and Anthy find each other again and the movie clarified that.

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#37 | Back to Top04-15-2009 07:24:02 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

brian: The movie is very parasitic on the series.

Agreed, and good way of putting it. emot-keke

Hence I vote anime first.
Then when they are truly sucked in and deceived and their head is reeling from the WTF-ness of the series (not to mention all that emotion that's sending their emotions reeling), hit them with the:
movie second.

They won't understand it even then, but they will be so out of it that they won't care. school-eng101 emot-rofl

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#38 | Back to Top04-21-2009 12:10:39 PM

J-Syxx
Banned
Registered: 04-25-2007
Posts: 102

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Didn't Ikuhara say on the commentary he intended for them to be yuri in the tv show, but only scaled it back a bit because of Saito?  So in essence it's canon in the tv show anyways since he was obviously the major if not only creative force behind the tv show.  I don't really agree with interpretations of fiction that ignore the intent of the author.  The movie is of course much more blatant, and he suggested Saito was again pissed about it.  I don't think she's such a prude anymore, but arguing whether or not Utena or Anthy have a lesbian element to their relationship in the tv show is a bit stupid to me.  No one here does this for sure, but some otaku are pretty homophobic and will just flat out deny any gay undertones in anything they like.  Kaorin being "straight" in the minds of Azumanga Daioh fans is a great example of this.  So I see the yuri element in Utena definitely beign dismissed all the time on other websites.

As for the question at hand, definitely watch the tv show first.  It will definitely make it easier to digest, if not more enjoyable.  That's what I did, and I'm glad I did so.  I love both the tv show and the movie very much.

Last edited by J-Syxx (04-21-2009 12:12:40 PM)

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#39 | Back to Top04-23-2009 08:10:51 PM

KillerxXxQueen
Snowdrop Lover
From: North Augusta, SC
Registered: 04-22-2009
Posts: 1760

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw clips of the show first and then read the books, then saw the anime, and halfway through watched the movie. Of course, finishing the anime made the movie make hella-more sense...

But then, what in Utena actually makes sense?

Hands up for all who saw the Random Salad!!! [Definite yes!]


"Reason I know is only a drug and, as such, its effects are never permanent."
                                                         --Hope Mirrlees, Lud-in-the-Mist

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#40 | Back to Top04-24-2009 08:10:18 AM

PrinceoftheLostEternity
Rose Assignee
From: Castle of Eternal Dark
Registered: 04-06-2009
Posts: 1720

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

That's a big-ass hands up from me!!!!! Dude, if only you were there...

In my personal opinion, it wouldn't matter wither way. Neither the show nor the movie make any damned sense if you try and understand it. Only in accepting the fact that you'll never comprehend anything at all in regards to SKU will you begin to understand. The movie is a deviation of the show, and the show a deviation of the movie. No matter how you look at it, you have to start somewhere. I watched the movie first, then read the manga and watched the anime at the same time. It was...interesting.


I want your love and I want your revenge, you and me can write a bad romance.

The profile formerly known as Prince... oftheLostEternity... was a shared profile, one of whose users hasn't been around for a while.  The other one is now posting as DiddlyPanda.  Wewt!  emot-biggrin

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#41 | Back to Top04-24-2009 11:32:59 AM

lex
Master Dominus of SRS BZN
From: in absolute splendor
Registered: 11-27-2007
Posts: 1784

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I showed the movie to my friend, who has never watched the anime. However, she did read the manga adaptation of the movie. She followed it pretty well, but some things were lost on her like the symbolism of the Roses and other small indicators that you would have had to watch the show to "get." I do think that you can watch each independently and still be able to follow the storyline, though. Maybe watching the anime first will prompt them to want to get deeper into the anime, since I think the movie is basically a randomized (is that even a word?) condensed soup of the show.


http://i47.tinypic.com/x6cz5y.jpg

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#42 | Back to Top04-24-2009 12:01:14 PM

BalamiyaVardihi
High Tripper
From: New Jersey
Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 243

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I watched the movie first, and then watched the series, and to this day I still say that the ebst version of Utena is with the anime's story with the movie's artists


Twirling round with this familiar parabol
Spinning, weaving round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and
Celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing

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#43 | Back to Top05-02-2009 04:24:15 PM

Melegant
Anthy Assailer
From: Tintagel, Kernau
Registered: 05-02-2009
Posts: 73

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I think it is not so important. Movie and series are different, yes, but they can not spoil adventure from the other one.

Hm, I still did not decide what I like more... movie or series? Series are more comprehensive and have deeper insights of characters, but movie is great story with unexpected end.


"Lascivious grace, in whom all ill well shows,
Kill me with spites; yet we must not be foes."

- William Shakespeare, sonnet n. 40 -

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#44 | Back to Top05-02-2009 10:54:14 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1514

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I read the manga, watched the movie, then the anime, followed by Adolescence of Utena manga...

In between the manga and movie though, I was reading ALOT of fanfiction, so somethings weren't immediately lost on me...

I think it worked pretty well....

<off topic...kind of>
My friend watched it, and was COMPLETELY lost on everything... it was really funny. After she saw it, I was all like "So, how did you react when you realized Touga was dead?" and she was all like "Touga was dead?!"

she went on to explain that she left the room at some point without pausing it to get a drink [3 minutes tops], came back and Utena was a car... all she could do was stop and stare... saying "WTF?"

// but she's still cool... I guess \\


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/anthy_utena/rukasan.gif Believing in the power of Love and Justice since 1999
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Amazon FFC fucking shit up since 2015
Best Buy Warehouse - Tech decks on deck since 2016

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#45 | Back to Top05-03-2009 02:57:31 AM

Melegant
Anthy Assailer
From: Tintagel, Kernau
Registered: 05-02-2009
Posts: 73

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

<smile>

She probably tried to understand this anime by rational way, but this movie must be "felt".


"Lascivious grace, in whom all ill well shows,
Kill me with spites; yet we must not be foes."

- William Shakespeare, sonnet n. 40 -

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