Because reviewers have a stack of stuff to get through, and pretty much rely on first impressions. They simply don't have the time to do the in depth pondering that a more complicated series requires. They may make an attempt if it's the latest instalment of Eva or the like, but shows like SKU are simply not popular enough for a reviewer to think it's worth the time and extra effort of going into any sort of depth.

As for Vixen Reviews bagging the repeated shots of Utena ascending to the duelling arena, that's showing a distinct lack of basic knowledge about traditional animation techniques on her part. I feel kinda embarrassed for her; it's not the sort of thing you'd expect someone who thinks of themself as a knowledgeable reviewer to say. Reminds me of Rimmer and hot gazpacho soup.

(BTW, what's a yonic symbol?)

The opposite of a phallic symbol; something that symbolizes a vagina.

I think that most complaints aimed against Utena's animation are justified - it is terribly cheap at times. The plot, on the other hand has more to it than a single viewing can reveal, meaning that most people who watch the show only once never get to understand its full depth, and reviewers usually aim their reviews at normal viewers who don't know anything about the series, and won't appreciate too in-depth analysis of a show, since it detracts from the basic question of whether it's fun and entertaining to watch, or not.

Well, as far as "filler" goes: at the very least, the very comedic, Nanami-type episodes are an understandable point of annoyance. Their tone is very different from the rest of the series, and it's jarring, especially at the beginning of the series when one wants to get drawn deeper into the mysteries of the series. They still make me a little bit nervous when showing the series to others, though ultimately I think I appreciate them: both for the humor itself (although they aren't always completely successful) and for the later emotional backlash when you hit an episode like 10, 31, or 32 that approaches Nanami seriously.

Even the Nanami episodes have a place in the deeper meaning of things, as they subtly emphasize Anthy's passive-agressive vindicativeness, foreshadowing her role as the Witch. I still mostly skip them when I rewatch the show, since that revelation is no longer surprising when you've seen the series already, but it's still pretty amazing that such subtle foreshadowing has been integrated so seamlessly into such silly filler episodes.

I think Revolutionary Girl Utena is a cult series. You either love it or hate it. 

As for people dismissing the Nanami centric fillers, I want to say that they're some of the few in any tv series which I like. Plus, "Nanami's Egg" is actually a real turning point for her because she finally shows that she can love something more than her brother. Don't forget that.

Not as bad as the PROFESSIONAL Amazon.com's reviews of the series.

Fans of this epicene melodrama will enjoy the overwrought but inconclusive climax; more skeptical viewers will find it long on pretense and short on substance. (Not rated: suitable for ages 14 and older: violence, brief nudity, suggestions of homosexuality and incest) --Charles Solomon

WTF?

I can't agree more OITL. I mainly watch JO's reviews over Vixen's cause I feel JO does a bit more of a professional style. I tend to enjoy her reviews a fair bit as well but I have to admit (I know this ramble might make me sound like a bit of an asshole), I really have an issue with her views on Utena and Anthy. Why does that make me sound like an asshole? Cause I feel she brings too much of her religion into this viewpoint. She's gone on long rants about how God changed her life and etc, and I can't help but feel those Catholic views interact with how she views the series. I'm not trying to rant about religion or anything, and perhaps I'm biased cause I very much support the UtenaxAnthy relationship but I find it so hard to look at the whole of the series and just write them off as BFFs as she does.

I love the series for keeping it kind of open to how the viewer takes in their relationship, but I can't help but feel someone is wearing huge denial glasses to not see that there is a deep love between the two. Yes I know love has many levels, and a deep platonic love is possible, but by the end of the series, especially the very last frame of episode 39 when the episode title is listed, I feel it very openly spells out: They love each other on a deeply romantic level, even if Utena can't properly explain it for most of the series.

I give her credit for putting Akio on her top 20 villains list, but I once read a huge input she gave about Utena and Anthy and I just felt myself bothered by it.

This has been quite a speech and I hope I haven't put anyone off by it. I just remember reading one of JO's huge rants as to why Utena is not a yuri series and I just ended up feeling like so: :| I guess I'm mostly bothered by it because most things refered to as yuri or yaoi tend to have sex scenes abound instead of just being a series about same sex relations, as I tend to view the genres. To me, Utena is a series that kind of evolves into being a yuri, like how relationships themselves evolve, but it's a yuri series with emotion and conflict that extends much further than "Can I get in her pants? :B" It doesn't turn me off from her reviews or anything, I'm just basically going to avoid her views on the matter because I very much disagree with them.

Last edited by Calamity (07-21-2010 07:19:27 AM)

So.  Gio.  Calamity.  ARE YOU ME???

I can't agree more OITL. I mainly watch JO's reviews over Vixen's cause I feel JO does a bit more of a professional style. I tend to enjoy her reviews a fair bit as well but I have to admit (I know this ramble might make me sound like a bit of an asshole), I really have an issue with her views on Utena and Anthy. Why does that make me sound like an asshole? Cause I feel she brings too much of her religion into this viewpoint. She's gone on long rants about how God changed her life and etc, and I can't help but feel those Catholic views interact with how she views the series. I'm not trying to rant about religion or anything, and perhaps I'm biased cause I very much support the UtenaxAnthy relationship but I find it so hard to look at the whole of the series and just write them off as BFFs as she does.

Exactly, it's not even that she doesn't see Utena and Anthy as a couple -hey, interpretation and what not, it's how defensive she is of this fact. Dare anyone find the slightest hint of shoujo-ai in a show she likes!  And I found it incredibly rude of her to imply that anyone who sees Utena and Anthy as a romantic couple has missed the point of the show entirely, and that the movie was just lesbian nonsense.  She even seems to have a problem with anyone implying that Touga could have bisexual tendencies...

JO wrote:

EDIT: On a random note, Juri would be a totally canon lesbian, as her sexual identity is tied directly into her masculine disposition because of her INTENSE sense of pride...and Touga is actually straight. Yup, you heard me right, straight. Remember, he actually SAYS that he finds homosexuality disgraceful and he is a total narcissist pig, but the point is that, while not being attracted to men, he TAKES ON the feminine role by subjugating himself to a power-wielding figure for a fulfillment of his desires, instead of wielding a "sword" of his own to obtain power with his own hands. So...this is exemplified by making him Akio's little sex toy. It's not like he was attracted to Akio per se, but he was attracted to the "princess" role rather than the "prince," and that's why Touga never achieves revolution...yet. Utena's release may have done him some good, as you'll notice he's the least quick to forget about her, and she brings out the most masculine aspects of him, which are emblems of his true identity, and not the wussification that Akio perverts his power lust into.

Yeah.   Just a few things there I take issue with.  :/

I ended up stating my case on this whole matter on the D2 brigade forums (In Vixen's Utena thread), but I don't frequent that site anymore (they deleted all the old comments on videos when they revamped the site!) because I find the other reviewers subpar and can catch JO on thatguywiththeglasses.com anyway.

I can't blame her for attaching her religious views to the scenario, or hate or for it, it just bothers me how judgmental she is being.  I don't know if she is aware of the fact, but she's being a tad homophobic and some of what she has said reeks of very subtle sexism (women who have masculine traits are cool, as long as they act all girly and vulnerable around guys!).  At least she keeps this shit out of the reviews, for which I am very appreciative.  Okay, so there was a hint of it in her Evangelion review, but she sectioned all that off separately as a rant unrelated to the final score, and I still feel her main beef wasn't with the message but the storytelling, which I kinda agree with.


-- As for the Nanami filler episodes, at the very least they are self-contained, so one can choose to skip them.  I like them, but only enough for a rare re-watch.

Calamity wrote:

I actually haven't watched her Eva review yet, mainly because on the very same D2 forum I read her basically freaking out about them using imagery from her "dear religion" (her words, not snark on my part). I guess I'm not exactly the best person to say anything on the matter, as I'm basically Agnostic, but I was worried that she would break her usual rather professional review style and spend the length of the review angsting about how Anno is a douche for using religious imagery of her given religion.

Her defensiveness on differing opinions is what bothers me as well. In the aforementioned UtenaxAnthy rant she seemed to try to more or less beat someone down because they viewed Utena and Anthy as a couple and she did not. She wasn't cruel about it, but it lead to what my brain translated as a lot of "YOU'REWRONGWRONGWRONGANDI'MRIGHT" til basically the other person folded. I never wanted to join the forum more badly than I did right at that moment just so I could tell JO that she really was being ridiculous on the matter. I didn't though, cause it just wasn't worth my effort when I can come here and talk about Utena with people I like being around and I know won't pounce all over each other for differing opinions.

I'm not about to write a five page book post to anyone that doesn't view them as a couple and how wrong they are (which is basically what I feel she did on the opposite side of the matter), opinions exist because we aren't all hive minded and can think for ourselves.

This.

I feel like, yes, Utena's completely up for interpretation on that subject matter since they don't make it very explicit either way, but I'm on the side that believes there was probably something there more than just "bffs".  Personally, I feel like, regardless of religion what's there is there.  And if she's biased to think that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH SAME SEX EXISTS IN UTENA just because of her religion, then that's almost like plugging your ears and screaming LALALALALAICAN'THEARYOUUUUU.

I've seen her Eva review, although I haven't seen the anime.  Her problems didn't seem to be with religious imagery, but the storytelling.  That was what she ranted on.

And I think it is a lovely thing that Utena and Anthy's relationship remains ambiguous throughout the anime.  It really doesn't make sense to me for someone to declare it one way or the other.  Yes, they were taking on typically romantic roles.  But yes, it went past that.  In the end, their feelings for each other can't be summed up as "prince" and "princess", so why say the degree of romantic to platonic should be simplified in that way?  You can have your opinion, but the show doesn't back one side or the other up.

A lot of it is personal choice.  I showed my mother A Very Potter Musical, which has two male characters that, while maintaining the guise of friendship, are obviously not fooling anyone down to the language they use.  It's a satire on the concept; it's supposed to be obvious they're in lurrrrveee.  My mother is fairly accepting, but she sees it as strictly platonic, and it's just because that's how she wants to see it.

Short Fat Otaku - Episode 6: Revolutionary Girl Utena (1/3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h72HS2dt … re=related
Short Fat Otaku - Episode 6: Revolutionary Girl Utena (2/3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O_-T-1- … re=related
Short Fat Otaku - Episode 6: Revolutionary Girl Utena (3/3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oibWtvyi … re=related

This Guy Is the Absolute Worst!
As if ripping apart the series, movie, and game wasn't bad enough, he bad mouths the fandom too!
I'm seriously considering flagging this jerk, any objections?

Last edited by RhythmFusion (05-16-2011 06:02:34 PM)

What do you mean in vogue?

Oh would you look at that, he really is saying a lot about Empty Movement.

I don't mind. You run a site this big and you have to be ready to be called fucking nuts.

Yeah, he's pretty much a fat-hating asshat who believes possessing a penis and watching anime makes his opinions all important and infallible, and confuses copious amount of cussing and pointing out things he does not like for critique. Nothing new here.

Cosplay?  Analysis?  Dear lord, we are crazy!  We surely must do these things because we devote our lives and every waking second to this show -not because it's, yanno, fun.  What's wrong with us?  We need more half-naked women and pre-pubescent girls on our walls, stat!

I've long since come to terms that not only are there very, very many people out there who do not 'get' Utena wholly (as in, they understand and appreciate the character development, but not the literary or other types references, or that it's absurdist fiction that focuses on the themes and motifs of shoujo) but that aren't interested in getting it -they came to Utena wanting either super-sappy or detailed yuri, or moe, or at least lots of boobs, and when they didn't find that, really couldn't care less about the rest of it.  And mostly, that 99.9% of what most of us here "get" about the deeper themes and ideas in Utena we gained because we loved it first, and then delved in deeper- we re-watched the episodes, studied references, looked up information about the makers and discussed theories with each other and in general devoted a certain amount of time and thought to figuring it out.  Most of us were young when we saw it, or had not seen a lot of shoujo.  We didn't immediately understand or fully appreciate it on first watch.  This is going to be true for any anime fan when they first watch it.  They will either like it a lot and start thinking about it, and be willing to have their own perspectives on it challenged, and figure more and more about it out, or they will not be particularly interested and will simply think it pointlessly weird or boring.

Utena is hailed as a masterpiece, coveted and adored by a few, and the kind of show that people can take away different, equally valuable things from.  If it's not popular, so be it.  Just the way things turn out. 

Though I do think he needs to credit Naji for using clips from her dub.

[And I thought all the characters do the Sega Logo Tune, you get a different one each time, unless I am very likely mistaken.]

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (05-16-2011 11:16:20 PM)