This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#76 | Back to Top10-17-2011 11:25:08 PM

CausalityStar
Caretaker
From: Idaho
Registered: 09-12-2010
Posts: 215

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

It's a little hard to say since everyone in this show is messed up in one way or the other, but they all do add important things to the story. I will say that when I first started watching the show, I absolutely hated Saionji for the way he treated Anthy. And I still hate Saionji for slapping Anthy, but I have grown to appreciate him more as a character and I even occasionally like him. I suppose that's because we really got to see a lot of his motives and basically learn why he is the way he is. I actually dislike Touga much more than Saionji. I think that it was because after a while his fake "noble prince" act started to get annoying. I guess one good thing about Saionji is that he's honest and never claims to be chivalrous or a prince because he knows he's not like that. I suppose another thing is that we don't really get to understand Touga and his motives the same way we do for Saionji. You can probably guess that Touga may want power because he felt bad about not being able to save Utena when they were kids, but it's really still guesswork. 

I guess another character I didn't really care for was Ruka. A big issue I have with Ruka is how many fans are willing to totally excuse all his faults and demonize Shiori. There are many things that are unlikable about Shiori, but I hate it when people say they hate Shiori but like Ruka because they love Juri. Oh really, if you love Juri so much, then why do you like the guy who sexually assaulted her?! Oh wait, it was okay because Ruka loved her. What a great lesson to teach young girls. Some guy sexually assaulting you is okay if he says he loves you.

I also never cared for movie!Saionji because they basically took all his worst faults and removed any of the good points. I hate that Touga was the one who got to be a totally good character in the movie and all princely just because that was always, always a facade in the show. I suppose I just view Touga as being a bigger ass than Saionji.

I hate Nanami for what she did to that cat. She isn't a very good person, but it is hard to stay mad at a comic relief character who's always getting karmic justice at a ten-fold level.

Offline

 

#77 | Back to Top10-21-2011 10:12:34 PM

Android raptor
Rose Smilee
From: North GA, USA
Registered: 08-11-2009
Posts: 126
Website

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

To be fair with Nanami and the cat, did she even realize the cat was going to die until she saw the crows/etc? I think it's entirely possible, considering her age and naivety, that she thought the cat would just drift downstream and wash ashore elsewhere unharmed (such things do happen in numerous fairy tales and other stories). And when she saw the crows and whatnot and realized what was really going to happen, she became very upset and remorseful, running away crying IIRC.

Seconding Ruka so hard though. Even if he loved her, Juri sure as hell didn't love him back! Not after that kiss anyway emot-gonk

Last edited by Android raptor (10-21-2011 10:14:12 PM)

Offline

 

#78 | Back to Top10-22-2011 05:01:02 PM

CausalityStar
Caretaker
From: Idaho
Registered: 09-12-2010
Posts: 215

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

Android raptor wrote:

To be fair with Nanami and the cat, did she even realize the cat was going to die until she saw the crows/etc? I think it's entirely possible, considering her age and naivety, that she thought the cat would just drift downstream and wash ashore elsewhere unharmed (such things do happen in numerous fairy tales and other stories). And when she saw the crows and whatnot and realized what was really going to happen, she became very upset and remorseful, running away crying IIRC.

Seconding Ruka so hard though. Even if he loved her, Juri sure as hell didn't love him back! Not after that kiss anyway emot-gonk

I never though about Nanami and the cat that way. You could be right that Nanami didn't believe that the cat would die until she saw the crows. I do hate that she did that, but a least she immediately regretted her actions and felt remorse. That is something we never really see her big brother do. I think the reason that Nanami is not nearly as bad a Touga is because she at least feels regret and remorse for some of the horrible things she did. We also don't know exactly how long Touga has been manipulative, but by the time the series starts, we gradually see that Touga has been subtly encouraging Nanami's brother complex for a while, which is her main motivation for doing cruel things. Like I said before, I usually don't hate her just because she seems to be the character that karmic justice actively follows on the show.

I'm happy you agree about the Ruka thing. I admit that he did have some redeeming qualities and I probably still think that Touga is worse than him. That doesn't excuse the sexual assault though and the excuses his fans give for why he did it sound exactly like the way society at large makes excuses to prevent rapists from actually having to take responsibility for their actions. For Ruka, people use the, "rape is love," argument which is really disturbing when you consider how often it's used in real life.

That said, I actually don't think that he really would have raped Juri, but what he did is definitely sexual assault. Also, Ruka was already doing a good job at making Juri hate him, so him attacking Juri wasn't necessary at all to get this elaborate plan to work.

Offline

 

#79 | Back to Top10-24-2011 03:12:42 PM

Gainel
Rose Bride
Registered: 07-08-2010
Posts: 116

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

I'm gigantic fans of almost all the characters (including not-major characters like Wakaba and characters with glaring flaws like Saionji) except...
- Shiori
- Aiko & Yuuko (I count Keiko as a seperate character because she actually has a real personality and backstory)
- Tokiko
- Akio

Shiori I hate because she's pathetic. And by that I mean really, truly pathetic in such a way that she's too low to even pity. She is entirely dependent on boys (namely Ruka, during the episodes she appears in) and is bitter and hateful toward a person who has never done anything to whatsoever harm her. She has let her jealousy get the better of her all her life. She is emotionally immature, a child, and will most likely remain so all her life. I do not like Shiori.

Aiko and Yuuko are not really even worth mentioning. They appear only as henchmen to Nanami and "friends" with Keiko, and are just background characters with meaningless lives.

Tokiko... I just very much dislike her for breaking poor Professor Nemuro. She seems very insensitive as well, which she shouldn't be. Of course I place the majority of the blame on...

Akio. He is evil, selfish, and manipulative. The fact that he's clever, older than most of the characters, and excellent at what he does can't make him an adult in my eyes. His motivations are only for his benefit. He does not even care about his sister, who suffered a fate worse than death in order to save him, but instead morphed into a cruel shade of what he once was. Added to this, he is not even as self-sufficient as he seems - he is really almost entirely dependent on Anthy's role as the Rose Bride and his sacrificial maiden.


Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing not to put it on a fruit salad.

Offline

 

#80 | Back to Top10-24-2011 05:17:18 PM

Makubi
Touga Topper
From: SE England
Registered: 10-19-2011
Posts: 56

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

Gainel wrote:

Tokiko... I just very much dislike her for breaking poor Professor Nemuro. She seems very insensitive as well, which she shouldn't be.

That's interesting, I guess I've never really thought of Tokiko that way... Having recently rewatched the end of the Black Rose Arc I did find it interesting that she never really shows too much affection towards Nemuro, although she obviously does admire and respect him, it's not entirely clear whether those feelings go beyond the platonic. If that's the case, her relationship with Akio would only be a betrayal from Nemuro's point of view.

I don't think there's any character I dislike overly strongly, although I do find Saionji's good qualities somewhat hard to find. I did also initially hate Shiori for being her manipulative badself, but I did feel by the end of the series that she had grown as a character, thanks in part to Ruka's meddling, as she definetly seems to have gotten over her jealously of Juri.

Offline

 

#81 | Back to Top10-24-2011 09:04:40 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

Makubi wrote:

That's interesting, I guess I've never really thought of Tokiko that way... Having recently rewatched the end of the Black Rose Arc I did find it interesting that she never really shows too much affection towards Nemuro, although she obviously does admire and respect him, it's not entirely clear whether those feelings go beyond the platonic. If that's the case, her relationship with Akio would only be a betrayal from Nemuro's point of view.

You know, that's a good point. Was Tokiko ever aware of his feelings? Without knowing about them, how can she be blamed for stomping on them? If nothing else though, that we see her with Akio and not a random other scientist implies an essential preference in men that would not include Nemuro. emot-frown

Least favorite character? Sorry guys, probably Shiori. I understand why people relate to her, and I do at times also, but if we go by 'characters I'd be likely to not be friends with IRL', it'll be her. emot-redface


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

Offline

 

#82 | Back to Top10-27-2011 01:32:40 PM

Rotten Mooring
Precious One
Registered: 10-26-2011
Posts: 281

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

It's hard to really HATE anybody in the Utena world, for the reasons Dollface stated.

Probably Touga.  Not because he makes me angry or anything and I don't hate him.  But I don't like him because I find him so boring.  I mean, he's just there, and he seems kind of pointless to me.  I found it hard to care about anything he did.

Touga's one of my least favorite for similar reasons. I feel the boy is in need of a character development arc where he learns that looking nice and being polite are not lasting substitutes for likable personality traits.

Apart from thinking Touga was irritating by way of being incomplete, I also disliked both Tokiko and Nemuro. I just didn't become attached to either one of them and by all rights, I should have liked Nemuro, but they introduced him like a Sailor Moon villain and after that I just couldn't bring myself to care about him.

And since the question is least favorite, I will go ahead and give that spot to Nemuro. Touga irritated me, but I wouldn't deny him the screen time, and Tokiko is just such an obvious Utena-expy with so little time to develop her, she mostly just gets apathy from me. Nemuro made me angry because I felt like I was supposed to like him but didn't.
I always knew he wasn't going to be a permanent cast member (on the first viewing with no spoilers even) so I just couldn't get invested in him. emot-frown
Nearly every time he got screen time, I wished they had given it to someone else.

Offline

 

#83 | Back to Top10-27-2011 07:47:41 PM

Android raptor
Rose Smilee
From: North GA, USA
Registered: 08-11-2009
Posts: 126
Website

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

Gainel wrote:

Shiori I hate because she's pathetic. And by that I mean really, truly pathetic in such a way that she's too low to even pity. She is entirely dependent on boys (namely Ruka, during the episodes she appears in) and is bitter and hateful toward a person who has never done anything to whatsoever harm her. She has let her jealousy get the better of her all her life. She is emotionally immature, a child, and will most likely remain so all her life. I do not like Shiori.

Looks like you've never had to deal with self-esteem so cripplingly low it warps your perception on life that you do things like, say, try and bring your friend down for "no reason". You're lucky. Oh and believe me, someone like Shiori probably wakes up every day with those exact messages about herself playing on loop in her head. Stuff like that has a nasty way of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Though in the last episode she does seem to be getting better.


Ruka still scares me emot-gonk

Offline

 

#84 | Back to Top11-03-2011 06:53:19 PM

Gainel
Rose Bride
Registered: 07-08-2010
Posts: 116

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

Android raptor wrote:

Looks like you've never had to deal with self-esteem so cripplingly low it warps your perception on life that you do things like, say, try and bring your friend down for "no reason". You're lucky. Oh and believe me, someone like Shiori probably wakes up every day with those exact messages about herself playing on loop in her head. Stuff like that has a nasty way of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't mean to be rude or start a fight, but you're assuming a bit of a lot here. My disgust for Shiori is partially based on my own experiences with "cripplingly low self-esteem". But honestly, I see no reason for a mature, intelligent person to dump on themselves every day unless they have a chemical imbalance in their brain. It's true that this sort of experience can ruin your life and make you miserable, but it is often self-inflicted. It can be impressed upon one by feelings of inferiority or real insistence from another that one is inferior, but everyone does have the ability to recognize their competence and beauty - they either just don't realize it or refuse to recognize it.

Let's not get into personal views here, please. I really don't want to get into a flame war. These are my views, and I'm not trying to force them on anyone else, just state them.


Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing not to put it on a fruit salad.

Offline

 

#85 | Back to Top11-04-2011 10:35:00 AM

SaionjixAnthy
Mikage Mistruster
From: dueling arena
Registered: 10-01-2011
Posts: 64
Website

Re: Who's Your Least Favorite Character?

Tokiko was a very stupid woman. I HATE her. I wanted to strangle her. Not only did she do exactly what Akio told her to (one of the 100 boys commented on how Akio sent her to Nemuro to get him to work harder), she betrayed the man who was working to save her brother. She's so weak-minded that she had no idea what set Nemuro off. She slapped him in front of the burned-down building like she wasn't to blame.


"The bells signal the start of the duel, Anthy! You forget yourself."

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement