This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top11-13-2006 11:57:09 PM

Suyo
Tenjou Tilter
From: Washington
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 82

Relation with the Duels

Do any of you relate to any of the duels?

I relate to Juri's first duel, Shiori's, and deffinantly Wakaba's.

Juri's because I, to, want to disprove something to the extent of "miracles"
Shiori's..actually, im not sure exactly why.. O_o

But Wakaba's.. "Special" people looking down on all the rest..I'd love to get rid of this Cast system...


May those who accept their fate be granted happiness. May those who defy it be granted Glory.

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#2 | Back to Top11-14-2006 01:57:18 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Relation with the Duels

The duel I relate most to isn't an official one - it's Ruka and Juri's duel, specifically because I'm more both of them than I am either one of them. I didn't believe in miracles until a stubborn friend who loved me showed me that they could exist, even if I didn't understand them.

I also seem to have a bit of a Florence Nightingale complex, focussing on other people's problems as a way of escaping from my own. I see people I care about get self-destructive and I get more angry than sympathetic - sometimes I wish I had the guts to do the kind of thing that Ruka did, because cruel as he was he pushed Juri to open her eyes to reality.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#3 | Back to Top11-14-2006 05:44:25 PM

Suyo
Tenjou Tilter
From: Washington
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 82

Re: Relation with the Duels

Quick question - Does anyone know the names to all the duels? so far I have this:


Saionji – Friendship
Saionji – Choice
Miki – Reason
Juri – Love
Nanami – Adoration
Touga – Conviction
Touga – Self

Kanae - Alienation
Kozue - Attachment
Shiori – Inferiority
Mitsuru – Impatience
Wakaba – Limit
Keiko – Inferior
Mikage – Resolution

Saionji – Posessiveness
Ruka – Lamentation
Nanami – insecurity


May those who accept their fate be granted happiness. May those who defy it be granted Glory.

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#4 | Back to Top11-14-2006 09:03:08 PM

ZSPACE
Touga Topper
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 57

Re: Relation with the Duels

I relate to the duel in episode 12. I remember a time, long ago, when I had to fight for myself ( me fighting against all odds to show the world what i am made of ). I realized, I wont give up no matter what.

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#5 | Back to Top11-14-2006 10:08:11 PM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: Relation with the Duels

Suyo wrote:

Quick question - Does anyone know the names to all the duels? so far I have this:


Saionji – Friendship
Saionji – Choice
Miki – Reason
Juri – Love
Nanami – Adoration
Touga – Conviction
Touga – Self

Kanae - Alienation
Kozue - Attachment
Shiori – Inferiority
Mitsuru – Impatience
Wakaba – Limit
Keiko – Inferior
Mikage – Resolution

Saionji – Posessiveness
Ruka – Lamentation
Nanami – insecurity

I think the only ones officially named (i.e. in series) are those of the first arc. I'd desperately love to know all of the oficial names, if they exist, for the sake of icon-making. And I love the French names. emot-keke They seem to fit with the series, and give this overarching feel to all of the duels... as if a real record was being kept somewhere.


http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m526/aines_pixels/mikageirgsig02-2012.png

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#6 | Back to Top11-15-2006 07:47:35 AM

Ger
Rose Smilee
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 139
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Mikage's duel, oddly enough. I suppose this is why he's my favorite.

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#7 | Back to Top11-15-2006 05:54:51 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Oh man, definitely Wakaba's. When she's screaming about special people thinking they can walk all over everyone else? Ouch. OUCH. OWWWWWWWWWWW

Also, in a more general sense, Saionji's. I suppose specifically the third. Possession and pride. Yep, that's me.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#8 | Back to Top11-15-2006 09:41:31 PM

Ivy-chan
Unfulfilled Juror
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 232

Re: Relation with the Duels

Nanami's final duel, when she says that she wants to surpass everything she ever knew and everything she's ever been.


If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants.
-Isaac Newton

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#9 | Back to Top11-16-2006 06:48:18 AM

Sanguine_Rose
Juri Jeerer
From: UK
Registered: 10-24-2006
Posts: 47

Re: Relation with the Duels

When I was in High School, I would say that Keiko's duel really reflected my feelings. But now the duel which makes me cry from watching it has to be Nanami's final duel. It makes me feel so bad when she says the she couldn't bare to be like everyone else, another one of Touga's unanswered phone calls.

Though the Ruka/Jury duels leave me speechless. So pretty and so deeply upsetting.


When Patrick Stewart says "Come", WE ALL COME.

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#10 | Back to Top11-17-2006 03:32:35 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
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Re: Relation with the Duels

I'd have to say it can relate to Shiori, Wakaba, Keiko, and Nanami.

Shiori- "Because I know! She isn't the person everyone thinks she is!" Just because of how strange everything is leading up to Shiori's duel, I guess I can relate to her feelings. I like her in the elevator more than in the duel though. She rocked that elevator man, made all the other Black Rose Duellists look calm. I completely get how jealousy can lead to resentment. I'm pretty weak minded, were I in Ohtori, I would definately have been a Black Rose Duellist.

Wakaba- "You never cared at all about us! You trample us into the dust!" I cry EVERY SINLGE TIME. Her duel is just so tragic, I know everyone can agree. I feel like Wakaba a lot sometimes, I just want to destroy everyone who ruined me. The fight to be better than you are is unfruitful. I guess we all learn that.

Keiko- "I...I understand. Nanami is the REAL vermin!" Isn't it weird that I like both Keiko and Nanami? Hmm. Anywho, I'm still very much like Keiko. Wanting something out of your reach. Something you can never be good enough for. I love Nanami, but I can relate to Keiko.

Nanami- "I will surpass what I am, what I was, everything!" I love Nanami so much. Kitten killers need love too. The way that she desires to surpass it all is similar to all her connections. Keiko wanted to be good enough[...and kill Nanami], Mitsuru wanted to be an adult, ect. They all want to be something they aren't, but moreover, to be rid of what they are. Nanami is so passionate. Call her a bitch all you want, I find her admirable.


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#11 | Back to Top12-11-2006 02:16:40 PM

StarlightArcher
Miki Molester
From: Texas
Registered: 12-06-2006
Posts: 30

Re: Relation with the Duels

I actually find that I sympathize with Utena, especially with her behavior in the first episode- the duel for friendship. Leave it to a naive muskateer like me to waltz in and threaten to kick the Kendo team captain's butt. Especially for the sake of a friend.

Time and again, anyone watching my life can see that my claws come out quickest when someone special to me is treated unkindly. And, with my short fuse, it's been known to be a blood bath at times. (bad archer...bad!)

The other duel in which I most identified with Utena was her duel with Mikage. "Meet me tomorrow in the dueling arena, and I'll show you I'm nothing like you" Many of the major decisions in my life have been made to prove to people that I'm better than them. And that they couldn't possibly identify with someone like me.

Only to realize sometime later, that we're more alike that I want anyone to know. Utena's quest for a noble heart is something I've desired my whole life. Not to be the one to save princesses, but for the sake of being noble itself.

Most times people will say they connect with the main character, but in my case I realized that in many ways I was Utena-like. Naive, romantic, idealistic, quick to fight for the under dog, and caught in that strange paradox of wanting to be both a prince & a princess simultaneously.


Why yes, I am made of Fabulous!

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#12 | Back to Top12-11-2006 03:51:43 PM

Syna
Rose Bride
From: Never-Neverland
Registered: 12-03-2006
Posts: 105
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Part of the reason I love this show is that they can take a character like Nanami and make her so sympathetic and tragic and admirable. Another count for her last duel, for me. "I'll surpass my brother, everything I am..." I've felt like that before, that incredible shame at finding you care more than someone else does, and the desire to become more than you are and overcome it, to become better. 

Miki/Kozue, too, because they are desperate to regain something that is lost to them forever. "Let the rest of the world disappear."

I'm also with StarlightArcher; I sympathize with Utena. On her end, I sympathized with the duels with Touga, Saionji, Mikage... It's a combination of admiration, and the fact I think she is one of the only characters I've encountered who really embodies the issues with my gender that I've had, my gullibility, a desire to be a noble fairytale figure, and a desire, I guess, for friendship, to help people. It's as silly as it sounds, but hey - didn't you know, I'm a fool? :)

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#13 | Back to Top12-11-2006 04:01:26 PM

Sevelle
Yaoi Pet #2
From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
Posts: 1615

Re: Relation with the Duels

Well just getting out of High School and into the some what more real world, I think I more attached to the final duel: Revolution. Which I guess everybody, in a way, is somewhat connected with it. It was the duel in which both Utena and Anthy got their freedom from Akio, who was trying to stay attached to his coffin world so he probably didn’t have to deal with the real horrors of the outside one.

High School was in the perception that nothing else mattered but their petty little lives. ‘Oh I must date him because he throws the most amazing parties!’ or ‘I must have a Kate Spade or Dooney and Bourke purse because they are the it thing.’ (I shall not comment on the fact, that either of the purses are a real waste in the Fashion industry.) But the real heart breaker of the entire thing was that I was so afraid of being an outcast in school that I wanted to secure a place in the hierarchy, and I did . . . well at least got to a point where people didn’t mess much with me.

But towards the end I discovered there was more to life then beer and badly quilted bags. (Like Couture Gowns and Skyy.) So I revolutionized my life and got out of there, not lamenting those halls like I thought I would.


sometimes you make me feel
like I’m living at the edge of the world
"it's just the way I smile"
you said

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#14 | Back to Top12-11-2006 04:29:40 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Relation with the Duels

Sevelle wrote:

But towards the end I discovered there was more to life then beer and badly quilted bags. (Like Couture Gowns and Skyy.) So I revolutionized my life and got out of there, not lamenting those halls like I thought I would.

Yeah, the Revolution duel certainly seems like one most people can relate to, although it would seem an unfortunate portion of the population regards things like high school to have been the best years of their lives (if this were true, I would surely have offed myself by now! what a horrible thing it would be if high school were the highlight!). Its amazing what leaving your coffin can do for yourself as a whole - suddenly all the silly little things don't matter any more. I basically aired my dirty laundry to a group of about thirty people or so (oh, the power of alcohol!), and afterwards for a brief moment I was concerned, but then I realized - I'm gone! It doesn't matter, who cares? I don't, I'm leaving this place behind!

I can definitely relate to Utena's duels, the first in particular - I'm definitely the type to jump to defend a friend. I also relate to Juri's first duel, since I can think of times where I did something to show how naive or foolish a person was being. And, like many of the others, I can relate to Nanami's final duel - finding out you care about a perosn a lot more than they care about you is extremely painful, and I doubt there is anyone who has never experienced the feeling of needing to be become better than ever before.

Y'know, if you think about it, Juri's final duel is very vaguely similar to the Revolution duel - Juri realizes the dueling doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things, and she also realizes Shiori isn't going to return her feelings and that its time to move on. Her coffin has already started to get its lid lifted before Utena goes to the Revolution duel (although, actually, it would seem everyone's has, but I think Juri's is most noticeable from her final duel onwards).


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."

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#15 | Back to Top12-12-2006 02:04:42 AM

Frosty
Everyone's Best Friend
From: United States
Registered: 11-16-2006
Posts: 1269
Website

Re: Relation with the Duels

I'll third Archer in the relating to Utena comments... as in, jumping into the duel with Saionji. My most personally cherished personality trait would be loyalty, it's how I define myself. I *must* defend my loved ones.

Wakaba's duel breaks my heart. Such a sweet person need not feel so unloved. Which, unfortunately, there are so many sweet people in real life suffering the same way.

Although it is not a duel, it does seem like a mild 'fight', the Utena-pulling-Anthy-from-falling-to-her-doom scene, where, instead of grabbing Anthy and coddling her, "Poor baby," she kind of screams at her that, "You'd better get back here and face this!" That's what I do, yank self-destructive friends up by their collars and spur them forward. (out of love) I hope it's helpful... which brings me to Revolution duel, the mind game, in the before the start of the duel, when Akio questions Utena's nobility & points out her mistakes. She thought she was a good person, striving for a noble goal, but didn't that prideful attitude count against her? I treasure my ideals so much, I rarely notice the holes and who knows if they would crumble if they were challenged? By the end of Revolution, Utena's "code" was challenged, she dropped all pretense and found freedom. I can only hope that I'll have the same result.


Just remember that the things you put into your head are there forever, he said. You might want to think about that. / You forget some things, don't you? / Yes. You forget what you want to remember and you remember what you want to forget.

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#16 | Back to Top12-12-2006 03:31:35 AM

Epi_lepsia
Tragedian
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
Website

Re: Relation with the Duels

Wakaba's duel is just shocking, i put that duel in my very first place, when Wakaba screams to Utena with her hair in her hand...  Second place, probably Mikage's. ANd third place, Juri's first duel, the end was just perfect for her, i don't see any other duel that ends up like that one, plus, Juri's fight way is very rude, strong, but subtle. I was amazed when she seized Utena's waist and pushed her against the floor.

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#17 | Back to Top12-13-2006 05:45:11 PM

Sevelle
Yaoi Pet #2
From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
Posts: 1615

Re: Relation with the Duels

Wakaba's duel always gets me in tear mode and Juri's last, why must they be so sad!?!?!


sometimes you make me feel
like I’m living at the edge of the world
"it's just the way I smile"
you said

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#18 | Back to Top12-13-2006 08:57:00 PM

Alexa
Anthy Assailer
Registered: 12-13-2006
Posts: 74

Re: Relation with the Duels

I'm gonna have to be typical and say Wakaba's duel.  I think that was the only one that made me teary upon first viewing.

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#19 | Back to Top03-17-2007 04:52:37 AM

garesuka
New Student
Registered: 03-17-2007
Posts: 6

Re: Relation with the Duels

I would say Kanae's duel, many times I've lent things to people only to have them ruined plus when someone bugs me, they really bug me school-devil

Also Mitsuru's duel cause people baby me alot and don't take me seriously.... its quite patronizing emot-frown

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#20 | Back to Top03-17-2007 06:35:29 AM

Nilamarthiel
The Icon Icon
From: Northern Michigan
Registered: 02-05-2007
Posts: 3972
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Of course I relate with Wakaba's duel. Oh it breaks my heart how much.

I also relate with Kozue's duel. Of course, it isn't for my brother, but for my mother, and I don't have that incestuous feeling for mum, either... but I definately relate. 'My mother and I are the only ones that are worthy of existance.' 'I won't tolerate anyone who would hurt my mother.' 'Lately she's been drifting further and further towards my brother and two sisters -- further and further away from me!'

And such.

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#21 | Back to Top03-17-2007 02:03:49 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Millionthing the Wakaba duel. I burst out into tears in the middle of it-- during the part where she says something like 'You use the gifts you were born with to walk all over everyone else!' It was chilling. I started to cry.

Strangely enough, I used to relate very well to Utena's second duel with Touga. That sense of fighting to recover something that was important to you will be a constant companion for me, I think.


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#22 | Back to Top03-17-2007 03:04:58 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Like a lot of people here I will have to say Wakaba's duel was like a vicious little whisper at the back of my eyes the whole way through, the first time I saw it. I was also particularly affected by Juri and Nanami's second duels -- the first because there is nothing as awful as someone kicking you in the head for your own good (because of the fact it hurts so much, and some of that is because they care enough about you to do it), the second because like Nanami I have the habit of haring off like a massive drama queen when upset and making things worse before they can get better. And while I have never gone about drowning kittens, I have suffocated enough relationships with people before realising what I had actually done to realise what that can be an analogy of. Argh. emot-gonk

Right, it's back to reading creepy murder books staring Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud for me. Go figure. school-freud


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

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#23 | Back to Top03-17-2007 03:43:56 PM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6342
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Re: Relation with the Duels

I can relate a lot to Wakaba and Shiori, especially during college times.
I can never understand why I am to be looked down upon just because my principles and beliefs don't match with the ones who most people would consider as the "Elite" of this dumb social food chain. And, the friends I made in college, they would be nice to me, but it made me feel disgusted because in doing so, they treat me as an inferior who can't do anything myself. Their kindness, then, no matter what their motives are, immediately turns into something of a pitiable charity in my eyes, not because they're doing this because they like me, not that I'd ever know.

And, I second Yasha's comment about Utena's second duel about getting back the "Soi". But, I personally like the most the final duel of the series because that is when Utena can actually live outside herself as her motive changes from being a prince to freeing someone else who's suffering. I wish I can be able to do that for someone else some day.

Last edited by Hiraku (03-17-2007 03:45:39 PM)

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#24 | Back to Top03-17-2007 03:56:49 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
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Re: Relation with the Duels

Suyo wrote:

Keiko – Inferior

Keiko's duel was 'Dependence', for the record.


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#25 | Back to Top03-17-2007 04:27:13 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: Relation with the Duels

dollface wrote:

Suyo wrote:

Keiko – Inferior

Keiko's duel was 'Dependence', for the record.

Actually, there is no accepted set of duel names for the BRS. This question has come up before, and I could not find the fanfic writers' version of the duel names, but I do have an artbook with what appear to be duel names for the BRS. I'm not sure whether you want to consider them canon or not.

The duel names from the artbook are:

Kanae - alieation
Kozue - attache
Shiori - jalousis
Tsuwabuki - impatience
Wakaba - limite
Keiko - dependance

Reposted from this thread.


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