satyreyes wrote:

Riri-kins wrote:

Brown hair is code for vanilla sexual preferences in Utena. This especially applies to girls. The only straight girls in Utena who are not in love with their siblings have brown hair like Tokiko, Keiko, and countless fangirls. Kanae is the sole exception.

I dunno.  Wakaba may not be in love with her sibling, but if she has vanilla sexual preferences then my kinkdar is nonexistent.

We've establishes that Wakaba is related to Mako from Kill La Kill, for all we know they are siblings and who knows what may not go on between them.

Nocturnalux wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

Riri-kins wrote:

Brown hair is code for vanilla sexual preferences in Utena. This especially applies to girls. The only straight girls in Utena who are not in love with their siblings have brown hair like Tokiko, Keiko, and countless fangirls. Kanae is the sole exception.

I dunno.  Wakaba may not be in love with her sibling, but if she has vanilla sexual preferences then my kinkdar is nonexistent.

We've establishes that Wakaba is related to Mako from Kill La Kill, for all we know they are siblings and who knows what may not go on between them.

Or, at the very least, they both crush on members of the same sex hard.

Forgive me if i'm posting in the wrong thread, i've never done this before....but I actually think Tenoh Haruka from the manga Sailor Moon would fit in soooo damn well in ohtori academy. I mean think about it she races cars, looks and dresses like a prince and even has a fencing sword!

SERIOUSLY! I think she would work so well as a duelist, I also have a huge crush on her but yeah..just sayin'

I'm sure a version of this has been advanced before, still:

Mikage is Utena's *son*. Given how strange the time flow at Ohtori is and since Mikage in particular has experienced that firsthand, it would not be all that strange if he came from the future, somehow. Or it could be that in the future his research has developed to the point that it allowed him to travel back in time but the first experiment goes awry and he ends up missing his mother's teenage years by going too far back into the past- that would be his Nemuro era- and only later does he fix it and manage to get into the right time frame where he then becomes Mikage.

The reason why he sees Tokiko in Utena is because he is subconsciously aware of that Utena is his mother and Tokiko is his motherly reference.  Which makes his reaction when he sees Tokiko and Akio doubly complicated and ever so Freudian.

His memory confusion results precisely from hopping all over time so that he no longer knows who Utena is. As to just what happened to Utena, she died when Mikage was still very little. Mikage would have an idealized and very sweet notion of his mother.

As to who the father may be, I'd actually say Akio. Seen in such a light, the reason why Utena disappears from Ohtori is because she is pregnant. And it explains while Mikage has not aged after he graduates and leaves Ohtori even though Tokiko has, it's not just Ohtori's weird time flow but his Akio inherited genes that keep him from aging.


For extra pathos, Mikage's original motivation in going back to the past was to keep Utena from sleeping with Akio and thus erase himself from existence. Considering how anime mothers have a thing for becoming very feeble after giving birth and only living long enough to die tragically in their children's infancy, it's entirely credible that Mikage would see his own existence as a bad thing. Or who knows, maybe she even gets run over by a certain car.

Extra bonus points if he's been on a loop for ages on end. He'd start by trying to kill Akio, only to have it backfire time and time again, then move on to trying to warn Utena, only to have *that* backfire just as badly; to eventually trying to tell her about condoms, all to no avail. Do this enough times and sooner or later your sanity begins to slip.

The reason why as Mikage is much more sultry and able and willing to manipulate others is because he is becoming closer to Akio while as Nemuro he had his mother's innocence and difficulty in reading people. There may also be a repressed desire to seek approval from his father despite hating him. By using some of the same methods, Mikage would be trying to get Akio to acknowledge him as his son. Also, being a pragmatic idealist, he would probably reach the conclusion that his mother's nobility got her nothing in the end while his father is, for better or worse, the one with the actual power.

As for his obsession for killing the Rose Bride, she represents all the women his father cheated his mother on while colluding with him in order to hurt. In a warped way, Anthy is 'all the other women' who break apart happy families and the 'bad friend' who pimps out their sweet friends.
This is also why Kanae is treated more viciously than the other BR duelists. In this trippy theory Anthy!Mamiya is a complete projection of Mikage's inner desires, a shadow of a shadow, and if he displays nothing short of anger in pinning the black rose on Kanae it's not because Anthy hates her but because Mikage does so. It's along the same lines as how Anthy acted as Saionji's bride but more extreme.

Kanae is in a way even worse, she is usurping Utena's rightful role as 'the princess' by being Akio's fiancée. By SKU standards, Kanae is unknowingly forcing Utena to become a witch. Since this is completely unacceptable to Mikage, she gets treated with a kind of personal rancor- via Anthy!Mamiya- that does not extend to anyone else.
It also explains why she is borderline catatonic last time we see her. The Black Rose effects never wear off on her because Mikage really wants her to suffer and Akio, being Akio, does not bother fixing her even though he could easily do it.

Why does Tatsuya escape becoming a BR duelist? Because some of his spiel about 'protecting' Wakaba's purity resounded with him at an elemental level. That's essentially what Mikage is doing as well, down deep, so even though he knows there's much more going on he still lets him off the hook.

...and I'm done.

Last edited by Nocturnalux (07-14-2015 01:23:08 AM)

Who needs an applause emote when we have a we can wave in tribute?

Nux (Doc Nock?  Nightlight?), that is totally sweet.

Nocturnalux wrote:

Extra bonus points if he's been on a loop for ages on end. He'd start by trying to kill Akio, only to have it backfire time and time again, then move on to trying to warn Utena, only to have *that* backfire just as badly; to eventually trying to tell her about condoms, all to no avail. Do this enough times and sooner or later your sanity begins to slip.

I admit to having a weakness for the Groundhog-Day plot found in certain anime (which I can't name because it's a spoiler in every example I can think of) and in, uh, Groundhog Day, which is one of the finest movies of all time.  Also a Star Trek episode.  Why does Mikage burn down the building?  And having forgotten who Utena is to him, does this all end with him killing his father and marrying his mother?  It does seem like if anyone in the show had Oedipal issues, it would be your headcanon Mikage.

To me, there's an unwritten law that says that if you can't die, then you can't have children.  You don't get to opt out of only the terminal half of the circle of life.  So my headcanon is that Anthy and Akio, at least while they are immortal, are sterile.  But if they're not sterile, I love your story about Mikage and his teen mom and deadbeat dad.

satyreyes wrote:

Who needs an applause emote when we have a we can wave in tribute?

Nux (Doc Nock?  Nightlight?), that is totally sweet.

Nocturnalux wrote:

Extra bonus points if he's been on a loop for ages on end. He'd start by trying to kill Akio, only to have it backfire time and time again, then move on to trying to warn Utena, only to have *that* backfire just as badly; to eventually trying to tell her about condoms, all to no avail. Do this enough times and sooner or later your sanity begins to slip.

I admit to having a weakness for the Groundhog-Day plot found in certain anime (which I can't name because it's a spoiler in every example I can think of) and in, uh, Groundhog Day, which is one of the finest movies of all time.  Also a Star Trek episode.  Why does Mikage burn down the building?  And having forgotten who Utena is to him, does this all end with him killing his father and marrying his mother?  It does seem like if anyone in the show had Oedipal issues, it would be your headcanon Mikage.

To me, there's an unwritten law that says that if you can't die, then you can't have children.  You don't get to opt out of only the terminal half of the circle of life.  So my headcanon is that Anthy and Akio, at least while they are immortal, are sterile.  But if they're not sterile, I love your story about Mikage and his teen mom and deadbeat dad.

for the win! Goes to show that sleep deprivation makes for interesting theories.

As to why Mikage would burn down the building, it could be that a major sacrifice is required to power the time travel mechanism. But at the same time it might have been a way of rebelling against Akio's authority. After all, Ohtori is Akio's playground and Nemuro Memorial Hall is part of it. Since Mikage cannot destroy Akio's tower (odds are he tried it at some point or another) he'd opt for destroying part of Ohtori's property via arson.

Mikage really lends himself to Oedipal issues, doesn't he. I can't see him ever marrying Utena if only because she would not go along with it.

I too always thought that Akio and Anthy were sterile but not so much because they are immortal as much as because SKU is a warped fairytales and children are never born to fairytale protagonists. The fairytale often begins with the birth of a princess but it ends before a new generation is born, it may be implied that children appear somewhere along the line of the 'happy ever after' but they are not mentioned.

In this scenario I can imagine Mikage trying to talk Utena into having an abortion during some of the loops much to her 'wtf' reaction. He'd try to rationally explain to her that a zygote does not a human make in order to better convince her. And of course it would fail spectacularly, odds are it would end up with Utena going on about the miracle of life and whatnot. It'd end with Utena slapping him hard across the face (as per usual, actually) as I bet Utena would so not agree to such suicidal insanity. This once Mikage manages to actually convince her he is telling the truth. 'I'm your son from the future' sounds a tad too unbelievable.

I also wonder how Utena would raise him. I can see her going to school plays and whatnot in her boyish shorts and encouraging Mikage at every turn. She'd buy him a bunch of games and end up playing with them herself. Mikage's teachers would advise putting him in a school for gifted children or to having him skip grades only to have her go all, 'Why are you treating Sou-chan like a freak of nature! Sure, he's smart but he's just a normal boy. He should be out playing with his friends instead of cramming all day long!"

There's also the question of what Utena would tell Mikage about his father. I suspect she'd be very vague about all things Akio related.

Once Utena dies (maybe in an elevator?) little Mikage might even hide inside an extra coffin for a while. And there he'd come up with the idea of going back in time, either on his own or with some help from Akio. Princely Akio could easily reinforce the notion that if Mikage had never been born Utena would still be alive and well.

Anthy should come into play at some point since she leaves searching for Utena shortly after Utena herself disappeared. For some some reason Anthy is too late, Utena has already died and Mikage has shut out the world in order to fully dedicate himself to his time travel plan.

zeedikay wrote:

I just remembered that there was a previous concept for the show that had Utena working at a day-care and Mikage was a kid, also she ended up being his and/or everyone's mother maybe. It was posted on this forum somewhere, but I can't find it anywhere.

I'd pay to read that!

^ ^ ^
Glorious discussion was glorious!

I can imagine kids bullying Mikage over his being creepy only to then meet with 'accidents' much to the mystification of Utena. Whatever could be happening to her son's classmates.
"Woah, Sou-chan, you better watch out! Seems like a piano fell on one of your friends the other day. What are the odds of that! Be careful when walking under windows."

Mikage as the spawn of Utena x Akio?
That's messed up

Nocturnalux wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

Mikage as the spawn of Utena x Akio?
That's messed up

But potentially cute, in a way?
As in, imagine the cast taking turns babysitting. Saionji would decide that pink haired little boys need to become manly by doing kendo. He'd dress up little Mikage in kendo gear and rant about 'being a man'. And later he'd bake Mikage a poptart but be all super tsundere about it. 'It's not like I baked this scrumptious poptart for you, you brat. I just happened to have an extra one. So eat it an be thankful! Know that it's not as if I care for annoying brats- or anything!'

Seriously, your idea sounds like something Ikuhara would do in an SKU movie reboot. You know like the weird time skip they did with the new NGE movies? I could so see this happening.

Tsundere Saionji
There goes my heart

gBot wrote:

Oh, I don't think Ikuhara would fuck up just like Gainax did in the latest Evangelion movies.
Either way, without Tomoko Kawakami there's no hope for any more Utena related stuff emot-frown ...
not that we really need more, to be honest, since we are still debating about the series after some many years after its release.

It's probably over for Utena herself, but how about a spinoff for a secondary character(s)? How about sitting Midorikawa-san down for another session?
Hope lives forever!

Regarding the Black Rose arc. It is the only arc that deals with the dueling system itself, it's past and possible origins. Another bit of personal canon is that Anthy and Akio are both extremely long living (possibly immortal) members of an ancient civilization, maybe even demigods like Gilgamesh or Arjuna. This ancient civilization had extremely advanced technology that could manipulate even the flow of time itself, but for some reason Anthy and Akio either don't have the knowledge to operate it (they were shunned and possibly exiled, and thus forbidden from using the tech?), or decide not to deal with it directly to not get exposed and reveal their true nature to regular humans. And what they wanted to do is utilize this tech to control the flow of time in Ohtori and make it independent from the outside world, making cycles restartable, resulting in a more 'economical' dueling process, with a personalized approach to each candidate. There are also fewer duelists, and the reversible flow of time would enable them to use the same people over and over again, since the previous cycle gets erased from the duelists' memory. It is possible that they tried out other systems and concluded this would be their best bet. Unable to interfere themselves, they use Nemuro for his superior intellect, and set things up for him to have a very personal motivation to finish his research (genius gets bored easily) , since he is led to believe the results could halt the flow of time for a single person, and continues believing so as Mikage. All the while, and unknowingly to him, his research is used by Akio and Anthy to optimize the dueling system.

It is possible Nemuro found out, by accident or otherwise, that the tech is powered by mass human sacrifice, so his burning of the hall and the deaths of 100 boys is what is powering the duels that we know and love. It successfully alters the flow of time in Ohtori, indicated by unchanging seasons (it snowed in Nemuro's flashback), the death of the real Mamiya and Tokiko's aging in the outside world. The hall being a ruin after Mikage's defeat could be Akio and Anthy's final punishment and mockery, as it's now the only part of the school returned to the regular flow of time, the last memory of the man who was once Professor Nemuro becoming a testament to the passage of time and decay, what he sacrificed so much to defeat, and it also becomes a testament to his crime.

And what Anthy(in guise of Mamiya) and Akio did to him in BRA is getting rid of someone who knows too much by essentially making him doubt his sanity and reality itself, the worst thing they can do to a scientist and rationalist like him.

This might be a theory established long ago, but sort of putting stuff together by myself was a fun experience.

Anthy isn't really indian.
If she was to have an existing genealogy at all, her ancestors would be pretty much any non-white race in existence, with prevalence on races that have ever been opressed by white man, to fit her opressed status.
Basically, she has a bit of blood of every race that her image aludes to.
Indian bindi
Appearance that's more african than indian
Greek name with dark but not black, curly hair

And as a mixed race people are usually very attractive, being such a mix as that make her stunningly beautiful so much that every man wants her, every woman hates her.
But being feminine and girly, and not a butch like Utena or Juri, she has no means to defend herself from this hatred, or even deflect it. So in RGU world, she has to suffer for it.
That explains her librarian mannerisms - her true personality is of that playful and flirtatious concubine type like she is in the movie, but she learned to surpress that as a manner of self defence to reduce her attractiveness and prevent unwanted attention.
So when she has more control of her life in the movie, she has no need to pretend to be someone else, she reverts to her true personality and becomes the woman she was always meant to be.

Also - Chu Chu isn't just any random monkey. He's actually Anthy's son. Her and Akio's.
It makes a twisted sense that if a witch copulated with the devil, she'd give birth to an animal.
Akio hates Chu Chu as the embodiment of his fall from grace. Chu Chu himself doesn't mind returning the feelings.
Anthy herself doesn't mind whether her son is a monkey or anything - she just loves him unconditionally like any good parent would.
But so the world doesn't scorn him as a bastard, she has to hide their true relation, and pretend they're "friends" - as a means to protect him, too.
Also it wouldn't do for the game if the duelists were outright horrified of her, but that reasoning is supplementary and not primary.

Also - Juri doesn't really have a sister. She made that up to escape the guilt of causing that boy to die, and ever being such an incompetent girl that can't take care of herself. So it wasn't her at all, bit was that obnoxious sister that doesn't value other people, and forgets them as if they were nothing, so Juri hates her - good thing they don't communicate anymore, and she can just pretend the sister doesn't exist anymore... But she totally exists in reality, honest!
And it was the sister who's the incompetent girl that can't take a simple row on a boat without someone dying for her. Juri herself isn't that girl at all, she will do everything to improve herself further and further just to prove it.
So she could pretend that incident didn't really happen, or at least, not to her.
Would also explain her love for sick puppies - she sees in them who she used to be.

Last edited by Sailor Mademoiselle (01-19-2016 07:53:31 PM)