This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#26 | Back to Top03-04-2014 10:34:41 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Age for Utena?

Well, I showed it to my 12 year old sister, but then I'm a terrible person.

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#27 | Back to Top03-05-2014 03:53:12 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: Age for Utena?

The show is pretty not nuanced at all about how it presents the act of sex. The psychological dynamics are probably what fly by pretty easily if you're a child. (Akio and Touga especially.) I wonder about the cultural/moral ones--do these kids know it's all fucked that Akio sleeps with his sister? Or do they sympathize with Nanami's hero worship of her brother? Because the latter relationship especially does seem like a trope--anime doesn't really back down from the whole maybesortoffeelslikeincest thing. Is it supposed to squick kids out, or be a release fantasy for their weird desire to bang their older siblings?


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#28 | Back to Top03-05-2014 04:02:33 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: Age for Utena?

Giovanna wrote:

Or do they sympathize with Nanami's hero worship of her brother?

My eldest niece really does cheer for Nanami, even though she knows she's in the wrong and mean, because she can empathize with her social/familial situation.

She doesn't really get overly emotional about most of the series, but there's a couple Nanami bits that made her cry.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#29 | Back to Top03-05-2014 08:49:23 AM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
Website

Re: Age for Utena?

I wonder about the cultural/moral ones--do these kids know it's all fucked that Akio sleeps with his sister? Or do they sympathize with Nanami's hero worship of her brother? Because the latter relationship especially does seem like a trope--anime doesn't really back down from the whole maybesortoffeelslikeincest thing. Is it supposed to squick kids out, or be a release fantasy for their weird desire to bang their older siblings?

The trope is (socially) Forbidden Love , which is rampant in Josei and the sophisticated end of Shoujo anime/manga.  The FB Trope commonly includes LGBT + Incest elements, and is used to put (both good and evil) characters in angsty, emotional situations that tug at the viewers' heartstrings.

And yes, kids totally knows it is wrong for Akio and Anthy to sleep with each other - especially in the mutually manipulative way that it happens.  It is there to disillusion viewers - who might otherwise think Akio is classy and Anthy pure - and force them to see these two as 'corrupted/perverted' 'adults' (despite their being 19 and 14 physically).  These characters are both 'against social norms'/ 'deviant', and thus 'dangerous'/'prone to be evil' as per shoujo tropes.

PS: Anthy is not presented as a 'child' despite her 14 yr old guise, thus why the character's mature voice and tone.  I would go further by elaborating on how her her turn as the openly malevolent 'Mamiya' is there to disqualify her as a 'damsel' and make plain her status as a 'villain', but that would be too derailing for this thread.


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#30 | Back to Top04-02-2014 03:53:49 PM

McGreddy
Saionji Slapper
From: Massachussetts
Registered: 03-31-2014
Posts: 21

Re: Age for Utena?

I first watched the show when I was 15, and I think that's a good age for it. You could start them at 12 or 13, but I think most of season 3 would make them very uncomfortable and possibly make them drop it all together.

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#31 | Back to Top05-09-2014 03:03:01 PM

Dognog
Friend, Perhaps
From: TN
Registered: 06-06-2011
Posts: 333

Re: Age for Utena?

Ah, well, I showed my sister (Toe) the show and the movie when she was 9... It was awesome, we watched it like two or three times together and always talked about it. Then again, I was also reluctant to show it to her friend of the same age because I didn't think it'd be right for her. My other sisters, who were 11 and 14 at the time, also watched it, and I was 17. So...yeah...I have no idea. I guess it just depends. And I still don't know how "deeply" any one of us understood it, but I spent a lot of time reading about it here while I watched it (7/8 times)


"DOGNOG: He's got a fiancee, hoes, and freaks with his sister. He is the original PIMP."

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