This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top11-14-2015 11:18:22 PM

CarolineWellwater
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 10-18-2015
Posts: 67

Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

(( Hey All,

Okay, so I've been doing some looking at the uniforms of the Student Council / Duelists, and here are some thoughts that I hope may generate some discussion.  I tried looking for previous iterations of this topic, but wasn't able to find any.  Anyway, here goes...

First, for the most part, the Student Council / Duelist uniforms are, generally, uniform, with regards to each other.  For the most part, each uniform consists of:
•    a white, blazer-type jacket with a central zipper
•    accents on the jacket (such as epilates and piping).  Question: Do the epilates equate to a "rank" of sorts?  Historically epilates were where officers wore their ranks, and the more elaborate the epilates, the higher the rank.
•    Fourrageré, the cord on uniform.  I did find out that historically / mythos says the cord used to be used to nail Soldiers who were considered unreliable into position, so they would be forced to fight.
•    Color accents / highlights match the hair color of the character; so Touga's is red, while Miki's is blue.

Now, there are some notable exceptions, those being:
•    Ruka's jacket is double-breasted, and appears to have a zipper to one side, instead of in the middle. 
o    Question: Why the difference?  Possible Answer: He does seem to have a type of dual-nature, which is also reflected in his two-tone hair color as well.
•    Nanami's jacket is yellow, as are her shorts / pantaloons, and she lacks white altogether.  However, she has cavalier-style boots that are black in color.  Oddly, her shorts are also shown to have functional pockets.
o    Question: Why the yellow color?  Possible Answer: To reflect her immaturity, as yellow is "immature" and also alludes to "baby ducks", and dusty-yellow can also represent jealousy … however, it seems to obvious an answer.  (But it also is supported by the idea of the black-boots offering a spot of elegance and "swan-legs" to the ugly duckling… meaning maybe she still matures into something more beautiful than a duck). Yellow can also be "enlightenment", and Nanami does undergo some of the most distinct maturation during the series.
•    Utena has a solid black jacket, and red shorts.  When she becomes the Rose Prince, her jacket adds accessories and "frills".
o    Question: Why the black colored jacket?  Possible Answer: Black is the absence of color.  Maybe it is giving a subtle clue that Prince Utena is… fake or an illusion.
o    Question: Later on in the show, Utena wears a red sweater and black pants, reversing her color scheme.  Why? 
o    Follow-up Question: Is the red sweater from that scene, the same one she's given from Anthy during the Nanami Cow Bell episode?
o    Her uniform also does not match the color of her hair.  Question: While it could be because Utena's pink hair is supposed to contrast with her uniform, what other reasons are there?

Additional thoughts / questions about the various uniforms.

Touga has a white-red theme, which could imply "Akio-Light", "Lesser-Akio", or "Poor-Man's Akio", in that they have similar tastes and motivations, but Touga is a poor copy of Akio's abilities and machinations.  He also seems to be the one to "get out" of his uniform the most.

Saionji's uniform has a white-green theme, which could imply jealousy due to the green.   However, green is also the color of mature plants and trees, so maybe the green also reflects his own personal journey as he seems to become one of the handful of characters who question what is going on, and has a solid amount of maturation as well.  Saionji is also one of the few characters shown to have a second outfit, his kendo uniform.

Miki and Ruka both have blue predominately in their uniforms, but the effect feels very different.  Ruka's blue feels more mature and masculine, while Miki's, to me, feels more… sterile, cold, and distant.  Oddly, to me, Miki seems almost… lazy.  He had an amazing childhood, but… hasn't really done much since.  Ruka, on the other hand, is moving towards a definite goal.  Both color highlights match their hair as well; yet, Ruka does have a two-tone hair color, while everyone else's seems a solid color.

As an aside, Miki is also the only one shown consistently with an "accessory", his stopwatch.

One uniform color I don't understand is Juri's orange.  What I could find for Orange meanings doesn't seem to fit, unless that's the point.  It isn't the color… but… maybe the season?  Fall is "orange", and represents a change in feelings towards others.  It could also be the color of copper and its alloys.  Copper is a "masculine" metal, and, while valuable in what it can do and be used for, doesn't have the same "power" or "respect" as metals like Gold, Silver, or Platinum.  Question: Why the orange?

So… thoughts? ))

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#2 | Back to Top11-15-2015 08:25:44 AM

BunB
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 11-03-2015
Posts: 91

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

"black is the absence of color"

Is it really? I've heard people say that white is the absence of color.


Must the sign of the negative proposition be constructed by means of the sign of the positive? Why should one not be able to express the negative proposition by means of a negative fact?

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#3 | Back to Top11-16-2015 06:26:51 AM

Snow
Troublesome Insect
From: under the dogstar sail
Registered: 09-30-2013
Posts: 643

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

BunB wrote:

"black is the absence of color"

Is it really? I've heard people say that white is the absence of color.

White light is the combination of lights of different wavelengths. Black is the absence of light and thus absence of colour.

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#4 | Back to Top11-16-2015 06:40:59 AM

KissFromARose
Thorn of Death
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: 09-29-2008
Posts: 507

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

CarolineWellwater wrote:

o    Follow-up Question: Is the red sweater from that scene, the same one she's given from Anthy during the Nanami Cow Bell episode?

my brain just exploded. that would tooooottalllllyyyyyy make her wearing that sweater even worse. woooow. i never thought of that. Anthy made her that sweater and now this! ooo juicy.

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#5 | Back to Top11-16-2015 10:38:34 AM

BunB
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 11-03-2015
Posts: 91

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

Snow wrote:

BunB wrote:

"black is the absence of color"

Is it really? I've heard people say that white is the absence of color.

White light is the combination of lights of different wavelengths. Black is the absence of light and thus absence of colour.

Interesting. I learned something new today.


Must the sign of the negative proposition be constructed by means of the sign of the positive? Why should one not be able to express the negative proposition by means of a negative fact?

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#6 | Back to Top11-16-2015 12:06:25 PM

Nocturnalux
Qualified Duellist
From: Portugal
Registered: 09-10-2007
Posts: 741

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

CarolineWellwater wrote:

Her uniform also does not match the color of her hair.  Question: While it could be because Utena's pink hair is supposed to contrast with her uniform, what other reasons are there?

Neither does Mikage's which is deliberate as his outfit does much to mirror Utena's. It's interesting that Mikage's whole color scheme is more subdued than Utena's. The jacket is closer to dark blue as opposed to Utena's black and the hair, while pink, is a softer shade of pink. Mikage also has no epaulettes.

It probably had something to do with the fact that originally Utena's hair was yellow but even without that, a pink jacket would do something to diminish the crossdressing factor. Somehow I can't imagine that early scene with the prissy teacher annoying Utena over her wearing a boy's uniform if Utena's jacket had been pink. Technically the color is not relevant but she would not stand out as much as a girl wearing boy's clothes if her clothes were pink.

Of course, this being SKU, the color connotation can be subverted or at least re-interpreted. Nemuro wears pink fairly frequently, not to contest convention but probably because he has no conception of such things.

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#7 | Back to Top11-19-2015 06:52:12 PM

CarolineWellwater
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 10-18-2015
Posts: 67

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

(( Hey all,

Your replies are all pretty engaging.  Here are some more focused thoughts.  Sorry about the delay with them, or any echoing I do.

BunB,

As Snow stated, I learned that since Black absorbs all light, it has no color of its own.  While, since white reflects all lights, it's all colors. 

KissFromARose,

my brain just exploded

That just made my day!  emot-smile  I'm... probably overly nervous about posting some of my thoughts, as I guess since the shows been around for like 20 years, any thing I notice or see, has already been noticed or discussed already.  So... your head a-sploding from my question about the sweater made me grin from ear to ear.  Thank you very much for the boost.


Nocturnalux,

I didn't really include Mikage, as he wasn't really on the Student Council, while he was a Duelist.  Paralleling that idea, it was why I also didn't include Anthy's dueling dress, or the school uniforms themselves.  I also only partially counted Ruka's uniform, as it wasn't fully clear to me if he was on the Student Council or not.

Though... now that I give it a pause, is Anthy's dueling outfit a dress... or a gown?  It kinda looks more "dress"-like, than "gown"-like, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, overall, I was always of the thought that Mikage was foreshadowing how Utena could turn out.  I guess it reminded me a lot of the idea of taking a dark, twisted route.  They both were acting upon a memory that hasn't quite been remembered correctly.  They're both harboring a macguffin.  And they're both trying to accomplish a task that they don't really understand, but have fanatically devoted themselves to its completion.  Weirdly, the possibility of Dark-Utena always sort of reminded me of Dark-Saber from the Fate-universe.

Along the lines of Mikage though, what about the uniforms from those who are given the black roses?  Any thoughts on those Duelists?

All,

Thank you again for the input, everyone.  You guys have given me more to think about, and share with my friends here.  ))

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#8 | Back to Top11-19-2015 09:29:59 PM

Nocturnalux
Qualified Duellist
From: Portugal
Registered: 09-10-2007
Posts: 741

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

CarolineWellwater wrote:

Nocturnalux,

I didn't really include Mikage, as he wasn't really on the Student Council, while he was a Duelist.  Paralleling that idea, it was why I also didn't include Anthy's dueling dress, or the school uniforms themselves.  I also only partially counted Ruka's uniform, as it wasn't fully clear to me if he was on the Student Council or not.

Utena is not part of the Student Council either. But yes, Mikage is very much a counterpart to Utena and drawing parallels between the two is a world of fun. And when it comes a discussion of color schemes and clothes, it becomes almost mandatory as they have the same basic palette and even the outfits are very alike.
I wonder if the lack of epaulettes has something to do with the fact that Mikage did not view himself as a duelist. The black rose duelists all have them, as a sign of military rank it may be connected to acting as a duelist and actually fighting as opposed to what Mikage does which consists of making others do the dueling proper. But then again, Anthy does have epaulettes as does in her Mamiya-self so I could be mistaken.

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#9 | Back to Top12-04-2015 08:23:30 PM

CarolineWellwater
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 10-18-2015
Posts: 67

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

(( Noturnalux,

Sorry it took a while to get back to this.

You know, I never really thought about it, but... Mikage's uniform really does resemble Utena's to an uncomfortable and unsettling degree. 

Both have stylized cuffs (though the stylization is different).

Both have the same sort of cut for the blazer.

Both have a "cinch" around their waste; Utena's from the "feminized"-taper of her jacket, Mikage's from his belt.

Both have red accents.

Both have a mandarin collar with some flair on it.

Both have pockets located in the same, general, areas (where the hands rest, and on the upper breast area).

In some ways you can even compare Mikage's dark-blue jacket with Utena's black jacket as, sometimes, Black will fade into a dark blue.  Though... it also fades into charcoal, dark grey, and splotchy-cloudy grey too.

About the only differences I can see are Utena has decorative buttons, and gets the fourrageré and epilates when she does her dueling upgrade.

You know, until I went back and took a look at this, I probably would have never noticed how similar their costuming is which does allude to how similar both characters really are.  I guess I never really thought about it, because it was just so... standard feeling, if that makes sense.  To quote Sherlock Holmes, "It's so overt, it's covert".  Creepily similar.  ))

Last edited by CarolineWellwater (12-04-2015 08:26:55 PM)

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#10 | Back to Top12-05-2015 08:18:22 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 973

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

The whole point of Mikage is to deliberately mirror Utena, from hair color to his own little Rose 'Bride' and more similarities the more you look into it. He even brings attention to it himself. I think there's a creator commentary mentioning the similarities as well.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

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#11 | Back to Top12-05-2015 10:26:04 AM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 172

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

With all the comparisons with them in show, to their similar costume design, I can definitely see describing Mikage as an almost "washed-out" Utena, both conceptually and visually. They are great foils to each other, pun accidentally made and all.

Speaking about that, we could probably look at the rest of the Black Rose Duelists as well. Though they seem to have less of a cohesive theme when grouped together, (other than having a darker color scheme than the other duelists) there might be some worth comparing their uniforms to the student council's. Even if it ends up that most of the design choices were aesthetic choices.
http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Student_Council_Arc/04/Series_ep04_003.jpg?m=1380826063http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Black_Rose_Saga/15/Series_ep15_157.jpg?m=1380853336
Kozue, from what I gathered so far, seems to have a base color swap of her brother's uniform, with the addition of more epilates and binds.
(Also, I just noticed that Miki's lower right sleeve is blue. I honestly thought that was a coloring mistake at first.)

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Black_Rose_Saga/18/Series_ep18_160.jpg?m=1385778217http://www.history-of-american-wars.com/images/jagergreenRR.jpg
Also, Mitsuru almost looks like a tiny Hessian soldier, in terms of color scheme.

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#12 | Back to Top12-05-2015 01:43:13 PM

Chrome Homura
Poor Saionji :(
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: 06-07-2010
Posts: 518

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

I only just now noticed the fact that Kozue holds her sword in her left hand, mirroring Miki's style from the opposite direction. It's obviously a result of them simply mirroring the shot of Miki's stance, but also a subtle way of showing Kozue's perspective of her relationship with her twin. She knows they're pretty much on opposite ends of the spectrum in a lot of ways... then again, she could just be left-handed while Miki is right-handed. However, my headcanon is that they're both ambidextrous, and that Kozue deliberately wields Miki's heartsword with her hand opposite of Miki's because reasons...

Well, anyway. Another facet of the Council uniforms for the OP: With the exception of Touga, each has a sectioned color portion of their sleeve that matches their pants. Touga is also the only council member who doesn't wear colored pants to match his hair. The Black Rose uniforms all share a single-colored Jacket (with varying trim/epaulettes for each duelist) and white pants with the exception of Mitsuru, who gets black leggings with white shorts over them. I suspect the leggings/shorts combo is less about his gender and more of a subtle nod to his age.


I am no longer here. If you wish to find me, my discord username is Heroic_Spirit_Gomikubi.

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#13 | Back to Top12-06-2015 06:21:43 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2925

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

Chrome Homura wrote:

IThe Black Rose uniforms all share a single-colored Jacket (with varying trim/epaulettes for each duelist) and white pants with the exception of Mitsuru, who gets black leggings with white shorts over them. I suspect the leggings/shorts combo is less about his gender and more of a subtle nod to his age.

I think it's that PLUS his uniform mirroring Nanami's to an extent, as she doesn't wear the typical slacks/pants the other duelists wear. She and Tsuwabuki are wearing the same thing, a pair of shorts (hers much more fitted) with black tights.


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
Knows how to comfort me tonight.

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#14 | Back to Top12-07-2015 12:36:16 AM

Flah
Belladonna Buster
From: British Columbia
Registered: 09-05-2013
Posts: 211

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

Raven Nightshade wrote:

I think it's that PLUS his uniform mirroring Nanami's to an extent, as she doesn't wear the typical slacks/pants the other duelists wear. She and Tsuwabuki are wearing the same thing, a pair of shorts (hers much more fitted) with black tights.

I was under the impression that Mitsuru's duelist uniform had shorts because he was still a kid. Remember that the regular children's uniforms also have shorts. It's only when the students get older that they graduate to long pants.

Traditionally, young children would wear shorts so that they run less of a risk dirtying their clothes when they inevitably fall down or play in whatever filthy things kids gravitate to. Even the tights are standard fare. One of my few childhood memories in Poland was that I and all of the other boys wore tights to school. Damned if I know the reasoning but it's why I didn't question his getup when I first saw it.


Somewhere, there is an unplugged toaster sitting on a Coleman stove.

Does it feel lonely?

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#15 | Back to Top12-07-2015 08:40:01 AM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 172

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

Flah wrote:

I was under the impression that Mitsuru's duelist uniform had shorts because he was still a kid. Remember that the regular children's uniforms also have shorts. It's only when the students get older that they graduate to long pants.

Traditionally, young children would wear shorts so that they run less of a risk dirtying their clothes when they inevitably fall down or play in whatever filthy things kids gravitate to. Even the tights are standard fare. One of my few childhood memories in Poland was that I and all of the other boys wore tights to school. Damned if I know the reasoning but it's why I didn't question his getup when I first saw it.

This also sort of ties into Nanami, and her relative immaturity and thus more pronounced coming of age arc. (maybe that on par with Utena's?) She does not wear the pants in the family, but she does have a pair of tights and short shorts that she probably picked out for herself.

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#16 | Back to Top01-27-2016 11:05:24 AM

Astrinde
Tenjou Tilter
From: New Orleans
Registered: 01-26-2016
Posts: 89
Website

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

Reviving this thread because I like the idea of analyzing the uniforms!

I can't speak much about design elements, but with regard to colour: I'm influenced by the study of Yoga and Ayurveda, as well as an acting coach who included these elements in his teaching, and I've long viewed the students' colour schemes as corresponding to the chakras, with their primary colour hinting at their aims and the obstacle(s) that obstruct them.  The predominant colour tells us how they're "stuck," particularly if read as being trapped between the chakra below and the chakra above.  (The below isn't intended to be an exhaustive analysis of the chakras! but rather a westernized, general sort of idea - stuff that a viewer might already know without studying the system.)

Red ties to physical reality, passions, impulses, the physical self, as well as all of the human responses considered instinctual or primal, everything that drives us to survive; also relevant to both Touga and Anthy is that it's the colour of innate safety and security and so is unbalanced by assault, particularly childhood trauma.  Disturbed, this chakra can result in excessive lust and a drive to power and control; however, there's an idea of transcendence and higher aspiration in Touga's white, which is wholly absent from Akio's unbroken scarlet.

Orange relates to the sacral chakra, to joy and emotional needs; blocked, it's where both frustrated desire and despair arise, and this is where we find Juri trapped, unable to reconcile her physical self and passions (the chakra below) with her identity and ego (the chakra above).  Likewise, yellow - with its emphasis upon personal power, as it relates to both the will and the mind - hints that Nanami misuses her power because she can't yet control her impulses and transform her own need for security (the lower two chakras) into true selfless love (the chakra above); as a result, her heart is blocked, and she sometimes acts without consideration or empathy.

Blue relates to truth, expression, and purity, and Miki, while possessing a genius-level intellect and a great degree of talent, has something of a roadblock in these areas.  His intellect doesn't suffice to describe or explain everything happening around him, and he's unable to clarify the changed relationship with his sister or even talk openly to her.  In fact, he doesn't speak often at all, and seems to convey longings and confusion through media other than his voice: the piano, the stopwatch.  And his quest for a shining thing is limited by an incorrect understanding of purity, which he can't reach past to connect with others as they truly are.

Purple represents one's higher purpose and connection with other beings (at the level of the soul), as well as with divine energy (if one believes in such); with this in mind, it could be that Ruka's blue is darker than Miki's because he's closer to this aim, fighting for a more selfless (though still imperfect) reason, or at least with a clearer sense of purpose.  And Nemuro is steeped in purple for this reason of connection; his purple-tinted lenses show someone literally looking for a higher calling, and his whole character arc involves the need to awaken his own soul, to pursue some greater goal (through the project), and to find a unity with others that has hitherto eluded him.  Those three aims all converge in the persons of Tokiko and Mamiya, and at their loss, he sinks into a cold clarity - a computer's idea of truth and expediency - culminating in a silent, warped means of "expression".  (There's also the peep of a blue cuff from beneath his purple jacket, which looks like the same uniform that his students wear; it could indicate a certain insecurity - like someone playing professor-dress-up without really believing it - and/or a sign of covering up truth.)  Mikage's clothing then continues this character development, as Nemuro's purple splits into the two colours of his jacket - the blue of truth (which Mikage can neither accept nor express without undoing his entire raison d'etre), and the red of physical reality (which is only trim on his uniform, hinting at a tenuous connection to existence).

Nemuro's clothing also provides a clue to understanding Utena's, as his black gloves nicely invert the impeccable image of a white-gloved worker: honest, above-board, engaging in clean work.  The gloves hint that the project is not what it seems to be; they also suggest that Nemuro is lying to himself.  Likewise, I think that Utena wears black because, on some level, her desire to be a prince is unillumined, unexamined, untruthful in some way; while she isn't lying to herself out of malice or bad intentions, she nonetheless hasn't examined this fundamental goal of her life, hasn't done the self-scrutiny that could "shed light" on her purpose.  It hints at what she will have to do before she can "graduate."

And so the theme song says to "strip down to nothing," since the shedding of this coloured clothing, for each duellist, represents transcendence of whatever issue prevents them from becoming "like a rose petal, blowing free". emot-smile

(Also, I just realised that I skipped green.  But you get the idea, and I fear that I've already made this post too long!)

-Astrinde

Last edited by Astrinde (01-27-2016 11:25:28 AM)

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#17 | Back to Top01-30-2016 11:42:06 AM

CarolineWellwater
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 10-18-2015
Posts: 67

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

(( Hey Astrinde,

Um... okay, I'm not really following what a "Chakra" is.  Could... you elaborate a bit?  I'm SWAG-ing that it has to do something with psyches and whatnot... but... I'm not 100% sure if that's what it is. ))

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#18 | Back to Top01-30-2016 02:47:04 PM

Astrinde
Tenjou Tilter
From: New Orleans
Registered: 01-26-2016
Posts: 89
Website

Re: Student Council / Duelist Uniforms

Hi CarolineWellwater, and I'm sorry I didn't explain it in my original post!  Do you ever get so involved in studying something that you forget a world exists outside of what you're learning?  So...yeah....oops!

Anyway, you're right in that it's one of those spiritual/psyche sort of things.  The idea of "chakras" begins with the teaching that each person has a "subtle body" as well as a physical body, and that a vital energy, called Prana, moves through this subtle body in channels called nadis.  There are thousands of these nadis, and therefore many places where they converge, but there are several major energy centers or nodes that have particular importance, and these centers are what people commonly call "chakras".  In Yoga, one way to realize and awaken God/the Self/the Truth is through Yogic practices that purify and control that vital Prana.  And some believe that, as this awakening occurs, those chakras begin to blossom and open.

Such teachings originate with the ancient Hindu texts called Upanishads, and play a role in Buddhist tradition as well, so they're much more meaningful and complex than the awkward summary I've written above.  But an idea of "the seven chakras" has been adopted into Western New Age philosophy and is sometimes used in spiritual practices and in "alternative" healing methods such as Reiki.  And if you've ever seen a diagram like this--

https://maghavan.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/colouredchakraswithdescriptions.jpg

--then you've seen a simple visual representation of those major chakras.

So I figured that, since Utena incorporated material from several different philosophies and religions, then it might not be so farfetched to associate the duellists' colours with ideas stemming from the above.  Then again, I could just be reading way too much into something that's little more than OOOO PRETTY COLOURS. emot-smile

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