You forgot the "they did it" between Touga and Kozue (or at least extreme make out session)

ETA: Also I'd have a "I bet they did it" between Touga and Saionji, given the heaviness of the subtext there.

Last edited by Etrangere (02-08-2010 05:55:08 AM)

minervana wrote:

Etrangere wrote:

You forgot the "they did it" between Touga and Kozue (or at least extreme make out session)

There was a Touga/Kozue makeout session? Where have I been?

Not in the Music room, over the piano, apparently. First Miki episode?

This is a great idea, minervana, and I really like your chart. It reminds me of the chart on The L Word!

Etrangere: Not in the Music room, over the piano, apparently. First Miki episode?

And a little later on we see Touga lounging on the bed (in that room with the fluttering curtain where he and Akio also later have sex) and then we see Kozue standing seductively by that very fluttering curtain (with disheveled clothes). Hence more Touga/Kozue sex.

As Dallbun brings up, yes to Anthy and Mr Kaoru. And I agree that yes Brown-haired Boy/Juri IS fascinating. And would make great fanfic. We need a name for Brown-haired boy. An appropraite Brown-haired name...is he really completely nameless? Poor guy.

Furthermore I propose the invention of a new line - say yellow - for "sensual encounters" between characters. Because there's an awful lot of that going on and it hints at sex being possible (eventually) or something sexual between various characters. Unless there would be too many yellow lines? I'm thinking yellow lines for such pairings as:

Nanami/Tsuwabuki (the hand holding moment)
Tsuwabuki/Mari (the kiss)
Nanami/Touga (the kiss)
Touga/Utena (the kisses)
Utena/Anthy (the hand holding, breast touching)
Mikage/Tokiko (the eye gazing, stalker spying)
Juri/Shiori (the lip tracing)

And the list goes on and on and on. I think what this thread also highlights (whether we bother with yellow lines or not) is that SKU has an awful lot of "pre-sex", or "sex possibility implied" or "innuendo" or whatever you want to call it. Whatever it is there's so much of it (literally seeping out of the series) it deserves some kind of special name. Maybe "skuendo"?

The part about Utena throwing Anthy on the bed was movie-verse.  They don't have sex in that scene.  They are implied to have had sex in those brief flashback scenes during Juri's duel with Utena and I feel preeeeeettty sure they did it then.  Just spoon's hunches.

Anime-verse, Utena and Anthy don't have sex as far as I am convinced.

Charuru wrote:

Dallbun wrote:

On another Kozue note, I'd argue that Miki and Kozue's line should be thick green, not red. It's along the same lines as Akio/Kozue and Akio/Tokiko: there's no direct evidence, but seems like a really good guess based on what we see of their relationship.

Can somebody link me to a discussion on this. Seeing the red line there made me do a double take.

Oh, discussions are all over the place. Here are some.

Miki/Kozue OTP? ???
The Views on Kozue
Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

(For looking up this kind of stuff, remember satyreyes' awesome Master SKU Analysis Catalogue that's stickied to the top of the forum, and the forum's search function. )

A commonly-held view, which I agree with, is that they definitely don't engage in any sexual activity during the series itself, but probably experimented with each other when they were younger. (I admit, though, that given the lack of direct evidence, a thin green line is probably the most appropriate choice.)

sharnii wrote:

SKU has an awful lot of "pre-sex", or "sex possibility implied" or "innuendo" or whatever you want to call it.

I think the appropriate word here is "sexuality".

Last edited by Dallbun (02-08-2010 09:57:05 PM)

Apparently, RGU during its original airing was marketed as a kid's show and had to follow the regulations of its time slot. Thus, I find it hilarious that a series which doesn't use the word "sex" once (or "making love", or even "sleeping together", or any of the other common euphemisms) happens to be the most sexily intelligent show I've ever seen. Implication runs rampant in nearly every episode, yet few of the scenes feel like pandering fanservice. Hat's off to you, Ikuhara. If I could write as well as you...

Fangirl gushing aside, OnlyInThisLight brings up an interesting discussion point. I want to say "no", child-hood experimentation obviously shouldn't be counted on the same level as adult decisions...but then I remember that almost all the cast are in middle and high school, so almost all the sex in this series is child-sex. This is prolly not squicky to the average Japanese, because all the characters beyond Tsuwabuki and Mari are at or above the usual Japanese age of consent in most provinces (13, right?), but even if you ignore age, do any of the RGU characters have sex in what we'd consider a "responsible" way?

I'd argue that the Juri/BHB pairing is one of the few pairings in the series w/ no implied sex. Unlike, say, the Kaoru milkshakes, or Touga and Saionji's midnight ride, there weren't any metaphors. Juri and BHB do spar in the flashback in Ep. 7, and you could interpret the phallic imagery as meaning something, but Juri plows through a lot of random mooks during fencing practice, so unless she had sex w/ all of them...

Last edited by Nights1stStar (02-09-2010 07:15:26 AM)

winksniper wrote:

Hm, this really gets me thinking, especially about the brown-haired boy and Juri pairing.
I never thought of the two actually doing anything but casual flirting.
And as Dallbun brought up, there must have been a deeper reason than just flirting for Shiori to truly believe that Juri was in love with him.  And casual sex just for the hell of it just seems like a Juri-type thing to me.  Which makes me think (though, it's unlikely) that she and Ruka shared some sexual activity.  Why else would she hate him so much?  (but that's just my though, again, I highly doubt anything happened between the two.)

Yeah, I can also see Juri and BHB happening. Since she was always so mature, sophisticated, and popular, and some people see having sex as a rite of passage, maybe she did just for the sake of doing it, not because she necessarily had feelings from BHB. Of course, Shiori would have interpreted it differently...

As far as Juri and Ruka, it's an interesting thought (maybe when she was still in her "exploration" stage), but like you, I'm not sure how likely it is.

crystalwren wrote:

Then there's the added bonus of her fearing Ruka would out her. I personally don't think he'd do that, but it's a legitimate fear for Juri to have.

I don't think "outing" Juri would have any real effect. It's not exactly a secret that she's not into guys. Juri has fangirls––not really fanboys. Plus, isn't everybody in Ohtori bi?

I second the point that Akio is somehow involved in every sex scene in the series, whether he's the one having sex, driving the car or just on the phone. The two exceptions you could make are the Touga/Kozue scene and when Ruka forces himself on Juri––which wasn't sex, but it was certainly sexual, as well as violent.

You could argue that Juri's attraction to Shiori was really just sublimated sexual attraction, with no real emotional component. However, because she's sort of out of touch with her emotions, she couldn't bring herself to deal with it, and thus it warped and mutated into the infatuation from hell.

You could make a convincing case that Ruka and Juri slept together. How else did he know who was in her locket? Well, maybe Akio told him. That's also possible.

oldboy wrote:

The two exceptions you could make are the Touga/Kozue scene

Oh, I think Akio was involved in that one too, prompting Touga to do it and properly prim Miki for his duel.

winksniper wrote:

To me, it's kinda clear how he figures it out in his two episodes.  And I have a feeling he knows what she's going through.

Yeah. Juri isn't that hard to read.

Besides, doesn't the shadow girl dialogue at the end of the two episodes indicate that he knew even before coming back to Ohtori? I bet he had plenty of time observing and drawing conclusions when he was coaching Juri in the fencing club.

I'm really surprised there hasn't been a topic on this before!

I've never really thought about Juri and BHB before....I'd like to see some fic exploring it though. It's a really interesting idea -- most people are like LOL he's not Ruka and write him off.

Also I think I'd give the Juri/Ruka relationship at least a maybe.

As far as Miki/Kozue -- I think I'd move that to a maybe?? The way they interact I'm not sure that's their relationship -- although Kozue seems to enjoy teasing him, I think it may be something she just does to bug him. Miki to me seems one of the most innocent of the characters and I don't really think he's sexually active during the anime.

Unless you're talking the movie. The movie, I'm more likely to believe. Everyone seems less innocent there.

Cherry wrote:

Well, I'm an idiot! I always thought Ruka -was- the brown haired boy, for some reason. T_T

And I'm probably being a moron again, but I had assumed everytime Akio took someone out in his car (well, not everytime, but I mean during the Akio arc where he takes someone out and the next day they challenge Utena), he had sex with them. Or at least was involved. I don't know -why- I think that, and it doesn't really make much sense considering Juri. I don't believe she'd sleep with Akio no matter how manipulitive he is.

I should probably watch the series again. I always miss things/get things wrong the first couple of times I see a series.

Actually, the first time I watched SKU I thought Ruka was the BHB as well. I was confused the second time around and it didn't finally click until the third and then it was definitely a forehead slapping moment.

And as for going to a ride in Aiko's car, I think it's very telling that it gets quite a few mentions on TV Tropes. usually connected with, "What Do You Mean It's Not Symbolic?" But I think you're right; Akio sleeping with Juri in any context doesn't make much sense. I've read a few discussions on how Juri is actually a much better candidate for Prince than Utena is; while Akio would have to work at exploiting the chinks in Juri's armour, Anthy would have an easier time of it. I cannot quite figure out why she wouldn't. Setting up a serious rivalry between Utena and Juri would be of advantage.