This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
As always I make it into a fandom several years late
Regardless I managed to watch 800 odd minutes of Utena in three days, after telling myself I was going to watch it slowly and carefully. Unfortuntately it got pretty addictive, and as you can imagine my brain feels like its about to explode.
Anyway, I also managed to get ahold of the movie (much to my glee), unfortunately or maybe not so unfortuntaely, its in dub.
I dunno, I just got scared. Some dubs are alright but I have expectations now, I've seen the series, and although I hear the movie runs parrell to the series I still want an accurate depiction of the characters. Voices change characters, I've witnessed a sad depressed character in sub, turn into a bitter and resentful character in dub. I don't want that. Well not if it has a negative effect on the stor or charcters I don't. I suppose what I'm saying, or rather asking is, what is your opinioun of the dub, should I watch it anyway, or should I hold out until I can get the sub instead. Thoughts?
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The Utena movie dub is terrifying and hilarious. I found that everyone had their names changed in pronounciation. Wakaba and Touga's names were pronounced so badly....
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Why would they do that?? See, I can't enjoy it, if I'd watched it in sub, and then watch it in dub and the dub is bad, then I can be like-HAHAHA- *wipes tear*- thats funny......but I haven't seen the sub yet *weeps*. But I can't imagine a few pronounciation differences can make it terrifying? Can it?
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Haha, my first time through I watched the whole series on the old dubbed videos, and the movie too. I'm partial to the dubs for Utena, actually. They're not as horrific as some I've heard, but they're not among legends of greatness either. I'd say watch the dub. I think Utena herself is better in English (her japanese actress makes me want to kill her), although Anthy is annoying as hell. I think they keep the intentions and inflections intact though, there's no great loss really.
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They wanted Utena to still be feminine despite her goal to become a prince. But, I heard the dub, too, and I think the dubbed Utena's got a great voice, also. Just not what I expect to hear from the vocal cord of a supposed 14-year old is all, :p
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I've seen some clips of the dub and I also have the feelings that Starfire described. I liked Utena's voiceactress in the original and while the dub Utena isn't the worst, I still can't bring myself to like it. :/ Also, I noticed that all the fun details get lost or deformed during the dubbing. The only Utena dub I like is the fandub.
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Well I almost always forget most of the cast are like 14, 13 anyway O.o, as long as the voice isn't bordering on middle age it shouldn't be too bad right?? Though considering I'm getting pretty mixed responses it doesn't sound as awful as some dubs I've encountered,
I think they keep the intentions and inflections intact though, there's no great loss really.
That was a key worry of mine.
although Anthy is annoying as hell
I heard somewhere that she sounded asleep O.o
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Maarika wrote:
I've seen some clips of the dub and I also have the feelings that Starfire described. I liked Utena's voiceactress in the original and while the dub Utena isn't the worst, I still can't bring myself to like it. :/ Also, I noticed that all the fun details get lost or deformed during the dubbing. The only Utena dub I like is the fandub.
They have a fandub?? No, no, I defintely don't want deformed details. Is it obvious I'm indecisive??
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morosemocha wrote:
I think Utena herself is better in English (her japanese actress makes me want to kill her).
I must disagree here, mocha. Rachael Lillis as Utena makes me want to tear my hair out when I hear her. The woman is just so... unemotional. She gives Utena a rather flat voice that sometimes sounds like she's stoned out of her mind. I am willing to concede this may all be a product of the differences between how Americans and Japanese record voice acting.
Personally, I think the only dub voice for any of the Utena characters is Shiori. Lisa Ortiz does a wonderful job with that bitter girly character.
Regardless, Mel, watch the movie regardless of it dubbness. Don't expect to understand it, but enjoyt the pretties, both visual and musical.
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Coco Melancholy wrote:
Maarika wrote:
I've seen some clips of the dub and I also have the feelings that Starfire described. I liked Utena's voiceactress in the original and while the dub Utena isn't the worst, I still can't bring myself to like it. :/ Also, I noticed that all the fun details get lost or deformed during the dubbing. The only Utena dub I like is the fandub.
They have a fandub?? No, no, I defintely don't want deformed details. Is it obvious I'm indecisive??
Yes, there's a fandub of the first two episodes. Someday you'll watch them, alright? ;D
I wonder why there haven't been any updates for so long, though. We want our fandubs! :/
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angelicreation wrote:
morosemocha wrote:
I think Utena herself is better in English (her japanese actress makes me want to kill her).
I must disagree here, mocha. Rachael Lillis as Utena makes me want to tear my hair out when I hear her. The woman is just so... unemotional. She gives Utena a rather flat voice that sometimes sounds like she's stoned out of her mind. I am willing to concede this may all be a product of the differences between how Americans and Japanese record voice acting.
Personally, I think the only dub voice for any of the Utena characters is Shiori. Lisa Ortiz does a wonderful job with that bitter girly character.
Regardless, Mel, watch the movie regardless of it dubbness. Don't expect to understand it, but enjoyt the pretties, both visual and musical.
lol something thats more confusing than the series. I refuse to believe it, O.o
I am tempted to be all to hell with it and watch the dub. But if its too painful I'm not sure I'll be able to make it all the way through without scars, and I want to enjoy it not endure it.
Maarika wrote:
Yes, there's a fandub of the first two episodes. Someday you'll watch them, alright? ;D
I wonder why there haven't been any updates for so long, though. We want our fandubs! :/
I dearly want to hear this fandub, I was totally unaware they even exsist, and done well as well, are they done better than the actual dubs in some cases, because if they are I think the original dub voice cast should just, like, hang their heads in shame.
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Ugh. The dub. I adore the original Japanese voice actors, but the English ones make every character sound slow. It's like they're purposefully enunciating EVERY word so they make sure you understand what they're saying. We can hear, we can comprehend what's going on (well, some of us)... come on!
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You know, I acutally think SKU has a pretty decent dub. Out of all the dubs I've ever had the horror of witnessing, SKU is one that I can get through pretty smoothly. I think the only majorly fucked characters were minor ones [like Mitsuru, or Ruka... ugh, dub Ruka literally makes me gag], and the only other mistakes were pronounciations, but I believe they got better with time. The movie, however, royally fucks names and never attempts toi fix them, but at least in the series, they get them right eventually.
Alexandra, I understand what you mean about talking slowly, but English and Japanese are two very different languages. If anything, I think the originals for most talk rather quickly, though that isn't a problem. In the translations, some words need to be enunciated a bit slowly. I don't really think SKU is any worse than American television in that respect.
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Coco Melancholy wrote:
Maarika wrote:
Yes, there's a fandub of the first two episodes. Someday you'll watch them, alright? ;D
I wonder why there haven't been any updates for so long, though. We want our fandubs! :/I dearly want to hear this fandub, I was totally unaware they even exsist, and done well as well, are they done better than the actual dubs in some cases, because if they are I think the original dub voice cast should just, like, hang their heads in shame.
I think it's better than the actual dub. Here's the link: http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?pid=27576#p27576
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The only things I'd seen of the English dub was the 'drink spilling scene' from episode 3 and the first half of episode 20.
Utena didn't sound too bad, just not boyish enough. Rachael Lilis wasn't too bad, but I think she could've made her sound a little less feminine. Anthy just sounded depressed. Touga I liked, but I'm a fan of Crispin Freeman, that smooth talking bastard. Wakaba was nice and cheery, not too bad (but the way they say her name kills me.. gahh).
I thought Saionji's was the absolute worst and they KILLED episode 20. Saionji is sweet and sincere and we see him being nice in that episode, but in the English version, he just sounds like a jerk. I really thought he sounded like he was being sarcastic and patronising to Wakaba, which kills me because 20 is about my favourite episode.
It's not that the dub is BAD, per se, it's just that it could've been better.
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If I had to rate the Utena dub compared to other animes it would look like this:
BEST DUBBING
+ Azumanga (I seen both dub and Japanese versions on DVD and I rate the dub higher as they matched voice and personality so well)
+
+
+ Evangelion (Good solid dubbing)
+ Hellsing (High points for Walter, Seras and Integra. Crispin is a good actor but no where near as good as the Japanese Alcard)
+
+ Utena (The dub Mitsuru sounds way too old, Ruka sounded like a snobby prick, I kept expecting Shiori to do a Dragon Slave and Akio lacked sex appeal)
+
+
+ Sailor Moon (WTF is up with Naru err I mean Molly and Luna is supposed to be like a teenager not Mary Poppins and well the script changes)
+
+ One Piece (The horror...THE HORROR!)
WORSE DUBBING
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Tamago wrote:
+ Utena (The dub Mitsuru sounds way too old, Ruka sounded like a snobby prick, I kept expecting Shiori to do a Dragon Slave and Akio lacked sex appeal)
There is no dub!Akio, remember?
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Ah Maarika I have no sound on my laptop, not unless there's anywhere I can download that so I can move it onto my computer that does have sound.
I'm not too bothered with the series dub since I've seen the whole thing in sub and really enjoyed it. I abosulutely love Juri and Anhty sub. I'd only watch the dub out of curiosity, (or extreme cases of bordom.....masochism if its really bad).
Its the movie I'm most interested in since thats what I got, though I requested it in sub just because I'm that scared.
Could someone try to write how they pronounce Wakaba's name?? I'm quite curious since that seems to be a repetitive criticism.
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Yeah, they say it with huge emphasis on the -ka- part, so its like 'wa-KAH-ba'. It just sounds odd..
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everyone here has good points about both the sub and dub versions of utena.
I personally prefer to watch the sub when im alone. but since i hardly ever am, i end up watching the dub.
now, personally i think the dub in the first 13 suck! most of the cast did WAY better when Ikuhara was over their shoulders for the movie. all except the voice for nanami. her pronounciation of names SUCKED! never once did she get anthy's name pronounced correctly!
on a quick side note, i plan on making a .wav of the horrible dub saionji laugh from the utena/saionji duel in ep 1 (or was it 2?). I want to use it as a ring tone on my cell. that way my phone will laugh when someone calls
ok, so now i totally derailed myself here.... um... Lisa Ortiz did the voice of Lina Inverse from Slayers, right?
oh! and one last thing that annoyed me on the series... all the characters in the dub talked like they needed prozac.
but there are worse voice acted animes... Bible Black (i know... hentai. still its animated), yu gi oh was bad, pokemon (come on! do we need to change the main cast with EVERY new series/season?), Digimon... pretty much anything that can be chopped up to main stream. yeah. pretty bad. outlaw star--
Last edited by guardian_rose (06-05-2007 12:36:26 PM)
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Tamago wrote:
BEST DUBBING
+ Azumanga (I seen both dub and Japanese versions on DVD and I rate the dub higher as they matched voice and personality so well)
Nooooooooo!!!! When I hear Osaka speaking in a Texan accent, I die inside.
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I don't like Rachael Lillis as Utena's voice but I will agree that Lisa Ortiz is excellent as Shiori. Actually, she's just excellent at whoever she voices.
And yes, dub Integra, Seras and Walter from Hellsing are all awesome. Especially Integra.
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ShatteredMirror wrote:
I don't like Rachael Lillis as Utena's voice but I will agree that Lisa Ortiz is excellent as Shiori. Actually, she's just excellent at whoever she voices.
Ooooh, a well done Shiori, I like the sound of that since I have a place in my heart for her character.
Last edited by Coco Melancholy (06-05-2007 05:32:49 PM)
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I never understood the hang-up on dub Shiori. Most people don't think Lisa Oritz was right for the role, but I think she was perfect. Don't throw stones, but I found dub Shiori to be much more accurate than sub Shiori. Lisa voices the innocence just fine, but she does magnificently with the cruelty. Kumiko Nishihara really shows little to no malice, which shouldn't be the case for cruelly innocent. This isn't to say I dislike Nishihara, but I just find Oritz portrayed her closer to how I would imagine her voice.
I think Rachael Lillis did a good job. Yes, she could have stood to be a little less feminine, but she made it work. I'll say that Anthy lacked the monotone she had with Yuriko Fuchizaki, but even then, she still didn't sound quite right. I don't think Anthy was cast the way I'd pictured her in either version, though both Sharon Becker and Yuriko did play this incredibly complicated character to the best of their ability. I certainly couldn't have done it better.
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I don't like Anthy's dub voice either. I think my issue with it is that it's not deep enough. I know, she's 13....but I think the VA confused soft-spoken with monotone.
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