In the end though Nanami does appear to be the most noble of all of the Seitokai. Her reason for dueling is exactly the same reason that Utena dueled Touga back in episode 12. She wanted to regain and surpass herself. She had as much reason to win and conquer everything that kept her under as much as Utena did. But unfortunately that wasn't in Akio's plans, using her as bait for another duel leading towards revolution. Notice Nanami's style. It is exorbitantly different from her brother's, she fight's with power and an assassin's touch. If it weren't for the power of Dios, Utena would have easily been defeated by Nanami. Yet after the duel Utena doesn't even act as if it was a challenge. Though in my opinion Nanami fight's just as well as Juri or even "Enchanted Arena" Touga. Though I could go on and on about Nanami's suprebly vast improvement's that's not the point of this thread. Though it could be an interesting comparison.

EDIT: I just rewatched the duel and I love the internal dialogue the two have. They couldn't possibly be talking in the duel as Nanami is shouting battle cry's all over the place. So internal dialogue is just that... that may be my favorite conversation in the series.  Also rewatching this duel proves that Mikage borrowed a move from Nanami as well (could be the other way around, it's also possible Juri does the same move.) She does a three forward strike which... doesn't achieve much but what's strange about their lunge is during that time Mikage inacted the side switching move.. which I'm still not quite sure how that worked. Anyway... out of all the duelists it seems that Nanami's uses a lot of Mikage moves, if you notice Nanami and Touga's duel uses a lot of Mikage moves... though I doubt there is any hidden meaning behind it... but Mikage was the only man that Nanami was attracted to in the least. Another thing to add to this rambling point. If you notice hnear the end of her duel once she knocks Utena to the ground she hesitates for just a moment with the memory of childhood Touga saying "Stop it!" in referring to hitting the kitten. Or is this me reading too much into it.

Last edited by Xu Yuan (10-24-2006 09:02:37 PM)

Clarice wrote:

Ooh, here's something I'd like to explore -- what was YOUR reaction to the kiss scene, everyone? I am beginning to think I am the only person who WASN'T surprised by Nanami shoving Touga the fuck out of her face.

Nope, I definitely wasn't surprised. I think Nanami was sexually attracted to Touga, but not because she wanted sex, understood it, or even realized she felt that way. In total ignorance I think she'd have been quite happy to sleep with him, just for the closeness. But she does know what sex is, and that he doesn't seem to take it too seriously. She's just innocent enough to harbor a desire for him without quite understanding it, but it's still very much the background; she loves Touga, for a few reasons but she does want him, and it doesn't quite click to her until those episodes what that wanting means now that they're older. She sees Akio and Anthy together and I think she was 99% revolted and 1% regretful that it was bad for things to work that way. Nanami strikes me as the type that would see sex as a very close hug, except that Touga's philandering has taught her better.

In fact, I think down the road his behavior with other women will end up giving Nanami a very poor view of sex. She wanted desperately to be close to her brother, that desire for affection should naturally have carried over to sex, but watching Touga treat it more casually than he treats his dinner menu would no doubt have an effect on her now that she is aware of sexuality in a more immediate sense.

I shouldn't analyze in the morning.

Tamago wrote:

A 'What If' Utena was still stuck inside Anthy's body when it gets to Saturday night, would make for an intriging fan-fiction to say the least.

There are a lot of things you can do with a virgin body that doesn't noticeably change it. The question is, do we consider this a form of rape? Or would Akio and Anthy be engaging in a very tangible form of roleplaying?

Clarice wrote:

I adore the character of Nanami. If you're interested, I once wrote an essay about the egg episode that ended up being more a generalisation of her character than anything else; you can read it here: http://claireoujisama.livejournal.com/399945.html

It's been a while since I've read it -- let alone since I WROTE it -- so I've probably forgotten the half of what I was getting at, but hey, it's analysis, it's fun to poke holes in it.

I clicked the link to read your comments on Nanami's Egg and as my brain isn't too great at absorbing facts in large quanities, I will read it again soon.

I can comfortably say that I have thought some aspects of the story in the same way (even if I wouldn't be able to write it down as well as you) you also have given me a modified outlook on Nanami's nature.

I love Nanami's ability to tell it how it is. Like when she called Akio a pervert.

Ivy-chan wrote:

She said she wanted to surpass everything, her brother, herself up til that point, everything. I started loving Nanami at that point.

I was rewatching that episode last night, actually, and had to rewind it twice because I was curious about the odd Japanese she was using there. Has anyone noticed this before? Nanami says "subete o koete....oniisama mo...watakushi mo."

The verb "koeru" means to cross over or beyond, usually in a spiritual or poetic sense, as in transcendence or breaking free of something. She also doesn't use the usual "I want" form of the verb - instead she simply says "I WILL transcend," not simply "I want." The visual imagery there is supremely powerful in those three lines as Nanami sits up from the car hood and tells Utena that she'll not only beat Utena, but she'll transcend everything she's been up till this point. I think that this in part has a great deal to do with the "specialness" that keeps coming up in the series. Nanami is not "special" anymore based on Touga being her brother, but right now, she doesn't care. She will be special. She'll make herself special. She is special, and no one, not even Touga or Utena, can take that from her.

After she loses, I believe Nanami is at a real quandry. She, for a brief moment during that duel, had that specialness that Utena or Touga had - without needing a person to lean on to make her special. Now that she's lost, what does she have? And Touga doesn't make it any better. He simply walks away and goes to have sex with Akio (ha).

Last edited by Ger (10-30-2006 06:33:07 AM)

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Ragnarok wrote:

I wonder if there's anyone out there that dislikes Nanami for a reason other than this? It's hard to judge what Nanami thought she was doing, other than getting rid of the kitten. She's fiveish at the time, so it's highly unlikely she really understands death at all. Until she sees the box go over the falls and she realizes what she's done. That has got to be one of the most awful experiances a person could go through. Before she throws the kitten in the river she blames it for its own fate, and that's a mentality she clings to as a way to shield herself from having done such a terrible thing.

I showed my friend episode 10 yesterday. By the end of the duel, I finally remember to mention that she killed the kitten.

Friend: "She killed the kitten...? I hate Nanami now."

Me: "But she didn't mean too! *Tries to explain everything you just said.*"

Friend: "I don't care. If you kill a kitten, you're dead to me."

I'm a cat-lover myself, so I can sort of understand where she's coming with this, but I still don't think it should be held against her. This experience, however, gives us a good idea of how what Nanami did can affect the way she is viewed. When my sister and I were first watching Utena, she had actually seen it five years pervious, and the first thing she said when Nanami appeared during the themesong was, "That girl killed a kitten."

No one in their right mind, certainly!

Luckily that's not quite how it goes in Nanami's case either. As with other cases in SKU, it's the characters reactions to their own actions that humanizes them enough for us to care about them.

It's funny how easily a character can be damned by one thing, no matter how is shown of them. Nanami does a horrible thing and it's easier to hate her for it. A lot of people don't get past that. The same holds true for Shiori, Anthy, Saionji, etc. But no character in the series should be written off for any one thing they do, terrible as it may be.

Razara wrote:

I mean who could look at something like this http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/ … queeky.jpg and think "I wanna drown it"?

well, who could look at something like this



and think "I don't want to sex it up" ?

dollface wrote:

well, who could look at something like this

http://www.clho.net/anime/utena/touga.jpg

and think "I don't want to sex it up" ?

I think the more important question is how could someone look at this,

And think, "She's the devil!"

Razara wrote:

I think the more important question is how could someone look at this,
And think, "She's the devil!"

Especially with this running around.





(It honestly confuses me how anyone can view Shiori or Nanami as evil. One shouldn't dignify their behavior that way.)

Edit: OH GOD. I totally figured out why Akio has that haircut.

IT'S TO HIDE THE HORNS.

Last edited by Giovanna (12-17-2006 08:22:43 PM)

You know, that picture of Shiori might not be as innocent as it first appears. She was offering a rose to Juri. Roses have thorns, and thorns are sharp! It was obviously an attempt on her life.

It's interesting that we never see what Touga's reaction was. The only thing I'd be certain of is that he knew the truth; likely as soon as he next saw Nanami. (Regardless of if that's when she's still crying and running from it, or if she's had a chance to calm down somewhat.) I want to think that he'd end up comforting her, the way he does after her attack on Utena following the duel. Then again, I have a habit of thinking the best in Touga, as far as his actions permit me.

But whatever his reaction was, in as much as it concerns Nanami, it's too insignificant to the act itself to be shown. Telling, considering how much she values him.