Analyse the elephants? Well the only thing I can think of offhand is that Anthy's being the passive-aggressive witch she is put some kind of magical equivient of ELEPHANTS PLEASE STOMP ME on Nanami's back.

Oh cause Nanami is a bitch! She's like the Cordelia character from Buffy in the early seasons or Libby from Sabrina the Teenage Witch in many ways but the fact that she doesn't stay the same as the series goes on is what makes her worthwhile for more than just 'someone to hate' or 'comic relief'.

I could think up some other things but I let other people post their ideas and I use that as a basis for me to agree or disagree with them.  Its easier for me to take something that already exists and alter it than to start from scratch.

Can't beat the bling-Juri!

If Utena was ghetto... Juzzizzle? Chu-chizzle? Nanamizzle?  Saionjizzle (HAHA! JIZZ!)?

Nanami rocks my world.  She seriously does.  Especially after her tussle with the inflatable squid.  Uuuhuhu...

Undeniably though, my favorite Nanami-on-crack episode is the curry one.  Elephants, cross-personalities, and Saion-chu.  That episode is LIFE!

Utena is honestly the only series I know of with worthwhile filler episodes.

Nanami, I love you.

The Nanami "operation Anthy" episode with the squid is so great too because Utena gets to be funny also. "Anthy, didn't you say you were getting rid of that thing?" and "It's dangerous just to open that closet.". Shows how Utena just takes Anthy's weirdness in stride.

Curry High Trip is quite the gem, yes. Nanami versus Anthy is quite a thread throughout the show. Purple and yellow, opposites on the color wheel.

Ger wrote:

what do you guys think of the Nanami-Touga relationship vs the Miki-Kozue relationship? I like comparing and contrasting the two girls and their obsession with their respective brothers - and how incredibly polar their attitudes are towards it.

Yeah, Kozue is fascinating to me, pragmatic and very self-aware. To me, Nanami is hopelessly ignorant in many ways about the way life works. Kozue is world weary and jaded. But for both of them, their brothers seem to be a path back to the security of childhood. Kozue knows that she can't go back but wishes she could and I think she takes Miki for a fool since he is always trying to go back by using Anthy as a substitute for his sister. Neither girl is pursuing a healthy adolescent idea of love. Nanami is of the age where she should be looking at other boys besides her brother but instead she's obsessed with him. Kozue is trying to forget her brother with any other guy she can get her hands on but is seemingly unable to. Also one of them is blatant about how they feel about their brother, the other tries to hide it. One tries over and over to please her brother, the other tries to do things to disapoint or hurt him. Both manage to get reactions from their brothers but in the end, their actions really don't change what the brothers do.

Kozue/Miki and Nanami/Touga are opposites in the way the siblings deal with each other but they are both pretty messed up relationships. Of course, in the end, Nanami and Kozue as characters are just a means of dissecting aspects of Anthy who first interacts with Akio in the Nanami way of trying to please Akio and be there for him, then later tries to hurt him and go against his wishes in the Kozue way. In the end, Anthy decides to pursue her own life away from her brother (best decision all around) and I think the series gives a good hint that Nanami has decided to move on from Touga as well. Kozue? Well, I hope so.

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

The curry episode is probably one of my favourite Nanami fillers too, especially when Utena in Anthy's body has to face Saionji and the secret exchange diary. Also, the pervert in me is amused that Utena and Anthy get to *cough* be in each other's bodies. But I know those two's relationship is platonic, at least in the beginning. But I do wonder if Utena ever noticed anything about Anthy's body relating to the stabbings, or if it just doesn't show up physically. Hmm. Okay, I'm reading too much into fillers.

There were some liberties taken with that plot because how could Anthy's body be strong and athletic just because Utena's personality inhabited it? I guess you just have to go with it. But that would've been a more interesting episode (and darker) if later on in the plot, they had switched for some reason and Utena did feel the physical pain that Anthy endures.

Yes, being Anthy certainly gives Utena a new appreciation for the life Anthy leads (except I guess she got changed back before a Saturday night rolled around?). And Anthy sure is in no hurry to switch back, a taste of freedom? Also, they might be platonic in the strictest physical sense but there is some major sexual tension.

Ragnarok wrote:

It's not necessarily a liberty to have Utena-as-Anthy doing well athletically. Granted her body wouldn't be as suited to sports, but most of Utena's accomplishments come from her willpower. If Anthy put some effort into it herself, she could do better at sports, I'm sure. That's just hardly a concern for her.

I'm willing to believe that the sword-stabby pain would follow Anthy's soul (or whatever you'd like to call it.) that got transferred, rather then her physical body taking the toll. It's questionable just how physically present Anthy really is, but that's another topic.

Nanami's Egg is my personal favourite Nanami-centric episode. Go-go Touga super hypocrite powers!

Hmm, good point about will power. And yes that would be another good thread about just where Anthy's soul and body are.

Yes, Nanami's Egg is so great with all the female health and hygiene symbolism you could possibly come up with. And you are so right, I always roll my eyes at Touga's "God's plan" speech.

She said she wanted to surpass everything, her brother, herself up til that point, everything. I started loving Nanami at that point.

Clarice wrote:

Ooh, here's something I'd like to explore -- what was YOUR reaction to the kiss scene, everyone? I am beginning to think I am the only person who WASN'T surprised by Nanami shoving Touga the fuck out of her face.

When Nanami (thinks she) learns that she and Touga aren't actually brother and sister I did expect her to immediatly pursue him in a romantic/sexual manner. This is because it was the second episode of the series I ever saw. But instead of it being a great relief to her, she was crushed to find out she didn't have a precious blood link to her brother. I was curious. Then she and Touga got into Akio's car. I was confused. Then Akio jumped over the windshield and rode on the roof of his car. This is why I love the series.

I'd like to think, had I seen the series in the proper order, I wouldn't have been surprised by any of it. But that's definitely not objective of me.

Razara wrote:

I feel bad for her, as well. I don't think that she ment to kill the kitten. The kitten is rather symbolic, in the sense that the kitten got hurt because of her, just as Touga got hurt because of Utena. She frequently states that it was the kittens fault for coming between Touga and her, but she also feels that it was her own fault that the kitten got hurt. The blood-type incident is also very sad.

I wonder if there's anyone out there that dislikes Nanami for a reason other than this? It's hard to judge what Nanami thought she was doing, other than getting rid of the kitten. She's fiveish at the time, so it's highly unlikely she really understands death at all. Until she sees the box go over the falls and she realizes what she's done. That has got to be one of the most awful experiances a person could go through. Before she throws the kitten in the river she blames it for its own fate, and that's a mentality she clings to as a way to shield herself from having done such a terrible thing.

Dani wrote:

Yes, being Anthy certainly gives Utena a new appreciation for the life Anthy leads (except I guess she got changed back before a Saturday night rolled around?). And Anthy sure is in no hurry to switch back, a taste of freedom? Also, they might be platonic in the strictest physical sense but there is some major sexual tension.

That's true, the whole body-switching thing probably made Utena even more determined about freeing Anthy after seeing what she had to deal with. I also found it interesting how Anthy was in no rush to change back to her body.

Ragnarok wrote:

I believe they called it divine justice

Divine justice.. that's right. Wow, I keep getting all of these wrong. XD

On Touga's hypocritcal talk about sexual morals, I wonder why he told Nanami all of that when he obviously doesn't act it. Is it perhaps because Nanami is his little sister and female, and maybe he thinks those rules should apply to her and not him? Nanami seems ignorant of her sexuality. It reminds me of sometimes people think it is more okay for guys to be sexually immoral, but for females it is not.

On the car scene: I was surprised by how Nanami reacted to Touga hitting on her, because like I said, I underestimated her before. I also didn't understand her much, but that scene woke up a whole lot of interest and curiousity in her character.

Ivy-chan wrote:

She said she wanted to surpass everything, her brother, herself up til that point, everything. I started loving Nanami at that point.

Same here. That car scene and her last duel opened up a whole lot of appreciation for Nanami I never had before.

I'm also wondering why she feels the need to surpass her brother. And why she seemed to like him romantically, but when he started giving her that kind of attention, she shoved him away. I think she feels inferior to him. That might explain why she seemed to want to be the only girl close to him, the only one he needed, so she could feel as important.

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (10-24-2006 03:44:48 PM)

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

I'm also wondering why she feels the need to surpass her brother. And why she seemed to like him romantically, but when he started giving her that kind of attention, she shoved him away. I think she feels inferior to him. That might explain why she seemed to want to be the only girl close to him, the only one he needed, so she could feel as important.

I think her identity is quite caught up in being Touga's Little Sister. That title gets Nanami her status at school and her "friends", and she embraces it as her entire persona. But since the whole show is about growing up, I think she's the example (like Tsuwabuki) of someone who looks up to older people, like Touga, who knows more than you do but then you see them make big mistakes and you realize, adults don't have some secret to the universe. Touga is stumbling around trying to find himself as much as Nanami.

Dani wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

I'm also wondering why she feels the need to surpass her brother. And why she seemed to like him romantically, but when he started giving her that kind of attention, she shoved him away. I think she feels inferior to him. That might explain why she seemed to want to be the only girl close to him, the only one he needed, so she could feel as important.

I think her identity is quite caught up in being Touga's Little Sister. That title gets Nanami her status at school and her "friends", and she embraces it as her entire persona. But since the whole show is about growing up, I think she's the example (like Tsuwabuki) of someone who looks up to older people, like Touga, who knows more than you do but then you see them make big mistakes and you realize, adults don't have some secret to the universe. Touga is stumbling around trying to find himself as much as Nanami.

I agree that Nanami's identity is caught up in who her brother is -- and one of the main reasons I didn't feel any surprise over Nanami shoving Touga away from her in the kiss scene is because of the relevance of the blood types. Nanami flips out to find she's not related to Touga -- because she WANTS to be related to him. If she leaned more the other way, then surely she would be happy to know there was no blood relation between them (although to give the show its dues, no-one else with a lust for their sibling seems to much care about the incest thing...). Nanami clung desperately to that blood relation aspect of their relationship, however, and why? Because she has something in common with Wakaba...she feels she is not as special as she makes herself out to be. If anything is shown by the comic relief episodes it is that Nanami is fundamentally insecure, but because she is related by blood to one of the "special people," that by default makes her special too. Not being related to Touga relegates her to the world of the insects who swarm all over him. This brings her world crashing down -- but it is interesting to note that Touga hits on her when she is convinced of their non-relation status, and she still shoves him away. She won't go that direction to make herself special, which is interesting. She knows how empty his relationships are, and though in some ways her sibling relationship was just as empty at least she was the only one. She knew she'd never be the only one if she was Touga's "girlfriend," but I think the idea was totally anaethema to her anyway. She wanted to be close to Touga to share in his specialness, but as his sister, not as anything else.

I agree that Nanami grows up, too, because she realises Touga's got feet of clay. ...and possibly a few STDs. I think she really needed a sex ed class after all that, anyway.

Touga's (and Akio's) goal in the car is ultimately to have Nanami duel Utena. As things stand between Touga and Nanami at that point he can't just tell her to do it. Possibly his advance was to regain/strengthen his hold over her, regardless of how he had to do it. When she shoves him back his question is "What do you want?" And whatever answer she's going to give he'll promise she can gain if she beats Utena.