Utena, at the beginning of the series, isn't as nearly self-sufficient or mature as she appears to be.

Wakaba pays more attention than her, is more outgoing and open, and Wakaba is... Wakaba. That should say something.

Then again, they're all young teens.

(( Hey satyreyes,

There's a weird twist on this trope in SKU: Utena isn't a transfer student.  It's easy to mistake her for one.  She spends the first episode getting shown around, it seems, by Wakaba; she has to have the Student Council pointed out to her; the Student Council has to have her pointed out to them; and of course she is a transfer student in the manga.

Now that you mention it, I did over look that, from episodes 1 and 2.  And, it makes sense, with the idea of her being a sophomore in all sorts of ways.  Still... in some ways, I think this still reinforces the idea of Utena wanting friends... or at least being isolated from the majority of the student body.  If, after a full year of being at the Academy, she still only really "knows" one person, that being Wakaba.  And, even that really wasn't from any effort on Utena's part.  Wakaba seems to do the vast majority of contact with Utena, and puts the most effort into their relationship.

That does seem to be the case!  But we do see her hanging out with others sometimes -- with Miki and Nanami in the first episode of Miki's two-parter, for instance.  She doesn't seem awkward around them, and she's not anxious about going to Touga's party in the third episode, either; she just dislikes her dress.  I'm not sure whether Utena has many friends, but she seems reasonably socially fluent to me.  As DD points out, that's different from being a good friend.  Loosely speaking, SKU is the story of Utena trying to figure out how to be a good friend, which is why we see her oblivious to the feelings and needs of Anthy, Wakaba, Nanami, and pretty much everyone else.

Well, you're right, again.  I had forgotten the masque ball from episode 3.  And, for that matter, Utena is invited to a number of the balls that the Student Council, and in particular Nanami, host.  However... I'm not as convinced she's terribly socially fluent. 

I think she understands that the rest of the student body sees her as some type of idol (due to her willingness to wear her Prince outfit as the most obvious sign), yet... she seems almost as awkward as Anthy at these dances.  She goes to them, and protects Anthy, and sort of mingles with Nanami, Miki, and Juri; yet, she doesn't really seem to mingle with the crowd much.  Or even mingle in any way that offers an ability to seem approachable.  She puts on a good face of being at the event... but doesn't really participate at it.  Often, I get the impression she keeps herself apart from everyone else without realizing it.  As if she's "going through the motions to make friends", but really doesn't understand or know how to do it, and has tricked herself into thinking that she's not doing anything incorrectly.  And, when she returns back to her dorm by herself, just accepts the results of being unable to approach anyone else.

Except over specific dramas like losing Anthy, I can't think of a time I saw loneliness in Utena's speech or body language.  Are you sure we aren't projecting the way we might feel in her circumstances onto her?

I don't think this is the case.  I think Utena is accepting of her isolation on the surface, and has a tremendous ability to beguile herself into thinking everything is okay.  I think she sees her actions, her ease of casualness with others, and her outwards comments as her ability to make friends; yet, part of her that is growing up notices that it isn't the case, but it just can't explain it or show it to the rest of herself.  To me, the best example of this was her duel with Wakaba. 

While Utena's verbal comments have her play it off as "I'm going to save you Wakaba", her facial expressions, her exasperation at not knowing what's upset Wakaba, her willingness to let Wakaba hair-wrangle her, and her un-willingness to draw her Sword of Dios show that Utena doesn't want to lose the one friend she has.  It also seems to be one of the times where Utena seems to be flat out ignoring Anthy, as Utena doesn't acknowledge any of Anthy's comments or subtle commands, and only moves to intercede herself between Wakaba and Anthy.  Anyway, it's a rare occurrence of Utena admitting to herself that she doesn't know what happened... instead of her normally projecting her wants / desires onto someone else to improve / better them.

Anyway, satyreyes thank you for the reply.  It gave me a lot more to think about. ))

satyreyes wrote:

If Utena's state of mind here feels familiar, it's because this scene is foreshadowing the last few episodes of the show, where you can imagine Utena saying the very same words to Anthy.  That's this scene's primary job.  Scenes in SKU often do double duty, of course, and it's possible that we're also supposed to infer that Wakaba is Utena's only friend, that Utena is scared for herself and not just for Wakaba.  But I don't see any particular reason to think so.  Utena thinks she has plenty of friends.  And that's part of why Utena is so charming, at least to me: she thinks everyone is her friend, at least casually.  She extends her trust easily; she feels betrayal deeply yet can't hold a grudge at all; she thinks people are worth protecting even if she doesn't know them.  That's not all of what friendship is, but it's what friendship means to Utena at age fourteen, and by that standard she has as many friends as she has acquaintances.  Or at least, that's my read!

I see in Utena's easy acceptance of everyone as her friend something like a commentary on anime in general. It is a recurring theme, happens a lot in shounen but often oversteps into other genres, where the MC ends up befriending every single character, at times even including baddies who then become good guys, often with a simple exchange of words. A particular theme is the socially awkward character who will end up relating to the MC and then struggling to ask them to be friends only to have the MC go, "what are you talking about? We're already friends!" accompained by a bright smile.

These days we often have socially inept characters as the main so the troupe may not be as strong as it once was but it is still alive and well. I just saw it the other day in High School Musical, in an all-male cast, played by the book and with the added bursting into song that actually makes sense in-universe.

SKU is deconstructing this common theme along with one that very often comes along with it, in which the MC will blunder their way through a complex previous situation relating to one of the members of the cast and despite having no previous knowledge of it- at all- will managed to if not completely solve them then come very close. This includes estranged friends, siblings, etc. The MC will butt in, be told to mind their place and usually in a particularly emotional scene, be told that they understand nothing. But still, the MC will be rewarded. As for Utena...not so much.

Honestly I think it's more just a case of an extroverted/ outgoing person thinking that you have to be around people and have friends to be happy/ normal. In my experience people who are neither shy nor introverted have a hard time understanding people who are - I don't mean this is a negative sense, just that they feel bad when they see you sitting alone because to them, sitting alone = sad lonely feels. So I don't think it's anything more complicated than Utena naively assuming Anthy being by herself is a 'bad' thing that she must 'fix' and 'save' Anthy from. It could be just that it speaks to me on a very personal level but that's my interpretation.

This is really interesting, I've never thought of it before...but I incline toward CarolineWellwater's view.

Utena is pretty isolated at the start of the show.  She doesn't really have friends, other than Wakaba.  And I have always felt something was off about calling what Utena has with Wakaba "friendship", even though the show makes such a big point of doing so on many occasions.  It always seems like Wakaba wanted to be Utena's friend and Utena just didn't mind, not that Utena deeply reciprocates Wakaba's interest and affection.

And while Utena is never uncomfortable with socializing per se, neither is she portrayed as an extrovert--as someone who seeks out the stimulation of contact with others.  She doesn't exactly start conversations with other people for the sake of it.  When adoring crowds surround her, she doesn't take the opportunity to meet them, she just sort of acknowledges them at most and goes on about her business.

One of Utena's faults (as I've always seen it) is a sort of selfishness.  Her stubborn insistence that she knows best, even when it's clear that she's missing 9/10ths of a situation and having that fact pointed out to her.  Throughout the show, even when she realizes she doesn't understand, she judges.  She has a lot of trouble grokking the feelings, motivations, and actions of people who don't feel, want, or act the way Utena herself would.

These personality traits would align with the observation that Utena might be a bit of a loner.  Someone who isn't deeply interested in other people because she's too preoccupied with herself to really see other people clearly.  Someone who may not be physically isolated, but isn't truly intimate with anyone.  Someone who doesn't really know how have emotional intimacy.

It puts another slant on her obtuseness about Anthy "needing friends", one that I find more realistic--Utena isn't just a know-it-all, she's seeing herself in Anthy.  It explains Utena's attachment to Anthy, too.  Utena actually feels close to Anthy in a way she hasn't ever been close to anyone else.  (Romance explains that too, but I've clearly expressed in the past my meh on that.)

But, then, I assume Wakaba has other friends with very little to support it.  If we were to ask, we might find that Utena's got hobbies and acquaintances it's not important to show us and the creators had notions of how she fills the hours she's "off camera".  She's well-enough known as an athlete to be asked to help out the basketball team in the first episode, after all.

(( Hey all,

I found that this topic had been brought up before.  So... I figured I'd link to it as reference.

http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=2520

There are more thoughts to be found in there.  ))