YamPuff wrote:

Saw this on Facebook and it creeped me out, looks like the 100 boys Nemuro torched.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/ … ursp4.jpeg

Quick, check for mysterious fires on campus!

It's really a thing you realize after watching the op once and I am so ashamed that it took me so long to notice.

Those drops coming from Saionji in the op are not sweat, as I previously thought.

They are TEARS.

The lyrics go 'even if I cry' at that point.

Saionji you poor baby

(TIL I'm dumb)

Nocturnalux wrote:

*Episode two, Saionji's sword rack actually has the ever present rose crest. It amused me greatly.

'Nice rack, Saionji.'

Last edited by Snow (08-01-2015 05:30:47 AM)

KissFromARose wrote:

Moved over from random thread.

No but really, jeez -- how much hair does Utena lose in duels. I get that they are using scenes over and over again, but i mean... im pretty sure you could collect pink fibers on the dueling arena and make a pillow.

SO MUCH HAIR.

It's a trope!

They mention Nanami's mid-duel de-braiding in the trope examples, but there's nothing about Utena.

This might have been really obvious, but in Wakaba's BR episode, we see Anthy just strolling around with the hair clip Saionji made. I always wondered how exactly Anthy wound up with it, but then I realized that Mikage must have given it to "Mamiya" as a present. Taking the hair clip might have even been her idea.

Yeah, that was a lovely bit of visual storytelling, wasn't it?   Mikage definitely asked Saionji for the hairpin in order to drive Wakaba into his elevator, so he must have known Anthy would end up with it.  Maybe Mamiya offered to "give" the pin to Anthy.  Or maybe Akio acted as go-between.  That's a great example of an author leaving out a detail that consumes screentime and doesn't matter much; you get the whole story, at least the important parts, in a few seconds of footage.

(( Nocturnalux,

Just how did Mikage get his hands on it? Did he go scuba diving into the lake?

I think the answer is simpler than you're giving it credit for.

In previous episodes it was suggested that Anthy has some affinity / control over animals.  Usually this has manifested itself as incidents against Nanami.

However, there is a bird theme featured predominately in this duel episode featuring Mikage and Juri and Shiori.  And... there is a freeze-frame bonus as well.  If you stop the show just before the coffin gets tossed into the incinerator, there is a bird alongside the dead duelist.  (As an aside, a number of the coffin cremations have freeze-frame bonus.  Kozue's features a pair in the coffin, and Tsuwabuki's has a child's backpack in the coffin.)  Anyway, this episode is one of the few episodes where Anthy's ability to control animals is used on someone other than Nanami.

So... for me, I always just thought that Anthy had her birds fish out the locket from the lake, and then give it to Mikage... who gives it to Shiori.  If that makes sense.

Though... with my luck... I just pulled an Inspector Lestrade.  ))

I've mentioned in other threads im rewatching with a friend. But occasionally, i will jump ahead to final episodes and rewatch them on my own just to enjoy the feels again. (snorting kool-aid, once again)

but boy am i stupid. I've seen utena n number of times... so many.

Anthy is in a coffin because Utena was in a coffin when she was a kid hiding from the world. Hiding her "self" ... Utena is symbolically opening that coffin and giving anthy that chance to escape and move on. holy fuck.

I feel like an idiot, and my head is exploding.

WELP time for my next rewatch of that episode

In watching episodes 22 and 23 for writing-research, I noticed quite a few things; how convenient that there's already a thread for "revelations that come from excessive watching"!

It was funny to notice the production staff in the wall photographs of Nemuro Memorial Hall, but I finally realised that their presence is really appropriate and not merely a sight gag: they're the creators of Nemuro/Mikage and so indeed form a vital part of his memories!

I did wonder about the image of the hundred boys that appears throughout the BR, because all of the other wall photographs seem to record moments that actually happened.  Then I realised that the shot of them looking up, and the creepy *boom* that accompanies it - which reminded me of the sea of faces surrounding Anthy at the ball, with ominous music underscoring her fear - might have represented Nemuro's first day on the job, perhaps an introduction done deliberately in the most isolating and intimidating manner possible:

"Students, meet your new advisor.  He just got here five minutes ago and is now in charge despite having no idea what's going on, so I'm sure this won't create any sort of resentment.  Have fun!"
*Cue one hundred startled strangers turning around and looking up at whatever staircase or balcony, while Nemuro mentally crawls under a table and dies there.*

I also realised that after Tokiko asks Nemuro if there's anyone special to him, the next shot shows him outdoors, flanked by two students who each hold a tree: a growing thing, one for each person he loves, because Tokiko and Mamiya are both his answer.

And I think, though I'm not sure, that Mamiya's robes are colour-coded to tell you when he's real and when he's not: real Mamiya wears a purple robe the same colour as Nemuro's jacket, the false a red robe that matches Akio/Anthy.

Last edited by Astrinde (02-07-2016 09:33:36 PM)

How about the opposite? I haven't been watching it enough. I'm editing a scan of the shot of Miki imagining Touga on the bed talking BS. And I'm confused because I remember Touga's pants being open.

They're not. It's not even a close enough shot for them to draw it identifiably open.

WHY WAS I SO SURE THEY WERE OPEN???

Astrinde wrote:

"Students, meet your new advisor.  He just got here five minutes ago and is now in charge despite having no idea what's going on, so I'm sure this won't create any sort of resentment.  Have fun!"
*Cue one hundred startled strangers turning around and looking up at whatever staircase or balcony, while Nemuro mentally crawls under a table and dies there.*

This is an interesting mental image but I somehow doubt it went like that. Without a doubt Nemuro's former colleagues are very likely to resent his new position of authority over them but Nemuro would not care or perhaps even notice it. That is part of Nemuro's tragedy, that so much of human experience seems to go not so much over his head as past him entirely.
I canot see social ostracism as something to greatly impact Nemuro and certaintly not something to make him unravel. If his now subordinates refuse to actually do their job and thus hinder him then Nemuro can just have them replaced. But as far as Nemuro sees it, he is the most competent person and the one who should be in charge and he probably expects this to be obvious to everyone. As long as his now subordinates can get along with the program, though, Nemuro does not cre whether they accept his superior status or not.

So no, Nemuro would not be intimidated even by overt resentment and would just get the job done. He just does not prize or is aware of the social element enough.

Last edited by Nocturnalux (02-11-2016 12:57:15 PM)

Astrinde wrote:

Nocturnalux wrote:

So no, Nemuro would not be intimidated even by overt resentment and would just get the job done. He just does not prize or is aware of the social element enough.

I apologise; I meant for the "crawl under the table and die" reaction to be a jest, and I too often forget that my written words don't convey changes in tone and intention. :/ The idea I wanted to express was that the image supports a situation designed to create isolation and resentment, with a new person being placed above the rest in both authoritative and physical position - even if the picture metaphorically represented that idea, rather than a depiction of any actual event.  But the image of the hundred boys is quite striking and unsettling, regardless, and it certainly doesn't need any fanciful scenarios to achieve that effect.

Perhaps it was intimidation of a different sort? When we go back to Anthy's experience at the ball as she is purportedly frightened by the crowd surrounding her, I believe the general canon is that the atmosphere felt too much like the 1000 swords of hate for her to bear it. However, her current manipulative manner allows her to control the duelists emotionally, though it is unknown exactly how much a part Akio plays in that facet. So why not emotionally control the entire crowd? That crowd is alike to the mob that surrounded rallying against Anthy in Prince Dios's name, except now they are in Akio's power. The difference between the individual and the herd is a repeated theme in SKU, in particular because it is an integral part in determining identity in adolescence. In a sense, Anthy retains her state of adolescence as Akio, being an adult, twists her world around to in order to make her conform as much as possible. Her strange loyalty to her brother, whether moral or no, remains an integral part of herself.

With Nemuro, I see the Boys of the Black Rose as an attack on his identity, for neither has Nemuro actually grown up. That's why he, or his ghost, lingers at Ohtori and ends up facilitating the second arc. The derisive comments that rise from the boys are not an attack on Nemuro's pride, but his sense of self. For all his genius, Nemuro does not want to be a computer, but his very being is not built for relationships of the sort Tokiko and Mamiya know. That turns into the corrupted dynamic we see the three take on. Nemuro wants revolution in order for himself to obtain love and humanity, but being the cold genius he is, the ways he goes about doing it are completely wrong, i.e., purely through physical and social control. The image is unsettling, however, because Nemuro does not control the boys in the way he thought he could. The boys have the emotional natures and the passion Nemuro craves, which is why they come closer to Revolution first and why Nemuro commits arson to stop them.

Akio does wield power over emotion, and thus in reality (however much reality is actually present in SKU) is the one in control of the boys, just like Dios controlled the mob. Utena has the same passion as the Black Rose boys, thus giving the current Nemuro known as Mikage reason to want to bring her down. Akio deals in emotions, making Utena and the duelists a threat to Nemuro. As such, each of the duelists in connected to one or more Black Rose Boys in the Black Rose Arc. To Utena and the Black Rose Boys, emotion and relationships are means to an end, but to Nemuro, they are the end he sought through the uilization of control. As their professor, he can control everything but the boys' emotions, which is, in reality, a more volatile position from Nemuro's perspective. He gives their emotions direction through his own knowledge, but in his position can do nothing to stop this exploitation of self Akio set up. This connects back to Anthy's plight where her own emotions turn their back on her when harnessed by the mob. As Mikage, Nemuro uses the confession elevator to profit off the emotions of the people surrounding the duelists, but he fails continually because the projection of emotion and hate channeled is still not deep enough. "Go deeper" becomes a desperate cry for Nemuro as he tries to fill his own emptinesses.

So, as I see it, the Black Rose Boys seem to Akio's over-the-top taunt reminding Nemuro of his lack of real emotion and his obsession with control. This gives Akio leverage for when Utena and the new round of duelists appear because identity and desire are Akio's two primary currencies. But that's just my take.

Nocturnalux wrote:

I always wondered whether Anthy really is as upset in the ball scene or if she is not actually manipulating Utena through it all. It may be a mixture of both, Anthy is entirely capable of using her trauma to channel distress but I cannot help thinking she was not simply terrified.

Very true! It reminds me of the episode where Anthy tries to commit suicide, resulting in Utena pursuing her quest with even more fervor. How much is true pain and how much is manipulation, in any situation? (and thank you for the compliment)