This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#26 | Back to Top07-02-2007 07:14:33 AM

Wolfio
Miki Molester
Registered: 06-13-2007
Posts: 36

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Well, that would work. emot-biggrin

I know this is weird, but the thing that kept me watching past the first arc was the duel songs. I knew if they focused that much on character that watching would (hopefully) be worth it.

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#27 | Back to Top07-02-2007 08:19:31 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Wolfio wrote:

Well, that would work. emot-biggrin

I know this is weird, but the thing that kept me watching past the first arc was the duel songs. I knew if they focused that much on character that watching would (hopefully) be worth it.

I'm glad that the English dubbers left the original songs in, could you imagine what could have happened if they did the same thing to the SKU musical score as they did to the Sailor Moon musical score or worse, the One Piece music? *shudders*

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#28 | Back to Top07-02-2007 08:29:33 AM

Arki
Dark Whisperer
From: Croatia
Registered: 10-28-2006
Posts: 1123

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Wow, that looks more painful than movie Akio leaping across a car. Then again, I don't think even a device like this could persuade a person into liking that. >:

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#29 | Back to Top07-04-2007 09:16:35 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I've been babbling about it for years and none of my friends have ever really expressed an interest in watching it.  I've suggested it upon occasion.  I've had it on the TV and asked them to watch; they just don't want to.  When someone has, it hasn't held their interest.

I don't mind that much, but it's kind of disappointing not to have anyone who will get my Utena references in everyday life.

I guess it's not a show for everyone.  Like Archambeau said.

I've even had several friends with whom I watched anime--couldn't even get them to watch it.  I recently made a new acquaintance at work who likes anime and he said he'd watched the first few episodes and found it boring.  I then explained that it gets more intense as it goes along and he went for this tactic: "Oh, yeah, well, I could tell from what I saw, 'This is going to get old really fast and have to go for shock value'."  Pff.

So I've had 0 success there.

The reason I got interested in the first place was because it had a chick with a sword who seemed likely to beat all the boys, proving everyone wrong (I am fond of that sort of thing).  I think that's why it was such a big O_O WOW for me when events started to mature and change.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (07-04-2007 09:21:16 PM)


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#30 | Back to Top07-04-2007 11:36:59 PM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

I got into SKU because I had just gotten into Princess Tutu, and several people said I would probably like SKU if I liked Tutu. I ended up loving SKU, even more than Tutu. Much, much more. It's probably the series I'm most obsessed with. And now I am checking out Serial Experiments Lain because some people said SKU fans might like it.

Then logically, Lain fans should like SKU, too. Gotta try that some time.
Also, if you like Lain you should watch Haibane Renmei. It's one of the most beautiful and unique animes out there. etc-love Haibane was also the first anime to make it into my anime top 2 list (well, actually there was only one other anime in that list before. I suppose it's not hard to guess what it was... emot-tongue). Lain is great too, it makes much more sense as I'm watching it again, overall I'd say Lain is my 3rd favorite.

Anyway! So far I've made 3 Estonians watch SKU. Maybe even 4, but I dunno if he actually got a chance to see it. He was very interested in it, though.

I don't really recommend it to anyone, either. Open-minded people, philosophy teachers and those who want to see something different would most likely enjoy SKU. I depends a lot on the person. And sadly, most people get the wrong first impression of the series thanks to the first few episodes. emot-mad
Then again, I was hooked on it the second I saw the spinning roses. I had never seen anything like that before, and after I saw the duels it became my instant favorite.


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Believing in True Friendship Since 2008.

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#31 | Back to Top07-05-2007 06:04:15 AM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6342
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Got a friend interested in it recently, too. But, since she's currently doing intern in India until August, she won't have access to anime whatsoever, but she says she'd keep in mind.

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#32 | Back to Top07-05-2007 06:29:58 AM

Mylene
Fighting Evil By Moonlight
From: Next to Paradox
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 3704

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I simply suggested SKU to two of my friends who like anime.  One owns the entire series and really liked it (although I'm not sure at what 'level'.)  The other has only seen part due to Netflix not having a lot of the series anymore and her current inability to 'access' the rest by other means.  She likes it fairly well (particularly Anthy), but I'm not sure she'll ever become just a raging fan due to her tendency to go for things like Shaman King and Fullmetal Alchemist.  Not that there's anything wrong with either series, but they're much more action-oriented (with some depth, just not to SKU levels).  Still, she recently watched and enjoyed Haibane Renmei, so here's hoping she'll enjoy it by the end.

I personally didn't really love SKU until after the last episode.  And I didn't like many characters until the second time watching (i.e., I hated Nanami and Juri and didn't really care about Anthy until I saw where their characters went, and then I loved them the second time around.)  The best thing about SKU for me was the fact that I actually liked the title character as my favorite character.  The only other main character that I had liked at that time was Vash from Trigun, and I still preferred Wolfwood.  But with SKU, not only did I like Utena, but she was my fave.  Not to mention actually coming across an understandable and convincing villain in Akio!

Right, right, getting people to watch SKU.  I think going from SKU to Princess Tutu is much easier than going from Princess Tutu to SKU.  PT is pretty cool, and has certain similar elements, but it really lacks the "whoa" factor that SKU has, and I've found that PT fans sometimes can't handle that.  I know the girl who recommended PT to me (I was about to watch it anyway, but it was nice to have another recommendation for it) said I'd like it if I liked SKU, but she herself couldn't get into the "cracktastic" feeling of SKU.

SKU isn't something I'd recommend to anyone aside from close friends who would just immediately buy or rent it, so I wouldn't have much else to do with their viewing.  I can't really imagine watching it with anyone else, just because those first few episodes can be really hit or miss, and I don't like sitting there going "Don't worry, just give it time.  The awesomeness is yet to come."  Makes me sound a bit more crazy than I like to sound, even to close friends.   I liked those early episodes because I'm all into the shoujo junk, but someone looking for the purported SKU mindf*ck might get their doubts.  Most people I know just aren't as patient as I am when it comes to anime (no matter how bad it is, I will finish the series.)  The symbolism and everything else that followed up the ultra-shoujo moments, adding interesting depth the series, was just icing on the cake for me.  In some ways, I think I still love SKU more for the simple elements (maybe why I actually enjoyed the manga?) than the symbolism, etc, even though I love those added thought-provoking elements.

As for a plan, I really don't know.  SKU isn't a show for everyone, as I'm sure we all can agree, and sometimes I'm not sure I even want to share it.  It's just not easy to get, and quite often if you don't love it, you really dislike it, and I'd prefer to keep the opinion of the series much higher than that.  ^_-

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#33 | Back to Top07-17-2007 05:11:04 PM

alirias
Yaoi Pet Pet
Registered: 06-15-2007
Posts: 729
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Step one: Seduce victim. Step two: Tell victim about IFD, IRG, and all that jazz. Step three: Introduce victim to Giovanna and Frosty.

Worked for Shattered!


"I do not need Rule 34 of The Simpsons and Scooby-Doo when I'm looking for good porn." -ShatteredMirror

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#34 | Back to Top07-18-2007 09:57:07 PM

Shiva Indis
Juri Jeerer
From: Kashira-sei
Registered: 07-08-2007
Posts: 48

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Problems introducing people to Utena:

Bizarre aesthetics, even for shoujo. This could be comical if the show took itself a little less seriously, but it's not that sort of a parody.

Repetitious. Part of the reason we're here is because we accept and appreciate the show's rituals, but it grates on some people's nerves regardless of the director's intent. Mustn't neglect that a lot of footage snippets got reused just to keep costs down, too, which does not reflect well in this age of digital animation.

Duel choruses. Blasphemy, you cry! Well, my musician roommate complains to me when I listen to them, especially the Banyuu Inryoku ones. "Will they kill the drum machine already?" "I hate it when the instruments play the same things as the singers." emot-rolleyes

Less-than-ideal DVD transfer. Especially bad in the first part. Oh, if only they would remaster the TV series!

I've had better luck starting people on the movie. It always amazes people, even if they have no idea what to make of it.

Last edited by Shiva Indis (07-18-2007 09:58:36 PM)


I am an actor cast eternally,                                    Armless, legless, still existing I am,   
The eternal me and the eternal stranger,                     I am all the mysteries in creation, 
Male/female, positive/negative are the two of me,                 My birth, the absolute birth,
Even light casts shadows, making a pair out of me and me,                I am disconnected,

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#35 | Back to Top07-19-2007 12:11:18 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

alirias wrote:

Step one: Seduce victim. Step two: Tell victim about IFD, IRG, and all that jazz. Step three: Introduce victim to Giovanna and Frosty.

Worked for Shattered!

Hells yeah! And now you like it!

I am so smooth. That's why I'm sexier than James Bond (Brosnan edition).


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#36 | Back to Top07-22-2007 07:25:23 AM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Kapria and I have pulled and all-nighter [well, now she's asleep, but I'm still up]. Because of my ranting and raving endlessly at her about thinking Shiori was a horrible bitch, she's decided that she wants to watch SKU. She fell asleep around the end of episode 26, but I'd say we did well for one sitting, considering she made me pause several times and explain certain things. I'm glad she's watching it, but I really wanted to turn it off several times. I'd explained more than once that SKU is not like normal anime. You can't think of it that way. You really can't just hate people one moment, then like them, then hate them. You have to accept everything, good and bad. For Touga, "I think he's sexy, oh my god, what a jerk! Oh damn, he's fine." or, the far more annoying perspective on Nanami, "What a bitch, oh my god, I hate her! Oh, now she's crying, poor girl. Man, she really loves him. Oh, what the hell, she's a fucking bitch, she needs to die. Aw, her brother shouldn't have done that, poor girl." Augh. I know she won't be able to accept the way SKU works right away, but it was really getting annoying. She feels so sorry for Anthy, and says everyone is treating her so badly, she doesn't deserve this, ect. I told her Anthy was probably the most manipulative bitch in the entire series, and she flat out told me that wasn't true! Excuse me, whose DVDs are you watching right now? That's what I thought. Anyway, she's decided that she likes ChuChu and Wakaba right now. I like ChuChu just fine, and I absolutely love Wakaba, but I really wish she would open her mind up just a little bit.

Oh, the funniest thing of the night was "Maybe after tonight, I'll be a fan like you." Hah, yeah, why don't you tack on about 4 years of backbreaking research and a good dictionary's worth of ranting and interpretations to last night.

I'm sorry if that sounded bitchy, but SKU is something important to me, and I want her to be more than those "fans" who hate everyone who isn't just sweet and innocent, and hate almost every character with any real depth to them.


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#37 | Back to Top07-22-2007 09:19:48 AM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

dollface wrote:

SKU is something important to me, and I want her to be more than those "fans" who hate everyone who isn't just sweet and innocent, and hate almost every character with any real depth to them.

I know what you mean... Sure, I like lots of anime, but SKU is on a whole different level when it comes to describing why I like it; it's a series that creeps into your soul and becomes a part of you.


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#38 | Back to Top07-22-2007 09:36:15 AM

Mylene
Fighting Evil By Moonlight
From: Next to Paradox
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 3704

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I don't mean to be...hmm...argumentative, but just because people enjoy the series differently than you do, and prefer the "innocent" characters to the "not-so-innocent" characters (or what have you), that doesn't make them any less of a fan.  A different fan, but hardly "less" of a fan.  Everyone is different, reacts to things differently, and considers concepts like "depth of character" differently.  If that weren't the case, this world would be a terribly boring place.  SKU is a show that can be enjoyed in a million different ways--and I'd say none of those ways are particularly wrong.

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#39 | Back to Top07-22-2007 09:41:50 AM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

There's still hope that people notice the actual depth of the series later on. For me it was basically the same thing. Heh, I didn't even really get it when I first saw it to the end. When I rewatched it, however, I found a lot more interesting things that I hadn't noticed before. Also, reading some analysis made me think there's much more to SKU than it first seems so when I watched it again I started to pay attention and to analyse it myself.


The Saionji Support Squad:
Believing in True Friendship Since 2008.

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#40 | Back to Top07-22-2007 11:03:22 AM

Frau Eva
Voodoo Queen
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I understand wanting your friends to understand on as deeply a level as you, but I think you're being a little harsh on her. You're expecting her to know things--like about Anthy's full personality--that are at the very end of the series. You seem sort of judgmental when she doesn't have the same opinion of Anthy as you do, or any other character for that matter. I mean, let's face it, it would be downright insane at the early part of the series to think Anthy is evil when the only hints that are there only make sense in hindsight.

And even if she sees the whole thing, she may still think Anthy doesn't deserve that treatment. Heck, while I know Anthy is far from innocent, I still personally don't think she deserves all that. You'd be upset if someone said that of Shiori, wouldn't you? Let her have her opinions. Just don't knock them down by saying how long you've studied it, etc. When it comes to opinions about symbolism and characters, no one is more "right" than anyone else. *resists urge to go into Literary Theory, nerd urges rising!*

If you're kind of snobby about this, then she's never going to get into it because it's never going to be "hers." If she's going to have to compete with you just to have an opinion of her own, then she's not going to talk about it with you, or worse, refuse to watch it anymore. Be sure not to put Utena over your friendship.

Again, this could not be to the extent that I'm warning against, but that's the situation presented in your comment. I just want to make sure that you all get what you want, and all end up happy. emot-biggrin


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#41 | Back to Top07-22-2007 11:53:40 AM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Edited to remove dollface acting like a stupid jerk.

Last edited by dollface (07-22-2007 12:02:38 PM)


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#42 | Back to Top07-22-2007 01:35:10 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Frau Eva wrote:

I understand wanting your friends to understand on as deeply a level as you, but I think you're being a little harsh on her.

I understand dollface wanting her friend to understand SKU the same way she does too, that's why I don't think it's necessarily being harsh. I think we can all agree that for a lot of us, SKU is almost....intimate. We aren't necessarily just sharing a cool TV show with someone when we show it to them, and dollface has definitely stated repeatedly she's one of us that sees SKU as the former. It's understandable that she would be a bit touchy about sharing it with a friend that's not quite seeing it her way, she's sharing more than the series, and it's not the series being misinterpreted that she's having trouble with. I can see it being like standing in front of a mirror with someone, pointing at your reflection, and having them grossly disagree with what you say they're looking at. Or worse, not even trying to understand what they're seeing. But that could be anyone's mistake, you can't always trust people to realize that you're talking about yourself, not Shiori. We do, but we're all doing that on here. emot-smile

Edit: Yasha is being a complete pain in the ass while I write this, looking over my shoulder at my laptop and stealing bites of my blueberry pancakes that J made. emot-mad emot-mad emot-mad I should beat her.

Last edited by Giovanna (07-22-2007 01:36:39 PM)


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#43 | Back to Top07-22-2007 03:25:30 PM

MissMocha
Bettie Page Princess
From: Tallahassee, Fl
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 4632

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Giovanna wrote:

Edit: Yasha is being a complete pain in the ass while I write this, looking over my shoulder at my laptop and stealing bites of my blueberry pancakes that J made. emot-mad emot-mad emot-mad I should beat her.

Oh my god. A beautiful woman stealing pancakes that a very accomodating guy made for you. Jesus. What torture. How will you ever survive? emot-rolleyes

dollface, I understand your position, but wonder if maybe you're expecting a lot -although I can understand how the "fan like you" comment would be exasperating. A show like Utnea can require a LOT of patience when getting poeple interested in it, and trying to make them understand that they can't make typical anime plotline stereotypes.  After all, we're still finding new ways of looking at characters and motivations, and we're fans of the scariest sort.

I don't really try to intro people to Utena, though, so what do I know? My best friend knows it and loves it, and I'm sure she's aware the forum exists as she loves EM as much as I do (she was shocked when I told her I went to visit Gio in Miami). She hasn't signed up tho, and I've never encouraged it because I don't really think it's her thing. SHe has some stunning and brilliant insight into the show though.


The first time you looked at her curves you were hooked
And the glances you took, took hold of you and demanded that you stay
And sunk in their teeth, bit your heart and released
Such a charge that you need another touch, another taste, another fix

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#44 | Back to Top07-22-2007 03:40:02 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I can understand that, to some degree. Of the two people I tried to introduce the show to back in uni, one only focused on the shallow things (and although I can do the patented "ZOMG AKIO IS SO FUCKING HOT!" squee with the best of them, I do want to go deeper...in more ways than one, I swear! etc-wankgirl) and I fell out with the second before he could see the whole thing. Although he seemed to get it, which makes me sad. emot-frown Maybe one day I'll ensnare someone in the web... school-devil


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

Beyond The Silver Leaves

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#45 | Back to Top07-22-2007 03:46:04 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I know I'm probably being selfish and maybe a little snobby, but I just really don't want to introduce someone to this if they aren't going to be able to fully handle it. Yes, maybe I am selfish, yes, maybe I do force my opinions on people. But, she's never seen the show, she asks about characters and their motives all the time, am I just supposed to pretend I have no bias whatsoever? Maybe I'm wrong to get so defensive over Shiori on here, but if you're sitting on the couch across from me, calling my favorite character [of not only this anime, but all anime] a selfish, greedy, horrible bitch, do you honestly expect I won't try and defend her? I guess I can see myself being in the wrong for that, but that will in no way be able to stop me. I mean, I know I don't know the series as well as some people, and I'm not trying to be "that guy" [Does that term apply to girls? I would imagine.], but after all the research I've done on astrology, psychology, color symbolism, mythology, art, astrology, religion, and any form of literature I can get my hands onto, just so I can understand this show to the best of my ability? I may not have been watching for 10 years, but I've been pouring my heart and soul into understand every aspect of Shiori and many other characters for almost 5 years. I think I've earned a little bit of a right to try and inform people. I'm not saying she has to like the characters I like, or that how I see things is the right way to see things. But, as silly as it sounds, letting her watch this is letting her into a very intimate part of my adolescence. For her to put in as little effort as she seems to... it kind of hurts me. I hope I can be forgiven for seeming rude, at least this time.


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#46 | Back to Top07-22-2007 03:54:17 PM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
Website

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

It may be that your friend doesn't understand how personal this is for you. It's understandable, most people wouldn't expect you to be so deeply affected by a "cartoon".emot-wink It's also something you may not be able to express in a short amount of time. Try to be patient with her, hopefully she'll get it eventually.

Actually...but that goes in another thread.


"The devil want me as is, but god he want more."
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#47 | Back to Top07-22-2007 09:14:48 PM

xxkiriyamaxx
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 07-12-2007
Posts: 16

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

Imaginary Bad Bug wrote:

"SKU is Evangelion except with roses and duels instead of biomechs."

Exactly this is the line I say to get people to watch Utena. However, The first people I got to watch it where non-otaku, so this description didn't really worked exactly, but then I just related to stuff they know: I have a friend who happens to read lots of Conspiracy theories (laughs are inserted here) and I just related how the Illuminati control the world to the Seitokai in the school and how the battles are secret just like all the Illuminati shit is supposed to be "secret" (Yeah right...). Another friend of mine is highly feminist, so I say that Utena is the prototype of the women's rights fighter.... kinda... because, well, she defends Anthy for being treated like an object.

Even though my description to these two seemed to be very shallow, (and G rated, coz I always leave aside the sexual lesbian gay rapist incestual stuff) it worked. I believe that the reason why we're here ranting 10 years later about this show is because it's one of a hell anime, one of a kind. A show that can trascend time and space is likely to be considered a masterpiece of art, and mostly, those masterpieces are universal, so everyone can relate at any point to the series, with the proper guiding since Utena is not an easy show.

That would be another tip: Guiding.
I believe also that any work has some underlying speech about particular topics on the mind of the author. Incounciosly (dunno If I spelled that rite) the author can and will place his particular viewpoint on the topic, and the proper knowledge of those viewpoints can help out to clarify the hidden message on it. The same goes for Utena, basicaly is not so difficult if you pay just a little bit more of attention, and that's exactly why I like it, because every time I see it, I find something different, like when I watched it with my Conspiracy pal, he pointed out some gnostic stuff, like Anthy and Utena being at some point the Sophia, and how the Monomyth and the Hero archetype relates to the show.

So, to sum it up, grab as much people as you can to watch the show.

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#48 | Back to Top07-23-2007 01:10:30 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

dollface wrote:

You really can't just hate people one moment, then like them, then hate them.

This stood out to me because it's pretty much exactly how I feel about my boss. And with characters, you can't really make up your mind about the whole character until you've seen the whole character.

As for sharing and whatnot, I first watched SKU about a year ago now. I've only shared it with ali so far and she hasn't seen all of it yet. I don't expect her to adore Ruka but I do think she'll have a little more sympathy for him than most Juri or Shiori fans do. But then, I'm not as invested in him as a lot of fans are in their favorite characters.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#49 | Back to Top07-23-2007 01:33:30 AM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I'm getting into this kind of late, but dollface, I can relate to what you're going through.

I think that there are just some people who can watch Utena, and really get into it, and there are others who can only enjoy the most basic form of the plot. I've mentioned this before, but I would definitely react the same way as you if one of my friends hated Shiori. After showing them up to episode 17, I always, always ramble on to my friends about why Shiori did what she did, and make sure that they understand that she's not just an evil bitch.

I've had a few hit and misses when it comes to showing my friends Utena. One of them loved it, but her favorite character was Chu-Chu. Once again, I think I've mentioned this before, but it really bothers me when people choose Chu-Chu as a favorite character. It makes me feel as though they aren't really appreciating the series to its fullest, and so I felt as though my friend didn't love the series the same way that I did. I can't even get Kealdrea to decide on a favorite character anymore, but thank God it isn't Chu-Chu.

On the other hand, maybe your friend just needs time to become a true fan. Her views on series sound a lot like mine when I first got into SKU. What makes a true fan in my book is someone who is willing to go back in the series, and figure things out that they didn't understand before.

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#50 | Back to Top07-23-2007 12:21:26 PM

Frau Eva
Voodoo Queen
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Getting People to Watch Utena?

I understand that it is very personal to you guys, as it is to me. I had an experience when I tried to show an ex-boyfriend Utena, who I figured would appreciate it since he's such a symbolism snob. I think the point at which I snapped was when he called the chick speech "retarded." I...urgh, he wasn't allowed to watch it from then on. emot-mad

But I think some things are unreasonable. The series is very, very close to me; you can see its influence in just about any creative endeavor of mine. But it's almost like sharing your writing. If you want to actually share something so close and personal to you, you're going to have to suck it up to a certain extent and accept that people may see fault with it. If you're incredibly defensive about it, then no one's going to want to deal with the emotional maelstom that comes with viewing it. Something can be close to you and you can still not take things personally as long as its contructive. Hell, I think the same thing is appropriate of even literary theorists getting way too bent out of shape over disagreements of theory(like Harold Bloom, the crotchety old baby *shakes fist*). I don't make distinctions with anything. There's just a point when things start bordering on wanky. Also, note that what I'm saying here in this paragraph does not necessarily speak of the dollface situation, since I was not there and am not qualified to say that this actually applies. I'm just saying that a line exists in general.

But as far as the actual situation goes, it's very hard to tell who's doing what from comments. It's all a question of degree. If she's constantly bagging on Shiori for absolutely no reason--especially if she's not even on-screen--then that's rude when she knows Shiori's your favorite character. It's always rude to go on and on about how much you hate something your friend likes--it doesn't matter if its anime, music, or anything else. That's annoying to anyone, ever. But if she makes a comment just when Shiori is doing something, well, bitchy? I think that's reasonable to react. Even though my favorite is Touga, I can watch him being a bastard and say, "God, what a skank." Infact...I usually do. emot-tongue So take whatever I say with a grain of salt, all according to the situation.

Although this all brings up something I've randomly been feeling lately...I've honestly just been getting the impression that no one can say anything bad about Shiori here without getting a lecture about motivations. I understand her motivations, I sympathize with her teenage angst, but can I just say that she acts like a crazy bitch sometimes? I know it's mostly because she's been maligned for so long by many fans, but...it seems like the board is overall pretty accepting of all the characters. It seems like a similar thing with Juri fans back in the day, who could never admit that it's pretty much her own fault she's still moping around like an emotard. But this could just be an impression, and I'm just gauging things.


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