One thing, is I would swap the Haste and Lure abilities in the elevator cycle.  Not major, but it would work better color-wise.

Also, I notice some general themes starting to emerge in the design.  A very strong 'duel mechanic' where the attacker gets a much larger role than normal in determining how blocking occurs.  (And at the rate we're coming up with cards, we can probably get a whole small expansion out of this if it keeps up.)  Maybe someone could design some on-theme sorceries and instants to counter that tendency?  Blue I suspect should be given some extra Stifle-like oomph, since activated abilities will clearly be very important here.  Also, I'm gonna come up with some preliminary places in the color-pie where various characters and their theme cards should probably go.

Saionji:  G
Miki: U
Juri:  W
Nanami:  R
Touga: B

Utena:  W/R
Anthy:  U/B/G
Akio:  U/B
Mikage:  W/B

Any major ones I missed?

Edit:  Gave Anthy green.  I think I'll also edit her card to reflect that.

Himemiya Anthy
2BUUG
Legendary Creature - Human Witch
X:  Put an X/X animal token with haste into play.  At end of turn, sacrifice all animal tokens you control
UU, T: Search your deck for target equipment card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
~This~ cannot be equipped.
1/4

Last edited by CMK (11-30-2006 10:19:29 PM)

Heh, caught me just as I was doing it.

Also, just a thought, but I was thinking about taking the Student Council a bit beyond a cycle and almost doing a 'mini-guild' around each one.  Each would have the following directly around them

Character Card:  Naturally.  All are legends.

Bride Card:  The character who served as their Rose Bride during their final duel.  Also legends.

Black Rose Duelist:  The person who pulled a sword from their chest.  Also legends.

Instant:  Some commonly-associated action.  Since Nanami's red, she gets an extra one instead of a Bride Card (since Touga is her bride)

Sorcery:  A thematic event associated with the character.  Miki gets two.

Enchantment:  These would be the 'victory condition' each duelist wants from the game.  "Power of Miracles" "Something Eternal" etc.  Saionji should get another on-theme enchantment for after his Akio arc duel.

Touga comes up a card short.  Not sure what his extra should be, though.

Last edited by CMK (11-30-2006 10:14:26 PM)

satyreyes wrote:

I do want to warn you, re the Imprint stuff, that while it's quite cool in concept it's confusing in execution.  As Maro says, figure out what's cool and take out the rest.

Yeah.  Last time I played at any sort of serious level was during Mirrodin block.  I understand how Imprint works implicitly, but it was one of the nastier mechanics of the block.  I think I made a mistake in assuming everyone would grasp it quickly.

To clarify for everyone who wasn't there, during Mirrodin there were several artifacts with an Imprint ability.  This required you to sacrifice or discard something to the 'out of play' zone as you played the artifact.  That card is then "Imprinted" onto the played artifact.  The card would take on some aspect of the imprinted card (there was even one that would let you tap it and pay 2 to cast an imprinted spell.)

Where Soul Sword differs is that there is no Imprint ability on the card, and instead several cards in the set expand on Imprinting by allowing you to Imprint outside of the limits set out in Mirrodin.  Note that these cards were specifically worded so they'd interact with those older cards in the same way as they do with Soul Sword.

The fact that it took this long to explain means the set either needs to have separate Imprint cards (So Soul Sword has some sort of internal reference point), or this mini-theme should be discarded.

I am one for keeping this in, as it makes a lot of sense, especially on the Black Rose saga parts. I'm sure it will be adjusted to.

CMK wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

I do want to warn you, re the Imprint stuff, that while it's quite cool in concept it's confusing in execution.  As Maro says, figure out what's cool and take out the rest.

Yeah.  Last time I played at any sort of serious level was during Mirrodin block.  I understand how Imprint works implicitly, but it was one of the nastier mechanics of the block.  I think I made a mistake in assuming everyone would grasp it quickly.

To clarify for everyone who wasn't there, during Mirrodin there were several artifacts with an Imprint ability.  This required you to sacrifice or discard something to the 'out of play' zone as you played the artifact.  That card is then "Imprinted" onto the played artifact.  The card would take on some aspect of the imprinted card (there was even one that would let you tap it and pay 2 to cast an imprinted spell.)

Where Soul Sword differs is that there is no Imprint ability on the card, and instead several cards in the set expand on Imprinting by allowing you to Imprint outside of the limits set out in Mirrodin.  Note that these cards were specifically worded so they'd interact with those older cards in the same way as they do with Soul Sword.

The fact that it took this long to explain means the set either needs to have separate Imprint cards (So Soul Sword has some sort of internal reference point), or this mini-theme should be discarded.

The idea of Soul Sword having Imprint or an Imprint-like ability is too cool to ditch.  I'm not sure the part about needing another card to make something imprint onto Soul Sword is cool, though.  Unless we're going to end up with several cards with Imprint, it might be simpler to do something smaller and more explicit.  Something along the lines of "When you play Soul Sword, remove a creature you control from the game.  Creatures Soul Sword equips have the keywords and activated abilities of the creature you removed."

Side note: yes.  No card should refer to other specific cards unless there is a really good reason.  This has virtually never been done in "real" MTG, because it's confusing and limiting.  There are better ways to adjust a card's power flavorfully.

Last edited by satyreyes (11-30-2006 10:48:57 PM)

satyreyes wrote:

CMK wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

I do want to warn you, re the Imprint stuff, that while it's quite cool in concept it's confusing in execution.  As Maro says, figure out what's cool and take out the rest.

Yeah.  Last time I played at any sort of serious level was during Mirrodin block.  I understand how Imprint works implicitly, but it was one of the nastier mechanics of the block.  I think I made a mistake in assuming everyone would grasp it quickly.

To clarify for everyone who wasn't there, during Mirrodin there were several artifacts with an Imprint ability.  This required you to sacrifice or discard something to the 'out of play' zone as you played the artifact.  That card is then "Imprinted" onto the played artifact.  The card would take on some aspect of the imprinted card (there was even one that would let you tap it and pay 2 to cast an imprinted spell.)

Where Soul Sword differs is that there is no Imprint ability on the card, and instead several cards in the set expand on Imprinting by allowing you to Imprint outside of the limits set out in Mirrodin.  Note that these cards were specifically worded so they'd interact with those older cards in the same way as they do with Soul Sword.

The fact that it took this long to explain means the set either needs to have separate Imprint cards (So Soul Sword has some sort of internal reference point), or this mini-theme should be discarded.

The idea of Soul Sword having Imprint or an Imprint-like ability is too cool to ditch.  I'm not sure the part about needing another card to make something imprint onto Soul Sword is cool, though.  Unless we're going to end up with several cards with Imprint, it might be simpler to do something smaller and more explicit.  Something along the lines of "When you play Soul Sword, remove a creature you control from the game.  Creatures Soul Sword equips have the keywords and activated abilities of the creature you removed."

The ultimate idea behind Soul Sword not being able to imprint on its' own is to give them the flexibility they have in the show without needing multiple cards.  Perhaps instead leave the other Imprint additions alone, give Soul Sword an Imprint ability but limit it in some major way so that using the more complicated methods pays off bigger?

Example

Soul Sword
4
Artifact - Equipment
Imprint -- When ~this~ comes into play you may remove a nontoken, nonlegend creature with a casting cost 4 or less from the game.
Only one card may be Imprinted on ~This~
Equipped creature gets +X/+Y, where X is the imprinted creature's power and Y is the imprinted creature's toughness.
Equip 3

Hmm, the only problem I see with this is, that won't some of the Student Council cost more then 4 to play? Which technically speaking would be above the soul sword's power.

EDIT: Or was that the purpose of the Soul Sword?

Last edited by Xu Yuan (11-30-2006 11:03:26 PM)

Ah... prefect! Make them actually work to imprint the big guys! I'll create the soul sword right away then.




Fixed agian... I hope.

Last edited by Xu Yuan (11-30-2006 11:22:35 PM)

Okay, a quick glance through Gatherer tells me that the design's not so cut and dried.  While none of the cards outright break if exposed to other sources of imprinting, some of them weren't designed especially well if such effects are available.  Isochron Scepter, for example, DOES work with Instants costing more than two mana.  Some of the wordings also become awkward if you're not an expert with the Comprehensive Rules.  Still, it wouldn't be an interesting Johnny concept if it didn't have some weird rules interactions.

satyreyes wrote:

You know, Wizards releases expansions in three installments.  Utena has... lessee... three seasons.  Wouldn't it be fun if we had the resources to design an entire expansion?  The big "REVOLUTIONARY GIRL UTENA" set in fall, followed by smaller sets called "The Black Rose Saga" and "Apocalypse?"

Wishful thinking

Not sure there's quite enough material for that. (635 cards, I think.)   On the other hand, I think there's enough for a stand-alone Small Expansion (165 cards) if we stretch it out a little.  The real trick will be common and uncommon critters.  I've got five, but we'll need to make up some things....maybe try to fill in around with elements of normal school life that would be...a little different with Akio around.

Edit:  On that note, IF we want to go down that route, I think a collaborative database on Google Docs would be helpful.  I'd need a Gmail invite though.

Last edited by CMK (11-30-2006 11:55:55 PM)

And a few 'just for fun' animal summoning cards.

"Oh, that's Mr. Mongoose!"
The glowing eyes inside of Anthy's drawer
Instant
1G
Put a 1/1 Mongoose token into play under your control
Play ~this~ only outside of combat.

Elephant Herd
Any of the more bizarre elephant pictures
Sorcery
4XG
Put X 3/3 elephant tokens into play.
If you did not play Elephant Herd, remove it from the game if it would be sent to the graveyard.
Flashback:  XX life (you may play this card from the graveyard by paying its' flashback cost and removing it from the game.)

Edit:  XX life to mean "you pay X life twice"  A 3/3 can be worth two life, but not one, certainly not in Green.

Last edited by CMK (12-01-2006 11:40:43 AM)

Musical Henchman
1R
Creature - Henchman
Haste
If you control three or more cards named ~this~, ~this~ gets double-strike
A deck can have any number of cards named ~this.~
2/2

Edit:  Changed the cost to be a little more in line with Relentless Rats.  Double-strike is good, but it's nowhere near THAT good.

Last edited by CMK (12-01-2006 09:44:04 AM)

Oh god you people rock and I want to participate but I don't remember the rules well enough and you're all using newfangled Shadow and this that and the other thing.

I was playing Mirage for god's sake. (Actually the deck I did keep, because it's almost entirely rares, is mostly Invasion-era.)