In the Rose Garden / [Fanfic][2012]Seinen Kakumei Utena: yes, it's the actual fic itself

Honey Bear · Back to Top

Read the first two chapters so far and am enjoying it.

I like especially what you did with Miki and Kozue. I can just see her as a druggie!

Something that's been bothering me the whole way through though; the cast seem to know too much. Either Juri and Shiori refer to Anthy as a witch at some point, but I don't think in the series it was ever explained to the other duelists what Anthy actually was (I could be wrong. If I am, ignore me.) Utena is also referred to as the Victor; did the other duelists ever even find out if she actually won? There's all this guilt being thrown around about not going after Utena and finding her, and it feels misplaced. Utena simply vanished-- none of the duelists knew where she went, whether she left, was expelled ect. And to be honest, I'm not sure many of them would really care-- Miki might but I can't see Saionji, Nanami, or even Touga or Juri particulary going out of their way to find out what happened to her. When we see everyone in the last episode after Utena vanishes, they've already gone back to their lives and have started to forget her/have already forgot her. I think you just need to be a little more careful to make sure you're writing from the character's perspective and knowledge, than the omniscent knowledge the audience knows.

gorgeousshutin · Back to Top

Hi Honey Bear:
First off, thank you so much for giving an intelligent, thoughtful review of Seinen: it's difficult for Utena fics to get large numbers of reviews, especially meaningful ones, so yours means a lot to me emot-smile

the cast seem to know too much. Either Juri and Shiori refer to Anthy as a witch at some point, but I don't think in the series it was ever explained to the other duelists what Anthy actually was (I could be wrong. If I am, ignore me.)

Oh, this is not really a matter of right of wrong, but rather a difference in story interpretations between us. I saw from the series how all the council members who got a ride on Akio's car towards the ends of the world come back with a somewhat renewed perspective of Anthy (notably Saionji and Kozue), so I take that as they learned a lot more about both Akio and Anthy than they did previously, and use this interpretation in the fic.

The use of the term Victor for Utena in Seinen comes from the fact that everybody knows Utena is dueling for Anthy, so when they knew Anthy left, they knew Utena must had won.

There's all this guilt being thrown around about not going after Utena and finding her, and it feels misplaced. Utena simply vanished-- none of the duelists knew where she went, whether she left, was expelled ect. And to be honest, I'm not sure many of them would really care-- Miki might but I can't see Saionji, Nanami, or even Touga or Juri particulary going out of their way to find out what happened to her. When we see everyone in the last episode after Utena vanishes, they've already gone back to their lives and have started to forget her/have already forgot her.

I think you, being an intelligent reader, managed to pick up on a MAJOR part of Seinen Kakumei: apathy between people and the ruinous results it brings.

Now, if the student council members were all emotionally cold/uncaring towards Utena until the end of the series, then they really do have no reason to go after her as she vanished post Duel called Revolution: this would not constitute the damaging kind of apathy between almost-friends I want to depict.

But in the last chapters, Touga was shown proclaiming that Utena is important to him, that he wanted to keep her out of Akio's clutches, thus why he dueled her the third time; Saionji found out about Utena being girl in coffin, knows that Akio/Ends of the World was keeping them in coffins still, and wanted to help both Utena and Touga, thus why he was Touga's Bride in said duel. Juri and Miki had a game of squash with Utena right before Revolution, where they share the feelings in their hearts like good friends - the three were shown to be close enough that both even jokingly say they are attracted to her; Nanami even "forgets herself" and be a busybody trying to warn Utena away from Akio and Anthy; these people were, if not friends of Utena, at least friends that "could have been". For them all to be mature-seeming, wealthy and resourceful (enough to hire private detectives), and still did not go after Utena post Revolution . . . I took that as apathy that should induce guilt.

Edited to add some reply I gave another reviewer in another thread; hopefully this is further clarify my point:

I got this idea at seeing how in ep 39, we were shown Utena getting rushed by the swords (which I interpret as her moment of exit from ohtori) then followed by scene of Wakaba looking for her (clearly still remembers), all the while the swords are destroying the arena and such. The shadow-talk that followed went as if (in my interpretation) the shadows represented the general students of Ohtori 2 months post utena's disappearance: it went like the students remember who Utena was, that they once clamored her, but no longer cares about her now that she is gone from their surroundings; I took that as the students showing the apathy we so often seen in real life people (its so easy to lose touch with people), especially teens; thus how this story comes about.

Note that this guilt did not extend as much to people not so close to Utena, like Kozue, Shiori, and even Tsuwabuki.

Had they cared enough to go after Utena when they could, Anthy would've found Utena a lot sooner, and Seinen's Utena could be spared from the damage she suffered in the past decade (see Parts 3,4).

Once again, thanks for the review, and I hope you'd enjoy reading the coming parts etc-love

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (06-02-2012 01:49:09 PM)

gorgeousshutin · Back to Top

Hi again Ashnod:

I just realized that I forgot to reply to a question you had about Seinen Part 4:

7) Saionji defending Touga

The idea first came about from Ep 36, where Saionji supported Touga as bride in to duel/try to
1)save Utena
2) gain power to revolutionize the world
My story's Touga parallels Enokido, writer of Utena series, revelation on the character
http://iwanihana.info/mawaru/2011/10/04 … ido-youji/
Goes like this:
(So what did Touga gain in exchange at that point in time? It was the sense of alienation from being abused every night and seeing his innocent friend and sister during the day.
<skip>
In the TV series, Saionji always felt that he was one step behind Touga. Although the two are more or less equal in terms of ability, what Saionji lacked was that sense of alienation.)
In Seinen, my version of Saionji . . .
Spoiler text: (
… was under domestic violence from his violent father, whose business was reliant on the Kiryuu Family. As little boys, Saionji and Touga knew a little (but not the full extent) about the abuses the other suffer, and became kindred spirits/close friends. The meeting of coffin-Utena messed up their relationship, as Touga was desperate for power (the only thing that can change his situation in life), he used the opportunity to play it "one step ahead" over Saionji; Saionji came to be enraged by the notion that fellow victim Touga appeared to be one step before him, and he got left behind alone in his victim-hood; their friendship thus turned twisted.

At the time of Utena’s dueling at Ohtori, Touga had already grown to hate the word “friends”, since Mr. Kiryuu’s friends (business associates, really) made him their plaything too. In Eps 11, 12, Touga betted everything on the power of Dios’ Rose Bride that he hope would lead him to Revolution (thus escaping the rapes and keeping Nanami protected. When he still lost in Ep 12, all hope of leaving his personal hell felt lost to him. Afterwards Mr. Kiyruu ordered him to return home to film a beastality video, and Touga returned to Ohtori in the catatonic state he remained in throughout the Black Rose Saga.

After the Black Rose Saga, Akio showed Touga the Power of Revolution, thus reviving him by giving him renewed hope that he can escape the powerful Mr. Kiryuu through Revolution. By ep 35. Touga realized he might love Utena, and confided in Saionji about her being the girl in the coffin, along with more detail of his own rape. Saionji, seeing that he was on the same boat with Touga all along (instead of being left behind), decided to support Touga.

[Saionji: It may be that the Chairman saved her back then.
Saionji: But she's still in the coffin. No, not just her.
Saionji: We're in our coffins too. (we’re all still victims – orphaned; raped; beaten - too ) ]

ep 36

[Touga: If she wins the next duel,
Saionji: she gets the Power to Revolutionize the World.
Saionji: But if that happens...
Touga: ...she'll fall into the Ends of the World's hands.
Saionji: So, shall we?]

Touga then duelled with Saionji (who now wants both Utena to be saved by losing, and Touga to be saved by Revolution to stop the abuse) helping as bride; Utena won.

Post-Revolution, Touga’s abuses from Mr. Kiryuu and Co. increased (Akio prompted it), to the point that even Nanami found out; but Touga asked Nanami to pretend he did not know since Mr. Kiryuu is far too dangerous (Thus what Tsuwabiki mentioned in Seinen part 2: that Nanami was unhappy all the time throughout the rest of the school year). Around the end of the school year, Touga got badly hurt in a violent gang-rape where he

#26 | Back to Top06-02-2012 08:06:47 AM

Re: [Fanfic][2012]Seinen Kakumei Utena: yes, it's the actual fic itself

#27 | Back to Top06-02-2012 10:08:15 AM

Re: [Fanfic][2012]Seinen Kakumei Utena: yes, it's the actual fic itself

#28 | Back to Top06-02-2012 03:39:21 PM

Re: [Fanfic][2012]Seinen Kakumei Utena: yes, it's the actual fic itself