brian wrote:

Akio and Anthy were stuck in a Mobius strip unable to find the other side. Utena found the solution by metaphorically jumping off.

Wow.  Best one line summary I've ever read!

for you, brian!

Actually that's not bad at all. My interpretation is a little different, but not much. And the bit with the armbands is particularly interesting, I never noticed that.

Personally, I tend to a more psychological interpretation of events (sorry Ashnod, I know you're sick of hearing this). The whole issue of who has what power is far less interesting to me than the motivations of the characters. Of course, power is often a motivation, but I really don't think that's behind either Akio's or Anthy's actions. Not supernatural power anyway.

Human beings are complex. The question of whether or not Akio or Anthy is human I'll leave untouched. So if we look at the original group, Anthy & Dios, if we look at them as human and not pure archetypes, you can kind of see where Akio might have come from. My take is that he was always there as the dark nature of Dios. As long as Dios suppressed those urges, he could be the prince and protect the women of the world from whatever. But he was still a man, and in doing so he ignored his own needs and desires. Most of those won't just go away if you don't indulge them, and pretending they're not there as Dios probably did just makes them stronger. This could explain why Anthy hated the prince, though she loved Dios. Most of the people that he helped would probably have taken him for granted, not that that would be entirely their fault. If asked if he needed anything, Dios would undoubtedly have demurred, saying that he was fine, thanks. Anthy was probably the only one that saw that his need for support and companionship wasn't being met.

In the meantime, Dios would have been building up resentment against the very people he was helping. It would have seemed more and more that they were just using him, and that they didn't really care about him. It's even more likely that Anthy would become increasingly contemptuous of humanity as a whole for using her brother that way. And so she seduces him.

This could have happened in a variety of ways, and might not even have involved sex, but either way, SHE became the one protecting HIM. The strict interpretation of morality that Dios subscribed to (and Anthy too, most likely) would not permit him to show weakness that way. So, a prince no longer, he drowns himself in the Akio persona. Akio has no morals and doesn't care if he's weak. It's OK for Akio to use his sister as a plaything, and everyone else too. Akio can finally indulge all of those urges that Dios had to suppress and live for himself for a change. Best of all, it's all Anthy's fault. It was her idea in the first place, after all. And so as Akio, Dios is able to avoid any sense of guilt or responsibility.

Of course, nothing is that simple. Akio is a fiction, it's really still Dios. And while he may act differently, his old feelings remain. He still feels guilty about the things he does, and hides the guilt from himself by attempting to prove that he doesn't care about people, about Anthy specifically. It becomes necessary for him to hurt Anthy as much as possible, and to treat her with contempt, to keep his compassion for her under wraps and hold his guilt at bay. It only shows in that one scene in the show, when he angrily tells her not to blame him for what happened.

His last act as Dios was to show Utena Anthy's predicament. I do not think that this happened at the same time as Anthy's original seduction, though some have said so. I think it more likely that the Akio and Dios selves both exist in the same person, and either can express itself at any point. Except that Dios isn't big on the forgiveness, and neither is Anthy. At least at the start of the show. So Dios cannot forgive himself for being Akio, and he feels obligated to remain the villain. Playing the prince would be hypocritical. Of course, this does make his appearance before the child Utena problematic...perhaps the prince Dios is just what she sees with her pure non-judgmental eyes? Perhaps something about Utena inspires him to act nobly, even though he detests himself? Not sure.

Anyway, that's my take in a nutshell. I'm not even sure if I answered the original question.

  All this interpretative and analytical discussion is making me so happy .  How come we don't do it so much no more? :c

So difficult to choose how to approach Utena, from a psychological, philosophical point of view, in terms of symbolism or in terms of 'themes'.  Oh well, bs is what I'm best at, so I'll probably stick with it.

Stormcrow, keep talking man, I love it.

As for Jellineck's question, I kinda see the sex between them to boil down to, at it's core, to be a mockery of the love between a Prince and a Princess.  When you're young, this love is purely romantic and innocent, when you're older, sex comes into play.  Anthy sealed Dios away and helped create Akio, partly by forcing him to cross this border into adulthood, and in return, Akio has become dependant on her, (possibly, as I mentioned, becuase now she has the power to protect) both as a sheild against those nastier sides of adulthood such as responsibility and truth, and in a sexual manner.  The sex is not just a way to dominate Anthy, it's Akio's why of humilating and demoralizing her, reminding her of the sin she started, mocking her love of Dios, of that small and horrible part of her that he thinks wanted to be saved and loved by a Prince.  That power wasn't meant to be hers, that power to protect and to love him in the first place, because she was a girl, and his sister (in Akio's eyes).  So, Akio takes both connotations of the Prince's power from her to degrade and punish her.

Is this what you wanted, you filthy thing?  Well, now you have it.  No complaining, now, witch.  You reap what you sow, my little princess.

And he gets this beautiful illusion of control and domination from her, and the feeling that he controls that power once again, by taking advantage of it (think about when he grabs her when he's angry.  People often touch, hold, or grab physical things in order to establish ownership, as if the item were an extension of their body ***) in the process. He needs for her to feel guilty and responsible for what he has become, so she will stay.

And that's what Akio is all about, just a different kind of illusion.

(Said interpretation based on the idea that it was, in fact, Anthy who iniated sexual contact)

Maybe what truly separates Akio from Dios is intent.  Dios's cruelty and neglect of Anthy can be forgiven, to an extent, because he was young and innocent.  Akio is no longer innocent, yet he chooses to still neglect and even actively hurt Anthy, because he chooses to remain ignorant and irresponsible, to protect himself.  Dios became Akio because his Princliness, and probably just a good deal of his morality, could not properly survive the transition into becoming an adult.  The way in which things went down -Anthy's seduction, her becoming a witch, etc, etc, - left us with a Dios who slowly began to fear and resent the world around him, and his sister for exposing him to it all, and so he protected himself through Anthy, by refusing to take on the more difficult tasks of adulthood himself and piling them onto Anthy, such as responsibility for oneself and those you care about or owe it to.

Like Gio said, an adult in all the ways we mistake what it means to be an adult for, for his easy and well-learned sexuality, his physical body and (this an illusion/ born of manipulation/ lie) his power, but he is still a child inside.

Utena faces a similiar challenge herself, retaining her nobility, morality, idealism, whatever, even after sex.  Which she did.  And then, in the final episodes, facing all the nasty things the world has to offer and the truth behind childish dreams and her own hypocrisy, and becoming what it means to be a mature adult for real, not just in terms of virginity.  Now, when she tries to help Anthy, it is not out of innocence, it is because she chooses to, despite what she knows, as she takes responsibilty for herself and still tries to help someone outside herself in what can now only be truly called 'selfless'.

Akio= Fake adulthood, his challenge against Utena's path to becoming a proper adult was sex.
Anthy= A nasty, but true, side of adulthood, her challenge against Utena's transition was opening her eyes to reality and taking away more than sexual innocence.  (stab stab stab look what can happen when you try to help stab stab not everyone is a nice and innocent princesses stab stab)

For even more fun on this matter, check out the movie.  Touga was a prince, a true Prince (which is why he is dead, because the idea of a Prince will always be fundamentally flawed in itself) and when he was child, what obstacle did he face, that he had to retain his Princiless despite and throughout?  He was molested by his father (at an age similiar to Dios, 'adolescence', that transition between child and adult).  He managed to keep his nobility intact, and became a Prince. 

Well, we all know how well that ended.

Okay, that still made no sense.  I'll shut up now.

***Another example:  Akio posing while touching his car, Touga infuriating Saionji by leaning so casually against his Kendo-room door

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (07-01-2008 10:57:55 PM)

The movie actually confused me more. I got the gist of it and a few of the inner ideas about the rest of the Seitokai. I even understood Anthy a little better. Man, I feel so slow, but I thought it'd be best to ask those who could better interpret the symbolism. I, for the most part, understood the symbolism, but it's the deeper meaning that I can barely touch. Thank you for your intepretations. They really do help.

Hi, um hello, noob poster here.

Been checking out the forums for some time now, but now that this thread was made, i can finally get this thing that kept bothering me about Utena off my chest.

OITL, reading your assumption on this, I felt like I've finally found shining thi-, eh, explenation that I was looking for. Still, this made me even more very of something I've been feeling ever since I saw the series finale.

First of all(and I am hoping that I'll get cleared up on the matter because seeing you guys I don't know what to think) for some reason I can't consider Akio as childish. I just don't see him being so immature as everyone else here on the forums says. I don't remember seeing any occasion where he should have taken responsibility for something but didn't. Not regarding the duelling game of course, but nobody in a position like that would take the blame for what goes on in there. Besides, he's living the life! He made a world where everything goes as he wants! I consider that achieving the dream. I mean, you guys would like that too, wouldn't you?

While I'm at it, allow me to dissagree in a few things with Stormcrow. First, the minor issue, than the larger, since it relates to my dillemma in whole.

The minor one would be that I believe to have proof that not only are Anthy and Akio not human, they actually gained (whoa boy)eternity. And showing Anthy to Utena was by far not a deed by Dios.

My point is this. In the episode "Nemuro Memorial Hall" I think, Mikage remembers Tokiko being seduced by Akio. Now we would get to think ergo that the burning of the hall occured between the time that child Dios got Utena into the whole thing and the time Utena came to Ohtori. WRONG!

In episode "Qualifications of a Duellist", when Mikage get's his final mindfuck, his last line is:

How many decades has it been since I saw you last?

Decades! Decades people! It is my assumption that Anthy and Akio change age(and gender) as they see fit, seeing as, again, Tokiko get's seduced by the Akio we all know and love\hate, while six years prior to the events at Ohtori, a child Dios comforts Utena.

Just as a side note, as my bigger concer comes now:

To start, I don't think that Akio is an illusion. It's what Dios has become, curtesy of little sister, and he has sex with her to hurt her for what she has done. See, there they are in that shed, and Dios is critical, with the crowd outside, calling him to fight back whatever menace is terrorising them. I mean hey, that's what princes are for, amirite? Anthy is scared that Dios may die, so she seals away his powers inside him. I wouldn't go so far as to name the method sex(it's unlikely that she could have gotten Dios's you-know-what up and have intercourse with him in such a short period of time, especially being his sister and all), I'd say it is more likely Anthy's innate perk of "unstabability". So she goes out, gets lynched, and put in the coffin. Now I believe that Dios/Akio thinks Anthys act was unnecessary, as he would have been able to win in the end, but instead, he is now left with no power, no means of getting it back by himself, an astral projection sister-somethingoranother that now has all the power he had, and a recorded epic fail of saving his sister(I'd like to point out that IMO the reasons for that were beyond his control, and still IMO it was Anthy's fault). And about this, two things bug me:

1. Because of the above statement, I believe that the powre to revolutionise the world, whichever way you look at it, rightfully belongs to Akio. It was taken from his former self, and it should be given back to him. The method he uses to gain his power back is a whole other story, but in my eyes this fact remains.

2. We can take into consideration that after the shack incident the life of Akio depended on the Anthy-ghost. It's what gives them power to change sex, age and stuff. And the last scene is basically Anthy telling Akio that there is someone better suited to free her and get his power than him(someone who can actually free her)(who the hell takes "not that long" of a time to decide to leave after something like that coffin incident anyway?). She leaves Akio, and this begs the question if this girl is as selfish as I for some reason tend to believe? And if her powers are keeping Akio alive, if she goes away, will he... *gasp*

Help me out here guys! I'm feeling this series is throwing me a curveball and I don't even know if it's a bat that I'm holding!

(Maybe I left something out here, but it's 1:00 am dammit)

Jellineck wrote:

Dios: ...*reaches out and touches Anthy's boob*....Ah crap. *balls drop and POOF! he becomes Akio*

What's with me today? I find this incredibly amusing for some reason.

P.D.M. wrote:

First of all(and I am hoping that I'll get cleared up on the matter because seeing you guys I don't know what to think) for some reason I can't consider Akio as childish. I just don't see him being so immature as everyone else here on the forums says. I don't remember seeing any occasion where he should have taken responsibility for something but didn't. Not regarding the duelling game of course, but nobody in a position like that would take the blame for what goes on in there. Besides, he's living the life! He made a world where everything goes as he wants! I consider that achieving the dream. I mean, you guys would like that too, wouldn't you?

Well, Akio is immature in alot of ways.  No, he does not act like a spoiled child on the surface.   But why does he look like an adult to you? Because he drives fast and has lots of sex and drinks brandy?  SKU puts alot of effort into showing that no, these are not what make you an adult, but if you believe they are, then well.....you're probably early-series Touga.  And just as easy to bait.

Those swords that Anthy feels the pain of?  Yeah.  They were meant for Dios.  Those people were going to force Dios outta that shed, one way or another, which is why they brought weapons in the first place.  At the Rose Gate, Anthy again is assailed by swords to distract them from Akio.

Yes, Akio is living the life, one he has created to be completely in his control.  He has done this by cutting himself off from the outside world and by using his sister as a living sheild from pain.  He manipulates those around him cruelly with no actual true, concrete goal in mind.  He doesn't really care about Dios's power.  The entire dueling game was orchestrated to keep Anthy strung along, kill time, and amuse him.

In short, Akio doesn't take responsibility for himself or face the consequences of any of his actions, he lets his sister knowingly suffer them for him.  This is what makes him a child. 

But if you really want some awesome and much better written and more in-depth Akio analysis, then you havehavehave to check out Giovanna's Akio Shrine "The Long-Legged Older Man" over on Empty Movement.

P.D.M. wrote:

The minor one would be that I believe to have proof that not only are Anthy and Akio not human, they actually gained (whoa boy)eternity. And showing Anthy to Utena was by far not a deed by Dios.

My point is this. In the episode "Nemuro Memorial Hall" I think, Mikage remembers Tokiko being seduced by Akio. Now we would get to think ergo that the burning of the hall occured between the time that child Dios got Utena into the whole thing and the time Utena came to Ohtori. WRONG!

In episode "Qualifications of a Duellist", when Mikage get's his final mindfuck, his last line is:

How many decades has it been since I saw you last?

Decades! Decades people! It is my assumption that Anthy and Akio change age(and gender) as they see fit, seeing as, again, Tokiko get's seduced by the Akio we all know and love\hate, while six years prior to the events at Ohtori, a child Dios comforts Utena.

They probably are immortal, but their eternity is a shallow scheduled speil of what life should truly be.  They both remain hidden in their coffins, though those same harnesses have different names.  Akio and Anthy do not age, do not change.  But can you say that Anthy is in any way happy?  Constantly trying and failing to acheive the power of Dios once more, always lying, always being used?   Spinning roses, spiral staircases, and a car that goes nowhere very very fast are all used to represent, among other things, eternity.  One single moment, thought, time, deed, person, ideal or event that merely keeps repeating and looping back on itself over and over again.

Utena in her coffin needed to be shown something eternal.  What was it that Dios showed her that made her want to be a Prince and continue living?  The Eternal suffering of the Rose Bride.

The real Mamiya shows Nemuro roses his sister has dried in order to preserve, and they look beautiful.  But Mamiya still knows that they are dead, and will never wilt or fade or change in any manner, and he wonders if the roses want to be kept like that.

That kind of eternity doesn't sound very fun to me. :c

P.D.M. wrote:

To start, I don't think that Akio is an illusion. It's what Dios has become, curtesy of little sister, and he has sex with her to hurt her for what she has done. See, there they are in that shed, and Dios is critical, with the crowd outside, calling him to fight back whatever menace is terrorising them. I mean hey, that's what princes are for, amirite? Anthy is scared that Dios may die, so she seals away his powers inside him. I wouldn't go so far as to name the method sex(it's unlikely that she could have gotten Dios's you-know-what up and have intercourse with him in such a short period of time, especially being his sister and all), I'd say it is more likely Anthy's innate perk of "unstabability". So she goes out, gets lynched, and put in the coffin. Now I believe that Dios/Akio thinks Anthys act was unnecessary, as he would have been able to win in the end, but instead, he is now left with no power, no means of getting it back by himself, an astral projection sister-somethingoranother that now has all the power he had, and a recorded epic fail of saving his sister(I'd like to point out that IMO the reasons for that were beyond his control, and still IMO it was Anthy's fault). And about this, two things bug me:

1. Because of the above statement, I believe that the power to revolutionise the world, whichever way you look at it, rightfully belongs to Akio. It was taken from his former self, and it should be given back to him. The method he uses to gain his power back is a whole other story, but in my eyes this fact remains.

2. We can take into consideration that after the shack incident the life of Akio depended on the Anthy-ghost. It's what gives them power to change sex, age and stuff. And the last scene is basically Anthy telling Akio that there is someone better suited to free her and get his power than him(someone who can actually free her)(who the hell takes "not that long" of a time to decide to leave after something like that coffin incident anyway?). She leaves Akio, and this begs the question if this girl is as selfish as I for some reason tend to believe? And if her powers are keeping Akio alive, if she goes away, will he... *gasp*

Well, the physical properties of intercourse might not really matter.  Might not have even been intercourse.  Just innapropriate touching.  What matters is that she in some way 'tainted' him.

The thing is, it doesn't matter whose fault it is.  Who couldn't do what, who hurt whom first.  In these kinds of situations, laying blame gets you nowhere, especially since the two did used to love eachother.  The fact is is that right now Anthy is suffering, Akio is falling farther and farther down, and the world and everyone in it doesn't wanna face who they are or confront what they actually need.

And what would Akio have done with that power?  He can't go back to being Dios (I believe he even said as much himself) just like lost innocence can't be restored and an adult can't become a child again.  That's not how life works.  You have to keep moving forward, and not let yourself get hung up on the past and despairs and failures, both physically, emotionally, and day-to-day.

Akio would have just used that power for himself, or for nothing at all.  And even if he had become Dios again, what would have happened?  The world would have it's Eternally Flawed and Universal Scapegoat back again, I suppose.  No one would have to grow up or help eachother or save themselves or face their own problems, or the things that challenge them mentally and emotionally.  The perfect world built on a lie tattoed on a little boy's back, with everyone's eyes closed.  The absolute destiny? 

Apocalpyse.

And Anthy couldn't really care less about Akio at the end of the series.  Sure, she is partly to blame, but so is he.  He's still in his coffin, what he needs to do now is either stay inside it, and without Anthy, more than likely rot, or step out of it and grow up, and face his past misdeeds and take care of himself.  He survived an encounter with the swords, too, you know.  It's not his life that is dependant on Anthy, just his ego/psyche.

He's old enough now to watch over himself. 

And like I said (believe, interpret, whatever), he was never going to help Anthy in the first place.


And Anthy probably took a bit of time to wrangle up some dough and get real-life financial and educational and legality issues outta the way before she left Ohtori.  Moving away is not the kinda thing you do on an impulse, some planning must be done or you will more than likely end up on the streets.

Jellineck wrote:

I don't see Anthy as an adult. I see her as wiser and more mature than most of the other cast members, but in the end, she's still not strong enough to take the last step into adulthood. Her pessimism and fatalistic view is just a far darker shade of immaturity than Utena's. Utena believes that everything will always turn out for the best. Anthy believes everything will turn out for the worst. Neither are entirely true, for they are the dramatic ends of the spectrum. By opening herself up to allow healing and friendship, Anthy breaks out of her coffin and progresses to the point where she can leave Ohtori.

I agree completly.  God I word shit stupid.  There are alot of adult things about Anthy besides sex, but you are right, she too is trapped in her coffin.  It may not be named Innocence or Narcissism or Hate, but her cyncical coffin forged from Guilt and Lost Hope is a coffin noneletheless.

Like anyone seemingly stuck in a bad or abusive relationship, anyone on the outside can see that they are simply trapping themselves.



BONUS NOTE:  I mentioned earlier that Akio wearing Anthy's red color and gold bands could be symbolism of her seduction, and also mentioned that he uses sex to both dominate and mock her and remind her of her guilt.  Whenever the two are seen pre or post-coitus in the series, it is implied that during the act, Akio remains as clothed as possible, while Anthy is pretty much always nude.  This may not just be a way of expressing dominance and control, as nudity can be used to humiliate one and make them appear or feel vulnerable and not in control, but may also be Akio doing it on purpose to nonverbally drive home to Anthy the guilt and shame he wants her to feel for being the one who tainted him, by reminding her of their little roll in the hay back in the shed during every sexual encounter they have.

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (07-01-2008 11:00:06 PM)

I swear you guys are GENIUSES! My eyes have been opened so much from looking at the different yet very similar opinions and ideas. I will be posting a little analysis on the symbolism in episode 39, and this will help me quite a bit. Thank you all very much, and I look forward to even more opinions on the Anthy/Akio/Dios dynamic.

I'm pretty sure what happened to Akio and Dios after Anthy left is all speculation... correct me if I'm wrong

(Although technically Dios hasn't existed in like forever anyway >_<)

There's a lot of different scenarios that could have happened, it's never told what does happen.

I was depressed because I wanted to see Anthy and Utena reunite and have smex on a couch

But other than that... I was happy lol

Eh I know someone who throws tantrums and everything, and assumes the world revolves around her, but she still is an adult and she tries to act like an adult most of the rest of the time... but she's still extremely immature and childish.

I think that's Akio... immature... childish... but still an adult. Still seen as an adult by most, unless someone sees his actual childish side come out, then the words "sheesh what a baby" come to mind.

P.D.M. wrote:

So, let's take it in a way that Akio is immature. So then what does make you mature?(Don't answer that. It won't be anime that tells me this.) I checked out Gio's shrine way before I even registered, but I had to wait until now that I actually saw some points as to the why. Altough I'm still unconviced.

I actually think that apart from enjoying the ride, Akio does wish to help and free Anthy. I believe he just thinks along the lines of: If I am going to do this, I might as well enjoy myself in the process. I'm on the firm belief that not a single lie or fake emotion is said or played in the last two episodes.

I don't think he wants to free her -- I don't think he even sees it as a matter of freeing her at all. Gio talks about a scene to great effect in the body language thread, that being the scene where Akio and Anthy are riding in the car. Given the body language and what is happening -- this is the scene where Anthy is screaming in agony as they race down the road -- I believe it's one of the very rare times we are treated to Akio's true feelings on the situation. He's agitated and frustrated, and why? Because Anthy is in pain and he can't do a damn thing about it. I don't necessarily think it's because he wants to free her, although I don't deny he cares for her. I always viewed it as an uncomfortable truth he didn't want to face. Akio tended to gloss over the truth of Anthy's sacrifice for him, I think; she took on the hatred and pain of the world so he wouldn't be hurt by it, and therefore lost the responsibility of a prince (which is to save the world, basically). Akio doesn't like to be reminded of this. He plays at being a prince, but the truth of the matter is he can't save Anthy. No matter how much she wished it, he is not her prince. We usually look at it from Anthy's side, but Akio hurts from it too.

...crap, did I just go from disagreeing to agreeing with you? Ahahahahaha. This series really IS one huge mobius strip, isn't it? But yeah, what makes you mature? Taking responsibility for yourself, I would think. Akio doesn't, which is why Anthy says he remains in his coffin while she leaves the school.

P.D.M.
This is where I believe that I'm not really argueing with you guys, but more likely Ikuni and Saito. I don't think that if something good goes away, you should just accept that and go on. IMO you should try to bring that good thing back. It's not immature to want to change something that's gone haywire back to normal again.

Another thing is this "scapegoat" thing. Ikuhara and Saito are suggesting that if you ask for help from anyone you will never be able to advance in life yourself?

This is why I believe that a few of the right personal questions aked to these two could quiete possibly clear up any misteries or things people(like me) may not understand. I mean, I think that what matters here is more likely their persception, and not so much ours.

...oh, I don't want to sound like I'm being cruel or anything, but that first statement you make there? That is exactly what the characters are doing. And it is why they are portrayed as static. Take Mikage as an example; as Nemuro, he had a strangely idyllic existence with Mamiya and Tokiko, a false-family that he nevertheless believed was real. The entire Black Rose Arc was Mikage trying to reconstruct this out of a house of cards. Nanami's almost sexual overtones to Touga is a result of her trying to maintain her childhood relationship with a brother who has grown up faster than she has because of the disparity of their ages. Kozue's blatantly sexual overtones to her relationship with her twin is an attempt to isolate him so that they can exist together alone in a world like the sunny garden was before it was revealed she wasn't as special and unique as he is. And then Anthy and Akio...I believe the basis of their sexual relationship is an attempt at regaining the intimacy and connection of their childhood before the fall. So...er, yeah. [scratches head] What I am saying is this: the characters are trying to bring those good times back, and therefore can not move forward. They exist as static images, pictures upon a wall, formulated butterflies sprawled upon a pin.

As for the ideal of helping others, I also see that as the cornerstone of the series. The whole point of Utena and Anthy's ending is that Utena tried to help Anthy right up to the point where she COULDN'T. Because there comes a point in everyone's life where the training wheels come off and you have to do it yourself. Utena, being the noble prince figure, didn't realise this -- not out of arrogance, but out of a blind faith in the ideal of the prince. She didn't realise the most important thing is knowing when to let go. And isn't that the whole leap between adolescence and adulthood -- your parents finally realise that you are your own person, and you have to make your own way?

Utena succeeded in creating Anthy's revolution by showing her the path she had to take -- but it was Anthy who had to walk that path. The sad part is that Utena probably didn't realise this, hence why she says she failed Anthy. The happy part, however, is that Anthy's first task on leaving Ohtori is to go to her and explain how she helped her. Anthy advanced, but although she had to take the steps herself she couldn't have done it without Utena showing her the way first.

P.D.M. wrote:

Ps.
HUGE THANKS to OnionPrince for washing away my sense of lonelyness on this thread. Great to know I'm not the only one here on IRG that thinks what I do!

Oh, please don't feel your opinion is any less than anyone else's -- we are all very opinionated, admittedly, but it's because the show has been a very personal experience for most of us. Of course we can be precious about our opinions and perceptions -- but you'll find most of us like to have them challenged, because it causes us to go deeper. And Mikage's my favourite character, so naturally GOING DEEPER is my favourite pasttime.