This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top05-18-2016 03:51:08 PM

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Anthy Assailer
From: Barcelona [former epi]
Registered: 01-12-2016
Posts: 70

crazy idea but I think nobody exists

I think the rest of the cast represent different aspects/stages and obstacles of Utena and Anthy's relationship (bonus: each aspect represented by the color code of the character associated with chakras:

Wait, WHAT?

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Apocalypse_Arc/37/Series_ep37_150.jpg?m=1380853140

At the end of "37 - The One Who Will Revolutionize the World" and at the end of the movie, most of the characters dissapear. And I started thinking about this. I read the lyrics of the opening, where they say they met "in the sunlit garden", while this has always been associated with Miki and Kozue and not with Utena and Anthy per se, I was just rambling in my head. I remembered when Utena and Anthy visited the sunlit garden, and I also remembered how we never see the end of this conversation:

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Akio_Arc/26/Series_ep26_055.jpg?m=1380822001

Utena:  Hey, do you think this is "the" garden?
Anthy:  Hmm? Which garden?
Utena:  "The Sunlit Garden". You know, the title of that song Miki wrote.
Anthy:  I don't know. But that's just an image, right?
Utena:  Didn't Miki say that he and Kozue-chan played piano in a garden when they were little?
Anthy:  So he did.
Utena:  I wonder if it was this one? It's pretty desolate.
Anthy:  Well, it's a memory, so...
Utena:  That's probably true, but I imagined something more...
(Akio interrupts)
Akio:  More...what? What did she say?
Anthy:  Well now...I wondered that too.
Anthy:  I haven't a clue.

Pretty criptic. And that's when I started developing this thought:

Miki and Kozue's story revolves around different memories of their early childhood that fixated in their psyche forever. Utena's meeting with Anthy in her early childhood marked her personality forever, but she seems to have forgotten Anthy entirely from her memory. Miki's story represents the memories Utena and Anthy have of their meeting in their childhood, and how it affected their phsyche despite not remembering it.

Nanami's love towards her brother with an intense fixation is read as nearly incestous by some viewers, and while I personally don't fully agree with it, their story revolver around Nanami being manipulated by Touga, despite herself being quite controlling about him. Realizing she's being manipulated, understanding her feelings for her brother, and finally deciding to move forward seems to paralel Anthy's relationship with Akio.

Juri's story obviously revolves around passionate and secret love for a friend. It's irrelevant if it's reciprocate or not, because for that we should analyze not only Shiori's feelings for Juri, but also Anthy and Utena's feelings for each other and we can come up with different outcomes. But the theme is still present in all the show, it's present from the very opening, and Juri represents this other side of their relationship.

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Apocalypse_Arc/37/Series_ep37_221.jpg?m=1380853154

Touga and Saionji are a little bit harder to analyze. No wonder they are separated from the other three in episode 37, remaining in the shadows.

Touga represents the "self". Touga "is/was/should/wants to be" a prince, but it's not, or at least doesn't act like one. Instead, he's "perverted" by Akio's ways. This reminds me a little bit of Utena's own struggle to maintain her nobility, but not the characteristic itself but the identity that comes along with it. The differences between "wanting to be noble, wanting to be seen as noble, and wanting to be seen". Akio is the main challenge, where "princehood" is put into question, and makes Utena wonder what actually means to be a prince.

Saionji has two axis: one with his relationship with Anthy and another one with Touga. With Touga, it seems quite obvious his theme is friendship; loving a friend while being manipulated, loving a friend when they change, loving a friend when they might be gone already. The other axis is with Anthy, what it means to posses someone, to truly care about someone, to be able to read people's true intentions and emotions. He also represent what it is to be a foolish jerk, and to be honest this also applies to Utena in oh so many levels, including with Wakaba.

I checked episode "13 - Plotting a Locus", trying to match the titles with these ideas, and felt pretty dumb.

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Student_Council_Arc/13/Series_ep13_037.jpg?m=1380829084

Sajionji "Friendship and Choice", Miki "Reason /alternative trans: cause", Juri "Love", Nanami "Adoration, /alt trans: worship", Touga "Conviction and Self"


Mikage and Akio, the main antagonists, might represent Utena and Anthy's bagage in different ways. Mikage, in my own head canon, is the shadow of Utena's dead parents (see here) while Akio is well, we know the story. Once they overcome the obstacles, they simply dissapear, as Mikage did, as everyone else did in the last episodes.


So what do you guys think? Food for thought?

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Movie/Movie_Screenshots/Locust_Cars_Finale/Movie_Screen_1101.jpg?m=1380886140

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#2 | Back to Top05-23-2016 01:22:09 AM

DefineMask
Saionji Slapper
Registered: 05-14-2016
Posts: 26

Re: crazy idea but I think nobody exists

I actually think the opposite. I feel Utena, Anthy, and Akio are the ones who do not physically exist. To simply put, Utena is the light that the student council members refused to face at first, but then slowly began accepting it to face their insecurities. Akio was the darkness that showed them the corrupted "wrong" ways of growing up, and Anthy was the distraction that made sure that the students plummet back into their darker feelings and get motivated by illusions or negative influences again. And Mikage's arc represented the consequences as to what mistakes they've made. His arc made them see a bit of what they may have done, and the third final arc is when they had their final duels and surrendered to reality. Meaning their battles with Utena were just a means of battling themselves. When Utena destroys Akio's arena, it means that the students had moved on from their issues and have learned to accept reality and coming of age for what they are. They learned to communicate with whomever they were having issues with. In short, "Revolution" is when one truly learns to understanding what growing up is really about.

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#3 | Back to Top05-23-2016 07:38:39 PM

pesimistamente
Anthy Assailer
From: Barcelona [former epi]
Registered: 01-12-2016
Posts: 70

Re: crazy idea but I think nobody exists

DefineMask wrote:

I actually think the opposite. I feel Utena, Anthy, and Akio are the ones who do not physically exist. To simply put, Utena is the light that the student council members refused to face at first, but then slowly began accepting it to face their insecurities. Akio was the darkness that showed them the corrupted "wrong" ways of growing up, and Anthy was the distraction that made sure that the students plummet back into their darker feelings and get motivated by illusions or negative influences again. And Mikage's arc represented the consequences as to what mistakes they've made. His arc made them see a bit of what they may have done, and the third final arc is when they had their final duels and surrendered to reality. Meaning their battles with Utena were just a means of battling themselves. When Utena destroys Akio's arena, it means that the students had moved on from their issues and have learned to accept reality and coming of age for what they are. They learned to communicate with whomever they were having issues with. In short, "Revolution" is when one truly learns to understanding what growing up is really about.

I love this so much as well emot-smile

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#4 | Back to Top05-28-2016 09:52:26 PM

Kita-Ysabell
Covert Diarist
Registered: 11-18-2012
Posts: 829
Website

Re: crazy idea but I think nobody exists

Well, of course nobody exists.  They're characters in a story, what did you expect? emot-keke

Which is to say, the way I see this topic, it's an attempt to explain a non-diegetic aspect of the story (thematic relationships) through diegetic means. (the literal, physical existence, or lack thereof, of people in the show's universe)  And, given that my predilection is to prioritize analyzing media through their connection to and impact on reality, i.e. creators and audience, over attempting to give everything an in-universe explanation, it isn't the sort of thing I'm likely to pursue.  An interesting experiment, but from my perspective, it misses the point.

So, why the parallels between Utena and Anthy's part in the story and the parts of the other duelists?  Because that helps illustrate the important elements of the former.  And why does everyone disappear in episode 37?  Because those themes are adequately developed, and now it's time for them to pay off with our main protagonists.  Also, you know, they kind of don't?  The other duelists keep showing up, they even get a montage of what happens to them after Utena disappears.

It's different in the movie, but I think it's perfectly valid to say that literally nothing in the movie exists in-universe, it is all 100% symbolic.  Nobody has any ontological inertia there, because they don't have any ontology to begin with.  Nothing in the movie indicates that as a work it has any interest in developing a reality to exist within.

To me, that's one of the really fascinating things about the show.  The Ohtori of the show feels real, grounded.  You can map it out.  Time passes.  Things happen that aren't directly related to the plot.  Crowds exist, and react to situations in realistic ways.  Characters that appear only briefly are given traits that can be (and in the Black Rose arc, often are) extrapolated out into complex personalities.

Yet viewed from the inside, any number of events in the show make no sense.  If the dueling arena is really the Chairman's tower, how come none of the characters notice, even though the forest and the tower are on opposite ends of the campus?  Who or what are the shadow girls, and why do they keep performing skits when nobody's there?  Why does the student council have such strange meetings?  Why does Chu Chu have an earring and tie like that look like Akio's?  Where did the swords of hate come from?  Where do any of the swords come from?  And what the hell is going on with Mikage?!

It's possible to wave these things away as the doings of a wizard, or witch, or magical planetarium projector, but doing so denies the thematic weight behind them.  Rather, the series takes place in a world that is real until it isn't, until the direct influence of themes and symbolism comes and intervenes.  Instead of taking the speculative fiction route of defining the fantastic rules of a world around thematic elements and letting them play out, the series is a fantastic allegory that plays out in, over, and around a perfectly ordinary world.


"Et in Arcadio ego..."

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