I'd love to say something interesting and insightful but all I can really say is I'm impressed, both that you can get all of that out of a single, abbreviated image of a given character and also that the artists can illustrate an entire character in that single image - especially a complicated one like Anthy.

Thank you for the comments guys. I really need to put this down for a day and do some work on the actual site. But in the next update after this I'll probably pick some of these and edit them for properness and put them on the site, since I'm writing a god damn epic here.

brian wrote:

But Kanae is wearing the same expression she always wears, simultaneously aristocratic, glamorous, and puppy-dog pleading for affection.

You're absolutely right; that air is part of her baseline body language so I didn't mention it there, but she does carry herself that way. The downside is that's the kind of persona that's easily a lot of pretty shell and nothing underneath, and that's probably the case with Kanae. She lacks the psychological depth the rest of the cast earned with the hurt in their lives.

Today, the rest of the stylized art! Now it's time for the Seitokai (MINUS SAIONJI ). This batch is slightly different from the other set in that these poses seem to me to be a more general attempt to capture the characters' sexual personalities, not necessarily some narrower facet of their lives and situations. There isn't really a concern for the viewer, or specific thoughts involved, these are more like...well a quick glance and a kneejerk impression of each of them and their sexuality.


Utena and Anthy are repeats from the first batch, and not saying a whole lot that's new here, so I'm not going to go into great length.

It is of note that Utena's doing the cover breasts and lift arm pose Kanae and Anthy used in the other set, but obviously we're getting a different feel from it here. It's again the contrast of sexuality realized and awkwardness about it; her hand is buried in her hair, her head tipped slightly back, but her other hand is covering her breast, curled tightly around it. The look on her face is lustful, eyelids lowered, eyebrows straight. Notice the white in her eyes is smaller than Anthy's. Her pupils are dilated but her eyes aren't glassy and wet yet. She looks in the first stages of arousal, but again, like she feels a little awkward about how naturally feminine that experience makes her. This is something of an unanswered question at the end of the series, a conflict that doesn't really get resolved for her. She's a prince and a tomboy and all, but I do think there is a bit of 'woman' in her, and that she needs to contend with that. We wouldn't be looking at poses like this from her if she immediately didn't like them and tossed them aside.

As for Anthy, this is almost entirely a reprise of the other shot. Deliberate sexual weakness and timidness. Both hands are lifted to the shirt she's apparently pulling at to expose herself. Instead of one, which would be more seductive, she needs both, as if doing something very difficult for her. Her eyes are glassy, vulnerable, and she looks away, and yet she cranes her neck and she does so, exposing a long stretch of it, pretending to be unaware she's exposing such an erotic part of her body. Though her head lowers, it doesn't come down to cover any part of her neck or shoulders. She's making sure the bared skin is clearly visible, so that even as we see a weak and vulnerable woman, we're also seeing something intriguing and arousing. Tricksy, that one. I'm still pissed there are no Akio shots, the comparison would have been delicious.

The Seitokai can be split into two groups based on these images: comfort with sex and a lack thereof.


Juri and Miki both look uncomfortable with the comparatively small amounts of skin they're exposing. They're both uncomfortable with their sexuality.

Juri's pose? She's on her hands and knees, just like Shiori was. Looks a little different this time, though. Juri's back is arched quite hard, pushing her ass out. It's lowered though, so she's not technically presenting, rather this is part of the means she's using to push her chest forward, tightly pressing her breasts between her arms. The fact that she's doing this, though, clearly troubles her. She looks away, and though her lips are parted and her eyelids are lowered, signs of arousal, her eyebrows are tensely straight and pointed down. She exposes her neck a little, but it doesn't count for much given she's covered there by hair and clothes. Her body sends a strongly, strongly sexual message, but she looks a bit troubled by it. It's a less innocent discomfort than Utena; she's knows what the problem is and agonizes over it, but she can't help wanting anyway. She presses her breasts together tightly, for the indirect stimulation, to feel a pleasure she can pretend she didn't pursue. Our little malcontent would never allow herself something more direct than that, when it's her lot in life to suffer and feel betrayed by herself.

Miki's pose is...well rather obvious. His discomfort with sexuality is fueled mostly by his own innocence. He lifts the top, baring his stomach, but he looks incredibly embarrassed to be doing this. His eyebrows come up, he's looking up, kinda tipping his head back but in a gesture that usually leads to turning away and saying something like 'Awww come on, do I hafta ' In the series, Miki is sexually on pause. He shrinks back from advances from most who attempt him, and it takes the Akio Arc duel to expose anything even suggestive of open sexual interest on his part. Miki's relationship with Kozue has left a scar he covers up by delaying his own sexual development to the point of being well behind just about everyone around him, but this wouldn't be such a bad strategy if he wouldn't treat the blanket he's thrown over himself as permanent. Here we see again the suggestion of an issue he hasn't approached yet but must. 'Do I hafta? ' Yes dear, eventually you do.


But enough with that stupid discomfort with sex bullshit!

Touga shows the most skin and minds it the least. But Touga knows you like what you see. You want to see more of it, don't you? In fact, you'd rather like to touch it. Taste it. You can't resist him. That's why he's got that knowing smile on his face. He doesn't even have to look at you, he can look off into the distance, eyes lowered and relaxed, thinking to himself about how your cock is straining your pants or your thighs are sticky thinking about how much you totally, TOTALLY want to fuck Touga Kiryuu. To say this is a sexually confident man is...well yeah. He appears halfway through shrugging off his jacket, and his hand is tightly gripping his own hair, pulling it out of the way, exposing his face. This last bit is an odd gesture from Touga, whose fingers are usually so relaxed, even effeminately casual. Why the sudden tightness in his fingers? Well lest we forget who we're dealing with...everything of his that you can touch is an erotic zone, so to touch his own hair is auto-contact behavior. He's not hungrily gripping his hair. He's reminding you of how you'd like to hungrily grip his hair. Not a whole lot of issues here with his sexuality or exposure of his body. Folks, that's the start of his pubic hair down there. I bet someone convinced the censors it was shadows though.

Nanami is...well an interesting case. Her face is coy, flirtatious. Though her pose covers her breasts, there are some major flirting behaviors to account for here. She has her thumbnail between her lips. Mouth contact and rather suggestive mouth contact at that, no one's seeing her thumb there. That arm covers most of her chest, but naturally, not 'on purpose'. 'Oh I'm sorry, is this covering something you wanted to see?' Her other hand is resting on her chest, not to conceal but to draw attention to it. This is the woman fidgeting with her necklace. She's leaned back, and turning toward us (only time it really counts with this batch) with relaxed eyes, and a tiny smile. Anthy's deliberate weakness. This is deliberate ignorance, except we're meant to know it's an act. Innocently naughty, and ruthlessly flirtatious. Yet...this is Nanami? We tend to focus on her relationship with Touga to define her sexuality, but perhaps we need to define her understanding of love this way, and look elsewhere for her sexuality. Recall she has the three insane adoring admirers that fall all over her and she regards them as slaves. She's strangely innocent about love, and, well...normal functions of female reproduction, but there's really nothing in the series to suggest she's ignorant about sex and sex appeal. Why would she be? She's a woman of class and a fashionista, and they end up being rather familiar with such things as part of their language. It's only implied by that she's clearly comfortable with men falling for her (and using them), but is it terribly hard to imagine this flirty young woman is our Nanami? Was sex ever really the problem with her? We've mentioned before Kanae's being old money and the Kiryuu siblings representing the nouveau riche...isn't this the look you'd expect a woman in that position to have? She looks proud, confident. You can almost see the diamond earrings under her hair. If this isn't quite Nanami in the series, it's definitely Nanami a few years down the road. After all, she is Touga's sister.

Edit: AHAHAHAHA OH HOLY CHRIST. Totally found what I'm posting tomorrow.

Last edited by Giovanna (01-23-2007 03:51:30 PM)

angelicreation wrote:

Giovanna wrote:

Today, the rest of the stylized art! Now it's time for the Seitokai (MINUS SAIONJI ).

I don;t know where they got it, but I found the pic of Saionji from this series of art.  Don;t know why it's not with the rest.  in fqact, I thought I sent you the link to the wallpaper someone created using it.  It is the only place I've seen it.  Look here.

Aw, darn it, and I was going to suggest we have a Sketch The Missing Saionji contest!

Interesting pic!  I'll wait to see what Gio thinks, though.

That Saionji looks like fanart to me.

It's from a Chiho Saito's drawing: http://www.ohtori.nu/gallery/saitoluxury/Luxury27.jpg

Ohhh, I never noticed that!
But... I've heard that people usually start mimicking other people's bodylanguage during a conversation with them only if they feel comfortable around them or if they like that person. If they have something against the person they're with, then their bodylanguage becomes defensive and they don't mimic the other. I never knew you could subconsciously do that while you're not actually with the person who you're mimicking.

Anyways, this thread =
And more please.

Giovanna wrote:

Utena mimicking Akio analysis

I just KNEW you'd do that comparison! Happy, happy. I just shake my head every time Utena parrots Akio. As I've watched SKU over and over this past year, when I catch parallel stuff like that, it just makes me so happy. And she's just so wrong about Wakaba, you have to feel sorry for her.

Giovanna wrote:

By the way I love that scene. 'YOU CAN'T KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE THINKING' :switch to blankly smiling Anthy:

And is that switch because Akio *thinks* he knows what Anthy is thinking but the series wants to hint that he doesn't? Because doesn't he think he knows what people are thinking? I actually agree with what he says but I'm not a megalomaniac.

As for what Anthy is thinking, are there hints? Because next in the Tatsuya/Utena scene, while Tatsuya says the line "She's so happy when she's with you. I thought if I could be with you then...", the "camera" stays on Anthy sitting demurely next to Utena. I always felt like, although his line is about Wakaba being happy with Utena, the series is making the same statement about Anthy.

Lightice wrote:

Except in the photoshoot sessions and while they lay on that bed near the Duelling Arena...

Oh I will be going through those again with much attention to detail (), but as I recall it Touga doesn't mimic Akio's body language so much as match him for tone. Right off the bat I can tell you Touga was far more flirtatious with his poses than Akio. Who was just a huge whore about it.

iruka wrote:

This is all frightfully fascinating, but...

I can't help but wonder... could the animators really have tried so hard to study human body language just to draw the scenes this way? I don't know, sometimes it seems like a bit of a stretch.

Yes, my cousin is an artist. She has taken many classes in this stuff. Even high school art classes cover it to a limited extent. Even if you aren't trained in body language, as a viewer, you are subconciously picking up on it. Animators especially would study body language to bring these two dimensional characters to life and make them more human. If you wonder, just watch a Disney movie with the sound off. You know exactly what's going on and it's not just the expressions on the character's faces, it's their whole body telling the story.

Another point: It takes so long to draw frame by frame, so, if you're going to bother drawing it, it should mean something. The animators should use every means possible to further the story. That, to me, is how I judge good anime.

iruka wrote:

I can't help but wonder... could the animators really have tried so hard to study human body language just to draw the scenes this way? I don't know, sometimes it seems like a bit of a stretch.

That's what the animators' job is - they must convey just the right body language. While you rarely see such in-depth analysis of it, Utena isn't the only anime with incredibly realistic body language. This is the kind of stuff that the art schools routinely teach to their students.

Giovanna wrote:

She makes the same mistake here. In Akio's informed position, what does he say? You can't know what another person feels. In her informed position, what does she say? I KNOW HOW WAKABA FEELS, HERE LEMME SHARE. Oops.

I love that scene so much.

And yet I never consciously connected their poses.

iruka wrote:

This is all frightfully fascinating, but...

I can't help but wonder... could the animators really have tried so hard to study human body language just to draw the scenes this way? I don't know, sometimes it seems like a bit of a stretch.

Having been through many art classes and books, I can tell you that yes, it is studied to an extent, but it depends on how you lay your classes out that determines how much of it you do study. Honestly, though, after a while it becomes irrelevant, especially in a discipline like animation -you actually have profiles, you know your characters intimately, (one hopes, esp with a show like Utena), you know what they would and would not do as real people. Touga would never sit indian-style on the floor with Akio during one of their sessions. He just wouldn't, it's not who he is. IMHO, though, studying body language really only helps you out when you're working on a piece without reference or model, and you've no idea anything about the people you're drawing. Which...you really should, even if you're creating them from scratch. Oo

Hey, Gio. We all know and mourn that Akio and Saionji don't have colorblocked ones to go with the rest of the Seitokai....but with your command of the body language thing...how would you have them posed, if you'd been the artist? Stick figures are appreciated.

Last edited by morosemocha (01-24-2007 04:05:10 PM)

morosemocha wrote:

Hey, Gio. We all know and mourn that Akio and Saionji don't have colorblocked ones to go with the rest of the Seitokai....but with your command of the body language thing...how would you have them posed, if you'd been the artist? Stick figures are appreciated.

Ever seen what happens when a critic tries directing?

I will have to contemplate this. And make some attempt to be objective about trying to imagine deliberately sexualized pictures of the two characters I want to fuck the most. (What can I say, Wakaba had good taste.) I kinda already failed on that one. In my defense, if Touga's showing pubes, there's no way under God for you to get away from Akio's cock being right in the picture. Seriously, that's his sexuality. He's a walking, talking, manipulating cock. I would also expect some major auto-contact behavior, of a much less subtle flavor than Touga's. In a more realistic art style, I would expect a sheen of sweat. Also...predatory. Definitely predatory. Remember what I said about being the male contrast to Anthy? Yeah. Parted lips, a lifted head, no attempt whatsoever to cover even an inch of the torso. Actually he'd probably be touching his cock, although not with more than a couple fingers. I keep thinking of this shot, actually, I guess because even if you don't see it, the suggestion would be that he's sitting, probably on his couch. He'd be one of the ones looking directly at the viewer.

As for Saionji...he'll look angry. He'd also be touching himself, but it won't be the suggestion of someone else doing it, his ego isn't big enough for that. Fingers digging into flesh, but it wouldn't be clear whether it's out of frustrated desire or self-hatred. Dilated eyes, heavy lids, a sneer on his lips. If everything about Akio's suggests you're supposed to jump on his cock ASAP, Saionji's would be more like 'ugh why do i do this to myself '. Akio will perceive a viewer, where Saionji's would suggest he's alone, even if he's not perceiving he is. Not looking away from us but looking away from his own body, and I suspect his hair would spectacularly fail to hide him. I keep thinking if his head's lifted at all (which it probably is just to look away from himself), that his adam's apple would be prominent, to suggest a knot in his throat from frustration and anger and maybe, maybe even tears. There would be the suggestion of open indulgence, an allowance of pleasure (something that, for example, Juri isn't allowing herself), but with it the shame that comes with that lack of self-control. There'd be no restraint, he'd be touching himself openly and clearly enjoying it, you'd just see how much he hated that he did so.

I can attempt stick figures but it's easier for me to account for what would be in the image than how exactly to compose it. Also that was either really accurate or really masturbatory of me. Can't tell right now.