Things I don’t like about Utena:

Not much, honestly. XD

I’ve no complaints when it comes to characterization (at least that I can think of off the top of my head), and the things that non-fans complain about in the series are things that I actually like a lot, so there’s that.

But when it comes to animation, the show could definitely afford to have been spruced up a little. On one hand, some of the ways they cut corners added to the atmosphere and style -- rather than seeming like they were thrown in for the sake of reducing cost.

OTOH, the character models were really off in some episodes. I can forgive it when it comes to the earlier episodes in the first arc, but as the designs improved and more detail was put into the art, it became jarring to see reallypretty!character art followed up with character art that, um, wasn’t.

The animation itself could have also used a larger budget. I think someone else mentioned that, though.

Otherwise, not much comes to mind for now. Will follow up later if anything does, though.

Mishi wrote:

Not something I actually hate, but Utena's reaction to Touga's ring always bugged me. When she challenges Saionji, doesn't he tell her that all of the Student Council are involved in the duels, and that they all have rose seals like hers? She never once considers that Saionji might be her Prince. If I were in Utena's place when she first meets Touga, I'd be like "oh, yeah, he's on the student council too, so it's only natural he has the same ring." I certainly wouldn't have expected her to act all shocked the way she did. "Gasp! Could he be my Prince?" At that point, Touga hadn't really said anything she could misinterpret that way. Considering how adverse she was to his advances just a few minutes beforehand, that always seemed out of character to me, and pretty much ruined any appreciation I might have for Touga-seducing-Utena plot. It drove me insane how, long before Touga even knew about Utena's Prince fixation, and despite her apparent dislike of him, Utena could still entertain the possibility of Touga being her Prince.

I just realized the hole 'all the student council have a rose seal' might be interpreted as foreshadowing Akio's whorish ways.

Nothing seemed odd about that scene until I watched the third in the Rose Bitch series and wondered how the hell Utena can get two completely different looking characters confused. O.o

Mishi wrote:

Coco Melancholy wrote:

Nothing seemed odd about that scene until I watched the third in the Rose Bitch series and wondered how the hell Utena can get two completely different looking characters confused. O.o

Oh, I was willing to suspend my disbelief on that point. She was a kid when she met the Prince. It's possible that she didn't remember what he looked like.

I was and am to a point to but details submitted in Utena's memory clearly show wavy short silvery hair whilst Touga's is a far cry from that. Saying that none of this ever bothered me, I think Utena's search for her prince encompassing her life the way it does will naturally make her draw all sorts of crazy conclusions.

And Superman is suddenly a different person with he's glasses on.

People DO change their hairstyle. (not so much in anime, but whatever) Obviously the Prince needed to go incognito, so he grew his hair long, dyed it red, and straightened it. And did a Micheal Jackson. (I'm going to burn in Hell for that one.)

In a way, though, throughout the series, Utena was pretty conservative in the number of guys she considered might be her prince. There was just Touga and Akio.

To me, there are just too many inconsistencies in that scene. Touga flirts with Utena and she literally pushes his hand away. She is NOT interested in him. But then, she notices his ring, and it's like she's a completely different person. It might have worked if it had happened in the first episode, before she knew about the duels. She could have been portrayed as latching onto the first guy she sees with a rose seal, but that's not how it happened.

Or maybe what happened was: "Hey, Saionji has a rose seal! Could he be my Prince? Nah, my Prince would never slap a girl. So he can't be my Prince." Then: "Hey! Touga has a rose seal too! He's kind of a macho playboy, but he doesn't slap girls! He MUST be my Prince!"

My CORE complaint is that Utena seems like the type to trust her heart, and her first impression of Touga was NOT a good one. I have a hard time believing that on such flimsy evidence she could consider a guy she disliked could be her Prince.

Last edited by Mishi (04-18-2008 09:20:39 AM)

Mishi wrote:

My CORE complaint is that Utena seems like the type to trust her heart, and her first impression of Touga was NOT a good one. I have a hard time believing that on such flimsy evidence she could consider a guy she disliked could be her Prince.

This was my big complaint about it too. Fine, rule out Saionji since no, prince probably wouldn't beat women (haha boy was she wrong, prince would beat them and make them like it), but Touga wasn't any shining example of merit either and she knew that.

Really the closest thing to a prince would be...Miki. Why does she never suspect him?

...or did I just betray myself in naming the weakling tool the most princelike male character?

Adrasteia wrote:

My friends and I always laughed at the fact that Utena mistook the caucasian, redhaired Touga for her prince.

Japanese redhead.
But I got the impression that she really doesn't remember how he looked, just how he smelled (roses, obviously). But she wasn't very practical thinker, when it came to the Prince, anyway.

And Touga's what, 16?

17. Again, . But if you look at how the actual event looked like, Dios did not actually seem much older than Touga and Saionji, at first. It may be my imagination, but he seemed to age a bit during the scene, itself. In any case, it's not like there's any actual age-limit for being a Prince.

Or maybe what happened was: "Hey, Saionji has a rose seal! Could he be my Prince? Nah, my Prince would never slap a girl. So he can't be my Prince."

Hmm...Did Utena actually notice Saionji's Rose Seal...It's been awhile since I saw the first episode, so I can't remember...

In Saionji's case, he notices her ring first.

As for Utena's first impression of Touga... We don't really know, do we? She knew of him before the series starts, and the first time the viewer sees Utena get a glimpse of Touga, he's stopping Saionji from slapping Anthy. Touga's not a prince, but as far as anime conventions go he acts as the prince-type. Even without knowing about Utena's prince, he wants to favourably impress her; for him that results in acting in a chivalrous, prince-like manner.

Further, the images of Dios we see in the fairy tale recap don't come from Utena's memory. When the actual events are finally shown, Utena herself doesn't (re)gain this information, she only has a sense of it like a forgotten dream. Incidentally, Touga did show up the night Utena met her prince. And he acted in his 'princely' chivalrous/chauvinist manner back then as well. We don't get any idea of what Utena thought of him, she had other things on her mind, but there's the slim possibility she remembers that encounter as part of the scenario where she met her prince.

Last edited by Ragnarok (04-18-2008 02:50:03 PM)

Adrasteia wrote:

I think, for me, the height difference was very noticable when I first saw Saionji and Touga as children. They were closer in size to Utena than Dios, although Dios has a very youthful face.

We don't really see proper comparison, since all the time Touga and Saionji were present, Utena was crouching in the coffin, and neither is present at the same time as Dios. I had the impression that Dios/Akio (subject of another discussion) deliberately appeared as relatively close to Utena's age, since she really couldn't handle dealing with an adult, at the time.

I think she transferred in, like in the manga.

...though, yeah, she is already friends with Wakaba, isn't she? Maybe Wakaba just attached herself to Utena immediately.

But Utena is also part of a sports team at the beginning of the series? Haha, plotholes are great. Maybe we're just missing something that explains all of this.

I completely forgot about that. Thanks for clearing things up. I guess the anime beginning does follow the course of the manga. Wakaba does seem like the type who wouldn't hesitate to immediately befriend Utena.

Yeah. Utena's denser than a neutron star.

(That was for you, Gio. )