This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
Well, I just finished Rin's path (doesn't seem like I'm missing any scenes). I pretty much agree with what has been said in this thread. I can't help but feel like Hisao and Rin weren't that compatible together.
But now that I know about the Library, I realize I'm lacking some scenes for Hanako, and I didn't have a bunch of savestates for her. Not sure if I want to try and get them now, or play through Shizune's path already.
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I came back to Katawa Shoujo yesterday and marathoned Emi's path. It was kind of refreshing! Of the four I've played so far, Emi's was the most [straightforward "ordinary boy-girl high school romance." Hisao grappled with his feelings for just the right length of time, teenage awkwardness was present without being unbearable, and Emi's issues were serious and frustrating without being disqualifying. Some of the writing was really beautiful, particularly as Hisao was trying to negotiate the line between "treating Emi as someone who needs his help" and "wanting to help Emi even though he knows she can help herself." I liked how Iwanako's letter was used differently in Emi's arc than in the others, and I also loved interacting with Rin without having to sustain a relationship with her. ]
I wasn't expecting to like Emi's path so much, but there's something to be said for setting the bar low and then clearing it with room to spare, which I think is what this one does. The only path left for me is Lilly's, so it's time to boot it up again!
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Indeed, when I first played I thought Emi seemed a bit annoying, but she's a pretty fun character even if she seems the most "normal".
I got started on Shizune, but I haven't been playing much lately. I might have an easier time getting into it after a break.
And, to be honest, Misha is a little grating at times.
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That was a wonderful scene. When Rin crashed the party, I panicked for about half a second, and then I was like "oh, wait, it's just Rin." If someone is going to [walk in on a couple's sexual rendezvous], Rin is something like the best person for the job in the world. Because she probably won't notice, and if she does notice she probably won't attach any significance to it, and if she does attach significance to it she won't care. I laughed for a long time.
I'm in Lilly's Act Two, and we've learned that Yamaku doesn't handle people with psychological disabilities, only physical ones. This unfortunately rules out my fantheory that Rin is actually at Yamaku because of mental illness, and the arms thing is just a coincidence. [Though I'm tempted to treat the "no mental illnesses" thing as a general rule that has exceptions, since Hanako's scars are not physically disabling; her disability is clearly psychological.]
Last edited by satyreyes (07-09-2012 06:10:35 PM)
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I'd guess that Yamaku accepts people with mental illness in the same way it accepts people without disabilities. It's designed for those with special physical circumstances, but it's also a very welcoming place. I don't remember for certain if this is stated in the game, but I'm under the impression that Hanako is there because she felt she'd be more comfortable rather than through any special benefits for her condition.
I'm not sure that Rin would have been able to move into the atelier if she was specifically at Yamaku for therapy, though.
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I see your point, but there's also the implication in the game that the staff see art as part of Rin's therapy, and we know that Yamaku's treatment philosophy focuses on the whole individual. If we assume that the staff knows basic facts about Rin (like that she can't be relied on to remember to eat and sleep), then they would be crazy not to be concerned about her psychology -- regardless of whether she was admitted because of her arms, her brain, or both. From this perspective, letting her move into the atelier is desperately counterintuitive unless it's supposed to be therapeutic, a way of letting her build independence. Knowing what we know, it's hard not to see this as poor decision-making on Yamaku's part, but it only makes any sense at all if they are either oblivious to Rin's problems or trying to let her solve them on her own terms.
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And now I'm done with Lilly's story. That was different! And I think it was probably the best story to end on. [This was the only arc where I felt like Hisao was at least as important to the plot as the girl he was dating. The focus is usually so much on the women and their problems. But Lilly's story was really Hisao's story. It was about his coming to terms with his condition, building himself a future, and learning how to love a person more maturely. Lilly is a foil for Hisao, not the other way around -- which is maybe fitting, given her personality! The love story, such as it was, was a bit trite, but I ended up feeling really satisfied, like after playing through this game five times I finally know who the protagonist is. It's a nice way to exit Katawa Shoujo.]
I think the Best Protagonist award goes to Lilly's plot, Best Character goes to Rin's, Best Use of Disability goes to Shizune's, Best Execution goes to Hanako's, and Most Believable goes to Emi's. All in all it's a remarkably solid game. I even loved the score, something I haven't talked about at all yet. Somehow hearing the same compositions over and over never got old. I tapped right along with Daylight every time, and got chills whenever I heard Shadow of the Truth. I can't decide whether the biggest award of all, Best Arc, should go to Rin or Shizune. Rin's arc is by far more ambitious; its writer is clearly very talented and really shot for the stars. But Shizune's arc, the next most ambitious, did a better job clearing the bar it set for itself and delivering on the promise of the character. If I had to say which one is a better crafted story, I would say Shizune's. But if I had to say which one moved me more, I would say Rin's without hesitation. So I'll leave it there.
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I've played this visual novel and I'm so glad I did! Rin's path was my absolute favorite and made me break down in tears the most. I also love Hanako's and Lily's paths. Lily's had the most closure to it, though. I didn't find the h-scenes tasteless but they weren't something I was rushing into the game to see. I loved the story and the characters.
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satyreyes wrote:
And now I'm done with Lilly's story. That was different! And I think it was probably the best story to end on.
Lilly's was the last story I went through as well, and I agree. It bookends very nicely and has more of a complete ending. [It also had a gripping climax, it was great to root for Hisao and not know for sure how his last ditch effort would turn out.]
The weird thing for me is that Rin's arc is probably my least favourite, but Rin herself is far and away my favourite character.
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ninthform wrote:
Rin's path was my absolute favorite and made me break down in tears the most.
Ragnarok wrote:
The weird thing for me is that Rin's arc is probably my least favourite, but Rin herself is far and away my favourite character.
Is it possible for me to agree with both of you? Rin's arc was very disappointing to me for reasons we've explored previously in this thread, but the fact that I was so disappointed just goes to show how much I cared. How much the story made me care. Honestly, if the resolution of Emi's conflicts had been bungled the way Rin's were, it wouldn't have been a big deal to me. Emi is neat and I like her, but the stakes are low and her story doesn't absorb me and beg for development and closure worthy of real literature. Rin's story did. This was no genre piece, but an exploration of a soul, and the author is trying so hard to write The Moon and Sixpence instead of a cliche love story. And that's why it's so fucking frustrating when e can't quite carry it off.
ninthform wrote:
I didn't find the h-scenes tasteless but they weren't something I was rushing into the game to see. I loved the story and the characters.
Well put. I had the same reaction everyone does when I heard "it's a dating sim about disabled girls made by 4chan." I was afraid their disabilities were going to be fetishized. You know. Rin does everything with her feet, and I mean everything. But no. The H-scenes almost always served the plot and the characters. They were rarely gratuitous, and never exploitative that I could detect, although some of them had the usual male-gaze problems. Rin's were my favorites; both of her scenes were shocking in a good way. Shizune's bondage scene also made my jaw drop. Having your hands tied behind your back takes on an entirely different, and chilling, meaning in her context. Hanako's climactic scene is also fantastic, and -- though it's a lot less loaded -- I thought Emi's first scene, with the frottage, was really cute (even before Rin showed up). I have to say that throughout the game I thought that some of the non-H scenes were hotter than the H-scenes, though.
Last edited by satyreyes (07-12-2012 09:18:05 PM)
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I fell in with Emi's story pretty quickly, and so far I'm loving the game as a whole. To be honest, I'd been griping over which girl to pick, but then I realized as I filled in my choices, that I was already subconsciously "picking". I was not a smart story player, and didn't save when I had choices to make. Oops. But that's OK, it seems the game is pretty forgiving about that, and I do plan to play every girl's story eventually, because I like them all.
I actually disliked Rin the most at first, I found her brashness to be off putting. She is growing on me though, and I get to see lots of her in Emi's story. To be honest, I think that she would make the most sense to be with for sure, given her interests.
One thing I really like about this game is that you have grounds to be with each girl. Nothing feels forced about the relationships.
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Syora wrote:
One thing I really like about this game is that you have grounds to be with each girl. Nothing feels forced about the relationships.
Mmm hmm! You fall into each girl's story pretty naturally. The right options to choose a given girl might not always be totally obvious, especially the first time around, but by the time the festival comes around you're never surprised by who you end up spending the day with. And most of the relationships develop after that in pretty organic ways.
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satyreyes wrote:
Syora wrote:
One thing I really like about this game is that you have grounds to be with each girl. Nothing feels forced about the relationships.
Mmm hmm! You fall into each girl's story pretty naturally. The right options to choose a given girl might not always be totally obvious, especially the first time around, but by the time the festival comes around you're never surprised by who you end up spending the day with. And most of the relationships develop after that in pretty organic ways.
OH MY F*C-
... For the festival day, I'm hanging on the roof with Kenji. DUDE. I cocked up my second play through. I'm like track team captain.
I am just as depressed as Hisao about this turn of events.
15 minutes later
WOW. Did anyone else get the REALLY bad ending?
Sorry I'm laughing so hard right now. I was busy getting save states for every branch point and didn't really think about what I picked. It's SO funny.
Edit2: Can you not pursue Misha?
Last edited by Syora (07-24-2012 01:19:15 PM)
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Yes, I've gotten that ending too. The way the game is set up, if you haven't settled onto a single girl's path by the festival the game can't progress. Once Act 2 starts, it will always be based on one girl; you'll be locked in to her story from the festival on.
Syora wrote:
Can you not pursue Misha?
Nope.
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Is it just me, or is the method to reach Rin's route rather unintuitive?
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Atropos wrote:
Is it just me, or is the method to reach Rin's route rather unintuitive?
Hmm... I didn't think so. I got on Rin's path my first run through the game, just by picking what seemed natural. I think it basically boiled down to not showing a particular interest in anyone else -- especially Shizune, who kind of has a way of interfering with other people's paths. But that was easy for me, because I disliked Shizune immediately.
Syora, I just now played through Kenji's path. A little harsh there at the end. The funny thing is that he's telling the truth about [having had a girlfriend, and a couple of the paths give you hints about who it was].
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I'd expected it to be somehow tied into Emi's route(which I got on my first playthrough), but I actually found it by accident. I was trying to get onto Lilly's at the time.
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Wow it's been a while since I've posted. I enjoyed all the routes, but the one thing I couldn't handle was just how dense Hisao was. Good lord. Natsuru and Shirou ain't got nothin' on Hisao, Master of Romance.
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I like the aspects you all have brought with your playthroughs. I have a slightly different perspective, but just thought I'd reply.
When I first went through, just making choices with no real thought, I got Kenji route / bad end, which made me half-sad that I got the result, but happy to have it out of the way.
After that, I managed into Shizune's route, which was, I felt, pretty good. The artist and the writer really worked well with each other, describing things that were actually there COUGH LILLY COUGH . I think I enjoyed hers the most. Not so much her dad, her brother was okay, and Misha was tolerable.
Lilly followed, and I'm not certain that I totally appreciated her. Not being clear or honest with people for the sake of "dignity" is down-right retarded, in my opinion. She had wants, she had needs, but decided to reject her own life for the approval of her family. Granted, she stayed, but only because Hisao has an attack in the airport. I also wish the artist and writer worked better together, especially in the hospital scene. There were no wires! Why say there are things there that aren't!?
Hanako was alright. I appreciated her more than Lilly, though I caught myself shouting at Hisao for myself knowing and understanding things about her that he had yet to realize.
Emi's route was pretty good. No real gripes, though maybe a bit raunchy for my tastes. Pleasant, story was solid, from what I remember. I also remember the many fitness threads and images she spawned after this game's conception, which I thought was a good thing for the stay-at-home-computer-lovin' peeps out there.
Rin, unfortunately, I thought to be the weakest (though it was supposed to be the strongest, for the creator). I think a lot of things that could have been good died for the sake of comedy or angst. I didn't enjoy playing through the labyrinth that was this route, either, just to get dem schweet imaegs.
For me, ranks went: Shizune>Emi>Hanako>Lilly>Rin
Glad to know I wasn't the only person to play it
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I tried playing today, but I got a bit bored with it. Maybe it's because I got the bad end, so I didn't get to see more of the girls' storylines. I didn't really know what I was doing, I was trying to go with Shizune but apparently I failed. XD; Anyway, I feel too burnt out on it to keep playing for now, I'll try again tomorrow maybe.
Last edited by HonorableShadow (10-01-2012 02:20:37 PM)
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My favorite of all ended up being Shizune, even though she was the one I liked the least at the beginning. The first time around I got Emi, who was cute... I think my least favorite path was Rin's, I dunno, I felt a bit bored with it. I like Rin herself, some of her lines made me laugh out loud, but her story felt it was about to do something but didn't?
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Well I played through it today. I accidentally got Rin's route when I was trying for Shizune's. I got half way through the second act of her route and I was bored to tears. Hisao watches her paint at one point and says "I'm literally watching paint dry." That's how I felt about her entire route. It was mind-numbing and I ended up quitting and going back to try for Shizune again. I got her route this time and I'm enjoying it 100% more than Rin's. I really like Shizune, I just reached the beginning of act 3 and I feel like she's a really well done character. I enjoy her competitive spirit and playfulness, and even her mean streak.
Still, I wonder if maybe this game just isn't for me? I might call it quits after Shizune's route, though I may give Emi's route a shot. Somehow I feel like Lilly and Hanako's routes will have a similar tone to Rin's.
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