Civil war in Turkey has just started.

Looks like the coup subsided. No one outside Turkey is "pulling the strings". My best guess is that it was staged by the army generals to remind Erdogan pointedly who is actually in charge there since about three months ago the arrest of many high-ranked military officers was rumored to happen for their alleged planning of a coup in 2003 (which is a thing they do there, from time to time). It is hearsay but fairly convincing.

When I first saw Melania Trump criticizing immigration, I thought that was about as awkward as if my own mother, who also moved here, decided to criticize it. Not that there's any reason you couldn't hold those views, but it would be pretty ironic.

But, apparently, the words weren't hers at all, so I guess I'll let it slide.

Somewhat more seriously, I can't imagine the lines were taken by accident/a completely incompetent writer. You don't use completely important writers for big events like this. What I am wondering is why, exactly, it was done. And if the reaction occurring is what was wanted (by the campaign? by the individual writer?) or not. Were they just simply trying to set up a Trump vs. Obama comparison without explicitly saying so, and happened to use too much direct wording and too little paraphrasing? Or did they actually want it to end up as a news story for some reason or another? Was the speech writer some bitter grad student who knew he was getting fired from this gig after the convention and wanted to be spiteful? I just wish I knew the inside story.

.... Well, I'm also wondering why I had to take all those obnoxious plagiarism modules in undergrad and law school if there are, apparently, no real world repercussions for it. But that's pretty secondary. (And yes, that's tongue in cheek. I know there would be real-world repercussions doing this or stuff like it in a legal brief or academic journal. But hey.)

Valeli, have you seen my post on the previous page? It was heartfelt and field with childhood trauma, ideals, and my strained English.
That feeling when you mull over something and once you meticulously write it down, it turns out to be the last post on a page and probably no one has so much as seen it.

Perhaps not directly connected to politics but pertaining to something that's been bugging me beyond the telling of it for some time: ubiquitous hateful comments hiding behind freedom of speech. Someone I follow on twitter wrote:

so some dude gets banned for repeatedly violating Twitter's ToU but claims his "free speech rights" are violated

is this 1996

if so let me oblige

free speech means the government can't jail or shoot you for being your rabid hateful selves

that's it that's all

Somehow it brightened my mood considerably.

As a US citizen who has spent my entire life in one state, (save for three semesters spent in California, but California is nuts and I will never identify with it) and furthermore, a state in which there is some discussion about secession, albeit probably not serious discussion, (see up-thread, also note that I wonder if said discussion will become more genuine if Trump is elected, and would not be surprised if it did) I identify as an American only out of guilt and self-flagelation.  Any pride I have for my place of origin is as a Washingtonian or Seattlite.

What's more, at least 90% of the time I come into contact or deal with "the government" it'll be state or city government, guided by state and city laws, over which the national government has about as much influence as the UN does over national laws.  I will concede sovereignty to the United States, but it is a concession.

Also, another strike against the Brexit as a necessary assertion of British nationhood: the EU isn't going to send armies to stop them, as the US did against the Confederacy, or would likely do against Cascadia, were we so resolute.  The EU might erode the power of nations, but it does not deny them the ability to reclaim those powers if they so choose, and is thus a voluntary association rather than an involuntary one the way the US is.  I suppose it is a positive outcome of the Brexit vote that it affirms this, but… at this point, it's been done, and any actual exit is superfluous to this purpose.

And lastly, while this may be a product of biased reporting, my impression of the vote was that Brexit passed because of:

a) a core of genuine xenophobia working to motivate voters

b) a sense of unreality, (perhaps the same sense of unreality that lead Trump to be a serious nominee for president) since many voters interviewed said they voted that way to make a statement, they didn't think it would pass and likely didn't really want it to

c) an uninformed voting population, as "what is Brexit" was a top Google search in Britain leading up to and shortly following the vote

Valeli wrote:

I just didn't reply because it's probably not the sort of argument that could or would go anywhere (in my opinion, at least). I mean, it's certainly debatable, but I'm ok with each of us just stating our preferences and moving on.

Oh, good. I hate arguing!

Valeli wrote:

The only reason I spoke up at all was because everyone else seems to think leaving the union was the worst thing ever, and I wasn't happy with it being portrayed as if that's 100% the case.

I get that. In fact, I often do the same when I find that my point of view is vastly underrepresented.
I've read your posts, tried my best to approach them with an open mind to get where you're coming from (quite literally). I should have probably stated right away that I didn't want to argue nor would I attempt to pull you over to my side. But I suppose just as you wanted for your perspective to be present here, I - quite irrationally - wanted you to learn about mine. At least in part, why it matters to me and that it's not all about money and practical facilities for many people who support integration.

For the record, my knowledge of the USA is very limited but from what I gather they are much different to the EU which is quite a casual conglomerate of - in all essentials - independent countries. I don't believe it aspires to draw resemblance to the USA. It has its own way as it is somewhat of a stretch to compare European countries to American states for a number of factual reasons. We build from very different bricks.
So the EU is still in the process of finding its inner form (exciting!). Some people want very close union but they're in minority. Some want it less influential. I myself would like to see more of a direct relation between the union and the citizen, preferably in form of common constitution and proportional voting for transnational parties. Well, I would actually welcome a few more changes but not so many, and nothing at all that would be heading into direction of the USE.

Valei wrote:

Sorry if this was all a bit stream-of-consciousness, it's a bit late here.

No, it was interesting. As I said before, I don't know much about the USA. Having read your posts and then Kita's I can see now that I underestimated the value of states' identity - I think here in Europe it is predominant thinking that the USA citizens consider themselves just Americans.
So thanks for sharing all this.

Kita-Ysabell wrote:

British nationhood

That's another matter. British are of course English, Welsh, Scots and Irish. I've yet to meet one who claim British nationality. I am sure that there are people like that but I haven't met them. Someone I've known online of English-Welsh origin told me that because of that mixed background, his EU identity was especially important to him. He hadn't once claimed British nationality as we spoke.
Now the situation is particularly unpleasant with Scotland and Northern Ireland which voted Remain.

Kita-Ysabel wrote:

And lastly, while this may be a product of biased reporting, my impression of the vote was that Brexit passed because of:

It's not a product of biased reporting, these were the reasons that persuaded most Leave voters.
But I am sure there were some people who had been more thoughtful about it and still voted Leave.

"what is Brexit" was a top Google search in Britain leading up to and shortly following the vote

It was "what is the EU" and the search peaked right after the results had been announced.
Some prognosticated then that something like "Trump's political positions" would turn out a top search after presidential elections in the USA.

Last edited by malna (07-21-2016 04:49:48 PM)

I'm sorry if this seems "racist," but after reading up on household debt in different countries, I've noticed a pretty strong correlation between average household debt and the general level of arrogance/insanity in a given country.

Just my general impression of its culture. It's totally unscientific.

Breitbart just posted an article parroting a Huffington Post article criticizing the TPP. I think it's starting to be less an issue of "left" vs "right" and more an issue of grassroots v man in the high tower. Which is what it was always really about, when you think about it.

On Millenial political activism:



TL:DW Millenials as a general rule had emotionally deprived early childhoods, and this desire for a return to the womb has lead them to hugbox political agendas.

Last edited by zevrem (08-03-2016 12:10:34 PM)

...and in France, Marine Le Pen’s National Front has received a huge loan from Russia.
National parties' success in the western world translates directly to weakening alliances (the EU, NATO) and this is Putin's play. Divide and conquer. Easy-peasy.

Last edited by malna (09-09-2016 07:02:49 AM)

I hear you. I found it all hard to believe at first too, and thought exactly the same thing - it's got to be political suicide for a party, at the same time strengthening the opposition. Apparently not.
It is a part of a broader strategy of Kremlin's.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 18236.html <- This very brief article estimates the scope of it:

The parties who have received Russian funding have not been revealed, but the list is thought to include a number of far-right organisations like Italy's Northern League, Hungary's Jobbik, Greece's Golden Dawn and France's Front National - which received a €9 million (£6.9 million) loan in November 2014 from the First Czech Russian Bank, which is believed to have ties to the Kremlin.

Also,

Since at least 2009 Russia has actively cultivated links with the far right in eastern Europe. It has established ties with Hungary’s Jobbik, Slovakia’s far-right People’s party and Bulgaria’s nationalist, anti-EU Attack movement. Here, political elites have become increasingly sympathetic to pro-Putin views.

According to Political Capital, a Budapest-based research institute which first observed this trend, the Kremlin has recently been wooing the far-right in western Europe as well. In a report in March it argued that Russian influence in the affairs of the far right is now a “phenomenon seen all over Europe�� . Moscow’s goal is to promote its economic and political interests – and in particular to ensure the EU remains heavily dependent on Russian gas.

source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … ational-eu

More than that, Garri Kasparow claims that Russian offensive in Syria was actually meant to strongly enlarge the wave of refugees seeking asylum in Europe, because that causes a lot of resistance from some part of society across the EU, and these angry people are much more likely to vote for far right-wing parties, increasing their ratings and influence on politics. Which is exactly how it has played out in many European countries already.


And now, for dessert! Nigel Farage may soon host his own show on Kremlin-sponsored tv channel.
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russia- … rage-55284

edit: Stop me right there, I am beginning to think of Putin as Akio's less-fortunate-in-terms-of-presence brother. And Nigel Farage would be his less-fortunate-in-terms-of-presence Saionji bayard. It fits!

Last edited by malna (09-11-2016 02:56:05 AM)

zevrem wrote:

The Russians have a history of working with agitators of all stripes.

what would sex with Yuri Alexandrovich kun be like

zevrem wrote:

What

would sex with this Soviet defector be like, yes, that's the question.

Redirecting my travel because North Korea is bugfuck insane. And, getting threat-happy again.

Amasis wrote:

what would sex with Yuri Alexandrovich kun be like

When he was alive, or now?

I suspect there's a difference.