This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
I'm excerpting this whole thing because the site is crap, but here's the link in case you want to read the admittedly lollertastic comments section.
My Wabash Valley wrote:
A team of Valley high schoolers and parents rally for a separate prom that bans gays.
NBC 2's Paige Preusse reports how Sullivan High School says there's nothing legally they can do to allow it... several students and parents are taking matters into their own hands.
Several parents, students, and others who believe gays should be banned from the Sullivan High School prom met Sunday at the Sullivan First Christian Church.
"We don't agree with it and it's offensive to us," said Diana Medley.
Their idea is to create their own separate...traditional prom. Students say there are several others from their high school who agree, but are afraid to take a stand.
"If we can get a good prom then we can convince more people to come and follow what they believe," said student Kynon Johnson.
And now they want everyone to know where they stand.
"We want to make the public see that we love the homosexuals, but we don't think it's right nor should it be accepted," said a local student.
But not all in the community think what they're doing is right.
"We shouldn't be condemning people, and that's what judgement is. Christ came to save the people not to condemn them."
Local man Jim Davis says we've all sinned...so why should gays be treated with less respect?
"Love them as a person. You don't have to love what they do, because the gays may not love all the mistakes you make," said Davis.
Diana Medley is a special education teacher in town. She doesn't believe anyone is born gay.
"I believe that it was life circumstances and they chose to be that way; God created everyone equal," said Medley.
"Homosexual students come to me with their problems, and I don't agree with them, but I care about them. It's the same thing with my special needs kids, I think God puts everyone in our lives for a reason," said Madley.
"'So the same goes for gays? Do you think they have a purpose in life?' No I honestly don't. Sorry, but I don't. I don't understand it. A gay person isn't going to come up and make some change unless it's to realize that it was a choice and they're choosing God," said Medley.
Several local pastors support the separate prom movement.
"Christians have always been prepared for a fight. Jesus gave us armor for the front, not the back; we're not running anymore," said Bill Phegley with Carlisle Church.
Others, on the other hand, think they're casting stones... instead of spreading love.
"The feeling of being loved and belonging is universal," said Davis.
So, uhh... being gay is like being retarded, guys! Did you know that? Also, being a good Christian means learning to put up with retards and gays so you can go to heaven! They, however, will still go straight to hell
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Yasha wrote:
words
Water wet, Pope Catholic, sun rises in east: film at ten.
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"It's the same thing with my special needs kids" shows me this person shouldn't be dealing with either, really. Particularly, since she doesn't think homosexuality is innate but then compares it to something that is always biological if not prenatal. (And, that they don't have a purpose in life.)
Gah.
"Armor for the front, not the back" should somehow be their slogan, though. It's innuendo-y.
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Nova wrote:
Yasha wrote:
words
Water wet, Pope Catholic, sun rises in east: film at ten.
You might live where this is the norm, but for me, this display of the most disgusting facets of humanity is yet another reason for the day I inevitably go postal with an uzi.
Also, I like to make fun of idiots.
Edit: Maybe she's saying that retards choose to be retarded
Last edited by Yasha (02-14-2013 10:10:37 AM)
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The intelligent comments make it all worthwhile. And the quoted response from the school district.
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Of all the... It really is a shame that there are still people today who think like this.
"We want to make the public see that we love the homosexuals, but we don't think it's right nor should it be accepted," said a local student.
Sounds to me like you're contradicting yourself there. How can you love them, but what to shun them at the same time?If you really did love them, there are better ways to show it.
Diana Medley is a special education teacher in town. She doesn't believe anyone is born gay.
"I believe that it was life circumstances and they chose to be that way; God created everyone equal," said Medley.
What the... Who the hell would willing choose to be ridiculed? With all the crap we people in the GLBT community have to put up with, why does anyone still think it is a choice? If I had a choice, I would most likely choose to be part of the majority group. But then I would probably just feel depressed from repressing my true self just for the sake of how others view me.
Anyways, I don't know why these people think the prom will automatically be ruined if gays are included. It's not like anyone is forcing them to hang out with them the entire night. All they need to do is just mind their own business and not worry who other people are dancing with.
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If it's any consolation, this kind of person will go the way of the dinosaur, even in the US, eventually. Or the way of the ... damn it, creationism, you have no witty analogy. I've never actually met a person who speaks on homosexuality like this, ever. I should do a tour of the deep south or something, have my mind blown.
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"Love them as a person. You don't have to love what they do, because the gays may not love all the mistakes you make," said Davis.
"Homosexual students come to me with their problems, and I don't agree with them, but I care about them. It's the same thing with my special needs kids, I think God puts everyone in our lives for a reason,"
So being gay means to be mistaken and retarded?
I disagree very much with a lot of what's being said in that article. It must be hard for homosexuals to live in places where they are discriminated like this. At least, I'm glad that this kind of discrimination doesn't exist where I live.
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Stephen wrote:
If it's any consolation, this kind of person will go the way of the dinosaur, even in the US, eventually. Or the way of the ... damn it, creationism, you have no witty analogy.
They will go the way of all the gay animals during the Noachian flood.
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You know, I never understood how anyone could believe anyone chooses to be gay. I know I didn't choose to be straight. Somehow I always knew it was my destiny to marry a boy.
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I would say, in a way, you can choose to be gay.
Hear me out here, for a second, before judging me as a horrible person?
I think, because so many people hide their sexuality (in general, not just speaking of queerness), it's not exactly an odd concept to pretend that you can be something other than what you are. I think a lot of gay people go through that phase of having to acknowledge that they are not straight, in whatever manner. I know it's something that took me years to come to grips with. I also think some people stuff that possible gay down, especially if they're more bi/pan than full-on only-same-gender-love, and never acknowledge that they may be in the queer spectrum. And that IS a choice. I don't think it's a good one, but I can also see why the more conservative people could think it's possible. There's also people like me who end up reinforcing the 'choose not to be gay' ideal, simply because I'm female and engaged to a guy. My sexuality isn't changed, but I can't be open about it now (I could, but my parents are still a bit too much in my business, and I'm still a bit too much dependent on them so... haha. :/), and it continues to reinforce the myth.
That's kinda what I'm saying. And I probably phrased it oddly, sorry.
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I think the "born/choose" argument has a lot of fuzzy ground, but also: It only really matters if you think homosexuality needs a defense/excuse.
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Yasha wrote:
Words.
This offends me in a lot of ways:
"Homosexual students come to me with their problems, and I don't agree with them, but I care about them. It's the same thing with my special needs kids, I think God puts everyone in our lives for a reason," said Madley"
"So the same goes for gays? Do you think they have a purpose in life?' No I honestly don't. Sorry, but I don't. I don't understand it. A gay person isn't going to come up and make some change unless it's to realize that it was a choice and they're choosing God," said Medley.
So you are saying that being gay is the same as being autistic which I'm diagnose with; If i'm Gay and Retarded does that mean I have no real purpose in life.
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But guys, we're missing the most important issue: what music would they play at the gay prom? (/sarcasm)
Seriously though, we need more gay pop songs. Or gender neutral. What's on the radio is just so heteronormative, it's annoying, and this isn't really the sort of thing that usually bugs me.
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Rosesareawesome101 wrote:
So you are saying that being gay is the same as being autistic which I'm diagnose with; If i'm Gay and Retarded does that mean I have no real purpose in life.
That's what she's saying. It's better to laugh that be offended, though. Being offended could mean you're taking her seriously, and she doesn't deserve that
I hope the gay prom has a drag show! I love drag queens
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Yasha wrote:
Rosesareawesome101 wrote:
So you are saying that being gay is the same as being autistic which I'm diagnose with; If i'm Gay and Retarded does that mean I have no real purpose in life.
That's what she's saying. It's better to laugh that be offended, though. Being offended could mean you're taking her seriously, and she doesn't deserve that
I hope the gay prom has a drag show! I love drag queens
Of she deserve, her perspective of Homosexuality is awful, the sh*t she said about Homosexual and Autistic people being same and having no purpose in life made it the most offense post from my perspective. It represent everything wrong with the religion these days in regards to homosexuality.
Plus it a shit article overall
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rhyaniwyn wrote:
You guys are all a bunch of handout-loving liberal communists.
You're in the Tea Party, aren't you?
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Lol, I love it when Christians act all persecuted and defenseless.
Why will no one tolerate my intolerance?
Why do I sometimes have to look at things or be around people who do things?
We are the only people struggling with how we feel in a society that disagrees sometimes with those feelings.
We give and give and give and are so much better than other people so why won't they do what we tell them to?
In Saudi Arabia or Iran I would be killed just for being Christian. <<<< ACTUAL QUOTE FROM A FUCKING PAPER I GRADED. I was nice and just told him that in academic writing, especially social science research oriented papers, you don't make any kind of generalization about a group of people without some sort of evidence or logic to back it up.
Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (02-21-2013 02:06:00 PM)
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The comments of Ms. Diana Medley, a supposed special education teacher, are disgraceful and not becoming of an educator. As a Christian, I find her using her position as a public figure to spread hate appalling. Often, kids who would come to her with their problems have no one else to turn to, and yet she treats them with utter disrespect. As history has shown us, segregation of differences has perpetuated hatred and malice and fixed nothing
That is it in a nut shell; state/gov. approved segregation is wrong. If you have to fund the state/gov., via taxes, you have rights to services and respect that the majority gets. The warnings anginst the tyranny of the majority have never been more apt.
huzzah for Drag Queens. This reminds me that, I need to go to another Drag Brunch.
Also Tea Party? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTU2He2BIc0
Last edited by SexingTouga24/7/365 (02-22-2013 03:03:09 AM)
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Between shit like this and shit like Orson Scott Card, I'm loving my man (and yours), Congressman Mark Takano, that much more. Sure, he's a gay, nonwhite, teacher and writer, which is a helpful perspective, surely, but he's also just hella smart and good. A little bit of balance to the other end of things.
Still finding solace in the saner comments at that link. God, but some people are assholes, and it's always good to call them out.
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Yasha wrote:
rhyaniwyn wrote:
You guys are all a bunch of handout-loving liberal communists.
You're in the Tea Party, aren't you?
"I just think the Republicans have a point. If everyone in the world were gay, the human race would die out, you know?"
...
Someone actually said that to me, once. Quite contemplatively and seriously. I don't even. It kind of makes my head feel squishy with stupid when I think about it too hard.
Last edited by rhyaniwyn (02-22-2013 12:10:35 PM)
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Why will no one tolerate my intolerance?
This is a point though. I mean, I don't particularly support intolerance. And I don't think the government should enforce their views on everyone (or anyone). But if you're going to be tolerant of people and allow freedom of expression and speech and all that, I believe you've got to make sure you extend it to the crazies as well (not that I think all Christians are crazy. I'd say many certainly aren't, and I'd say you can do some fun philosophical/theological stuff with Christianity if you're so inclined). I feel similarly regarding bans on tiny minority Nazi/Far Right parties in various European nations. I understand the logic behind banning them, but at the same time I feel it's problematically hypocritical to embrace political freedom so openly while denying it it to (an admittedly terrible) few.
This said, I agree that the "I'm persecuted because I'm Christian" thing can be funny in the US at times. Not because it occurring would be wrong, but because it occurs so rarely in an overwhelmingly Christian state.
As for the Christianity punishable by death in Iran, maybe he meant that renouncing Islam was punishable by death? Or that missionaries are regularly arrested in several countries?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar … 62a66e.5f1 (AFP News)
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/01 … pastor-to/(Fox News - I know, I know, I'm just grabbing links fast though, not doing a research paper).
http://www.aina.org/news/20101213202046.htm(AINA, same story, different source).
Etc. So whoever the student was, religious persecution of minorities does occur around the world (including - but certainly not limited to - persecution of Christians).
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Valeli wrote:
Why will no one tolerate my intolerance?
This is a point though. I mean, I don't particularly support intolerance. And I don't think the government should enforce their views on everyone (or anyone). But if you're going to be tolerant of people and allow freedom of expression and speech and all that, I believe you've got to make sure you extend it to the crazies as well (not that I think all Christians are crazy. I'd say many certainly aren't, and I'd say you can do some fun philosophical/theological stuff with Christianity if you're so inclined). I feel similarly regarding bans on tiny minority Nazi/Far Right parties in various European nations. I understand the logic behind banning them, but at the same time I feel it's problematically hypocritical to embrace political freedom so openly while denying it it to (an admittedly terrible) few.
This said, I agree that the "I'm persecuted because I'm Christian" thing can be funny in the US at times. Not because it occurring would be wrong, but because it occurs so rarely in an overwhelmingly Christian state.
Actually all of the above is the foundation for an absolutely unimpeachable rebuttal to Christian nationalists who mistake the erosion of their position of privilege for "persecution."
When someone who has a position of privilege tells me that their free speech is eroded because they can't call gay people faggots, I have a two word reply. When someone claims that there's a left-wing conspiracy to silence them, I have a two word reply. When a Christian authoritarian comes to me and claims that Christianity--or better yet, themself personally--is under siege or being persecuted in the United States, I have a two word reply:
Fred Phelps.
Fred Phelps, motherfucker. Fred Phelps walks free today. Fred Phelps' freedom of speech and freedom to worship in the United States has never been infringed. Fred Phelps does and says things so vile that the KKK have publicly disavowed him*, and yet every weekend he and his cohorts have taken their minivans to another one of their vile and shocking protests, making the news and twisting the knife. Every weekend. Fred Phelps believes in the Christian Bible so fervently that it drives him to do these things and say these things in the free worship of his religion, in the exercise of his Constitutionally-protected free speech. So when you look me in the eye and tell me that you are being persecuted for being Christian, or that your speech is not free, I ask you this: is your religion more twisted than that of Fred Phelps, are the things you say more unthinkably cruel and evil?
Because that's what you'd have to do to lose your freedom of religion and your freedom of speech. Fred Phelps has set the bar as low as it will go, and he walks free today.
(* This happened. The KKK, the right-wing racist white nationalist terror organization think Fred Phelps has gone too far. No joke.)
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Hmm. Valeli and Nova, I think you're both missing the point of OITL's students' complaints a little bit. Nova is right, of course, that in the United States you have the right to express your beliefs in whatever terms you like, no matter how hateful they are, with very few exceptions. (America is radical in this way, even by Western standards -- the same is not true in Canada or in the UK) And I believe Valeli is right that this freedom is fundamentally a good thing, even if it means we can't punish Fred Phelps or Neo-Nazis, because I do not someday want to be punished by my government for expressing subversive views; if I'm not going to be a hypocrite, I have to extend free speech to people I don't like as well as people I do. Free means free for everyone.
But I don't think OITL's students are worried about legal persecution. I think they're worried about social persecution. (There is a difference, as any second-wave feminist will tell you.) And there are indeed contexts where people with Christian or traditional beliefs find themselves socially marginalized. I don't think evangelistically abstinent teetotalers are a big hit at Penn State; I expect anti-gay activists living in Berkeley have trouble finding pleasant company. As far as I'm concerned, this is a good thing. I think that in the end, social pressure against people with intolerant beliefs will either eventually get them to cave or at least discourage young people from adopting the same beliefs. But if our wise and justifiable social "intolerance of intolerance" ever bled over into a law enforceable by the police, I would be right there with OITL's students complaining about it.
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