We're introduced to Shiori as a bad person. It's our first encounter(s) with her.

We're introduced to Anthy as if she's the world's victim and not, for the most part, playing victim to further control and demean everyone else.

If we'd spent twenty episodes seeing (what seemed to be) Shiori unfairly judged and mistreated, you might see more fans sympathetic to her, the way many are forgiving or dismissive of Anthy's horrible acts.

We're introduced to Nanami as an out and out cackling villain and it takes several episodes of her being hilariously assaulted by elephants and stuff before we have any empathy for her at all, when we get to around the kitten episode, maybe. Or the cowbell. Or, never.

(Also: Anthy and Akio both have to be masochists for any of their behavior to work. Anthy, especially, explicitly encourages her abuse and abusers, Akio included. Persecution complexes combined with being the most powerful people in the known world.)

EDIT: sorry for the double post, please delete one!

Decrescent Daytripper
If we'd spent twenty episodes seeing (what seemed to be) Shiori unfairly judged and mistreated, you might see more fans sympathetic to her, the way many are forgiving or dismissive of Anthy's horrible acts.

Already, a lot of fans are moved by Shiori's public disgrace scene into forgiving her, all in spite of the "Juri you suck" bad act coming right afterwards.  It's easy to forget/excuse a person's horrible acts when you see them suffer. 

But I always see the act of trying to right one's own wrongs as a sign of a "bad" person trying to come around. 

At the end of Utena, we see Shiori going after Juri into the fencing team with unexplained motives (it could be them making up, or Shiori again manipulating Juri aka no revolution occurred there); at the same time, we clearly see no apologies/warning to flee from Anthy to Kanae (no Kanae, really), or to anyone, really, thus confirming my belief that unto the very end, Anthy cares only about herself and the one she currently is in love with.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (12-13-2012 10:18:52 AM)

HonorableShadow wrote:

Lurv wrote:

It's true that people judge by appearances a lot (though people aren't always forgiving of someone using an innocent front, just look at Shiori. Then again, she does have her defenders too). Though about the 1000 swords of hate, I wonder if Akio couldn't have said "it's me you really want," and they would no longer target Anthy. But no one wants to be stabbed by a thousand swords obviously... Unless they are a masochist, I guess, or deeply in love/obsession with someone, or feeling really guiltty... well, I can't think of a strong motivation for Akio to want that. Who knows what happens after the show, though.

Could he have done that though?  I'm not sure.  He lost his nobility when he stopped being Dios and became Akio, so maybe the swords weren't interested in him?

Maybe! We're never really given an in-depth answer for how the swords of hate work, which I'm fine with, but it does leave things up to interpretation. I guess I just got the impression that Dios becoming Akio had less to do with Anthy sealing away his powers, and more to do with him losing his innocence upon seeing his own sister slaughtered.

(Also the masochism thing was partly a joke)

We're introduced to Shiori as a bad person. It's our first encounter(s) with her.

We're introduced to Anthy as if she's the world's victim and not, for the most part, playing victim to further control and demean everyone else.

Shiori also comes across as an unhappy person. Of course, she's screwed herself over by ruining her friendship with Juri, but she's acting very helpless which I think for some people causes more distaste than just the fact that she's bad. And it's not like people don't change their mind about a character when we learn more about them.

It's easy to forget/excuse a person's horrible acts when you see them suffer.

True, it's the whole (Jerkass) Woobie thing I guess.

But when it comes to Anthy making up for what she did, we don't even know if there's anything left of Kanae to fix... >_> That could make for an interesting fic though, Anthy post-series running into whatever's left of Kanae.

(I'm too lazy to tag these quotes correctly sorry)

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Lurv wrote:
That could make for an interesting fic though, Anthy post-series running into whatever's left of Kanae.

Battle of the Witches?

Is that an Utena fic, or is that how you'd imagine it go down?