Ouch!
I'll admit I'm not a fan of the movie myself, though. I don't think I can give a great response to this without rewatching the movie, but I don't really feel like doing that because, as said, I'm not a huge fan. I don't remember every bit of the movie well enough... I didn't like the car thing at the end at all. It just didn't work for me. I feel kind of bad watching it too because I like long-haired Utena better... and I can't help it. But every time I think about that I realize that 'm thinking about something which isn't important or relevant at all. Which makes me feel like an awful person. Maybe that's why I don't like the movie ~.~ (but I hope not). It's obviously an intentional artistic decision, and I can get several reasons why it might have been done.

Am I sexist if I can get on board with the idea of a long haired girl trying to be a prince, but find the idea of a short haired girl trying to be a prince somehow grating? There's degrees here, obviously. I'm certainly not running around trying to get women paid 50% less for equal work, or trying to convince my city council that they don't deserve the right to vote, or anything over like that. And I definitely don't actually have anything against girls with short hair styles, even if that's not how I'd wear my own hair were I a girl. How you want to wear your hair is none of my business in the first place. I don't think I'm sexist... and I certainly don't want to be. I just end up feeling really guilty about this. I wonder why it's a big deal for me.... I honestly think it has more to do with the hair than anything gender-related though. I'd be equally upset if the series did something to Akio physically/externally, while trying to have him be the same character mentally. Which implies that I found the long haired look to be more princely somehow, however counter-intuitive that is. Since, obviously, a prince would have had shorter hair. I think a more legit claim is that her longer hair has a more regal look, although it's awkward because it looks princessy rather than princey. And it's the regal look that I felt fit her, and this vanished when they clipped her hair and gave her that black and white beret.

Or maybe that's just a story I tell myself to try and pretend I'm not awful. At any rate, I don't think the above point has /too/ much bearing on the film's merits. It's just a personal hang up of mine.

The characters them self are shallow versions of their TV counterparts

To be fair, the series has (and in some cases takes) a very long time to develop the characters.

Some of the movie parts were very well done though. I loved the Escherish dance scene. That's partly a result of having a higher budget, as you say, but there's nothing wrong with using a higher budget to put together great scenes like that. I remember there were a few other scenes I liked as well, and I recall they did some interesting charachter stuff in at least a few cases (not just damagin stuff as you claim), but again, I'd have to go and rewatch it to really remember those. Hopefully someone whose seen this more recently (or has a better memory) can talk about them.

Last edited by Valeli (12-10-2012 11:06:38 AM)

Can someone make 2 different gif please:
1. TV series Akio on hood of his 57 corvette doing what he usually does
2. Movie Akio fabulously flipping over the hood of his
That would be much better then using stock quotes from the voice page.   
In fact I want someone to replicate these scenes as emoticons.

I completely disagree, and I hope that I may be able to at least partially convince you otherwise. I ask you to read the four Q-and-A-style character analyses I've written about the four main characters of the movie:

Akio,
Utena,
Anthy, and
Touga.

(Best read in this order.)

Please give these a fair read, and see if it changes your mind any. You're not the first to believe the movie is shallow and you won't be the last, but really, it isn't. It is dense, layered and multifaceted, and does an incredible amount of things in the short time that it has - and I'm not talking about a pretentious "omg, everything has deep symbolic meaning!" sort of depth. I mean that the characters have complex motivations and interactions that DO have thought and purpose behind them, and can be pieced together and understood as part of a whole narrative that makes sense. You'll also find there are many points of the movie that are rich wells of possible alternate interpretations.

Please let me know what you think.

Last edited by Aelanie (12-10-2012 01:00:46 PM)

Valeli wrote:

Am I sexist if I can get on board with the idea of a long haired girl trying to be a prince, but find the idea of a short haired girl trying to be a prince somehow grating?

I wouldn't say that's sexist. Especially since I prefer her long locks myself. Well, technically she does have long hair in the movie, but I feel the hairstyle she has in the series has more character. In the movie it's just long and flowy (when it's not kept up), probably so they can have more fun animating it, but in the show it looks more styled~
I also prefer Anthy's character design in the show.

However, since the characters are rather different in the movie, it makes sense to alter their appearance too. It clues you in on the role reversal for example. I like their uniforms, at least.

Movie!Juri's hair weirds me out though.

gorgeousshutin: Hrm... I'll still have to see that movie (before reading any reviews). I enjoyed 2.0 (for the most part) at least.

Last edited by Lurv (12-10-2012 01:05:23 PM)

Here's my question: do you buy into the sequel theory? It's starting to convince me, and I've decided to expand it to include the manga as well as the TV show and movie.

Lurv wrote:

Movie!Juri's hair weirds me out though.

It's representative of how Shiori has less power over her in the film: in the TV show, it signifies when she feels emotionally liberated.
I didn't quite get what her game was in coming on to Miki, but whatever.

And Movie-Shiori is just hot.

Kita-Ysabell wrote:

Oh dear, I've just gone and closely analyzed a bunch of fictional people's hairstyles.  What.

Lol! Well, I definitely think some thought must have gone into their hairstyles.

Yes, I will judge a work on whether or not I personally like the themes it explores.  Suck it.

I do the same. No regrets.

Edit: And yeah, the stylish, civilized look is more fitting for a prince. I guess movie!Utena is more lost? I'm not sure which word to use, honestly, because series!Utena is kind of lost as well (faulty memory and everything).

Last edited by Lurv (12-10-2012 02:52:41 PM)

I think I must be the only one in the history of the world who liked the entirety of the movie, and who genuinely thinks that the take on Akio is a pretty good one in terms of an alternate take on his personality and actions within all of the other incarnations. And I also loved Utena's hair. I've had this Akio comparison essay on the back burner for years now. Maybe I might actually write it before I start going grey.

EDIT: Just as an aside, I've had a spot of rum after a spectacularly vile day. I'll be back tomorrow to edit out all of the tipsy from my posts tomorrow, depending on whether or not I have another vile day and need more tipsy in my life to compensate.

Last edited by crystalwren (12-11-2012 05:17:00 AM)

Rosesareawesome101 wrote:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltk7y … o2_250.gif

Dat gif

I could stare at this forever.

No offense taken. Wouldn't have brought it up without looking for people's thoughts and, like I said, it's kind of been bothering me. So I think it would be entirely justifiable if someone else were slightly bothered too.

It's better to bring it up and acknowledge it, I guess, than pretend it's not there. Although it is nice to hear that other people have the same sort of feeling and I'm not entirely alone.

Atropos wrote:

And what do you think of his literal rape of Touga?

Touga was a rape victim in the show, too. And I don't simply mean that Be Papas intended to write the backstory of the movie into the show, though that's been somewhat confirmed. I mean that, in the show, he's a teenager with extreme mental and emotional problems who is being used for sex by an adult authority figure through both intimidation and the sense that it proves his own power and autonomy. (Japanese law recognizes a wider variety of rape by intimidation than US law, at least in terms of academic authorities, oddly enough.) Heck, he's been groomed to pull in other kids.

Not to rile up the Akio-lovers, as I know some are, but he's an adult (more than so, really) using children for sex, submission, and both physical and emotional violence.

The movie simply makes it undeniable that he's a rape victim. And that he's sought pleasure in this state. (And how messed up that is.)

Last edited by Decrescent Daytripper (12-12-2012 02:09:31 AM)

gorgeousshutin wrote:

The movie, on the other hand, made him a one-dimensional dweeb windbag, which makes the story itself far less dramatically-effective than the show itself, IMO.

Less than one dimension. His actual existence/characterization is almost measurable as a negative. He's built of Anthy's anxieties, and arguably Utena and everyone else's, much more than he's presented as a person on his own, at least in the present day. (And, possibly, at all.) The "Tou!" scene plays him completely hollow, but the panic at Anthy still being awake is so hammy, it too, is practically a performance and giant slow-walk ghosty Akio is... yeah. We have no evidence of Akio as a genuine person, not a memory, myth, or a performance. He's not presented as a person, for the most part, but a symbol, or what Scientology calls an "emotional engram" and his his appearances, essentially flashbacks of PTSDing students.

I like both for different reasons, but I think their motivations and role are essentially the same, it's simply the way that he's dressed up that's different, the way he's costumed, talked about, made up and lit. The projector is stronger in the show, and it's attractive lighting, complimentary.

Also: Tou! is fucking awesome, and his freak out re awake Anthy and cars that will rust is hilarious emperor's new clothes stuff. To each their own, naturally, but still, fucking awesome.

Last edited by Decrescent Daytripper (12-12-2012 10:14:32 AM)

Reviving the thread

Another problem that this movie has it make certain plot point more confusing then they are currently are via not including essential characters and Arc out of it continuity making it feel underdeveloped compared to the tv show.

The biggest one is the fact that Dios does't really exist in this continuity opens up a huge plot hole if you watch the show, it also shows how underdeveloped Utena's character is in this version, the fact that Touga is Utena's boyfriend in this version adds to the confusion.