Lurv wrote:

I was kinda sad that some of the stuff in the opening (like Anthy and Utena on flying horses) never happened

But imagine just how contrived that can come off as inside the show's setting if handled badly; I'm actually relieved that it was only there in the opening as a visual symbol to show the "heroic" qualities of the girls.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Lurv wrote:

I was kinda sad that some of the stuff in the opening (like Anthy and Utena on flying horses) never happened

But imagine just how contrived that can come off as inside the show's setting if handled badly; I'm actually relieved that it was only there in the opening as a visual symbol to show the "heroic" qualities of the girls.

True that, but when I started watching the show, everything seemed possible. I'd wondered if time traveling was involved at some point (yeah, when watching shows I rarely think of the simplest solutions >_>).

I see Instrumentality as an allegory for suicide. I doubt Anno was seriously proposing that failure to connect to other people would literally end the world.

Kita-Ysabell wrote:

In SKU, there are no miracles.  If you have a problem with the division between Self and Other, you're just gonna have to pull up you big girl/boy panties and get the fuck over it, because that's just how the world works, and inexplicable forces are not going to turn all of humanity into orange cool-aid to suit your whim.

The entire school is made possible by a magical power if not outright miracle.

Extreme luck, orchestrated coincidences, and outright magic occur constantly in SKU.

"Mysterious and inexplicable forces" motivate the entire series and its events.

Can I tell you guys something? Can I reveal the awful truth?
...I identify more with Shinji's personal struggle than Utena's.

Atropos wrote:

Can I tell you guys something? Can I reveal the awful truth?
...I identify more with Shinji's personal struggle than Utena's.

Not gonna lie, I've felt like a Shinji far too often.

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

The entire school is made possible by a magical power if not outright miracle.

Extreme luck, orchestrated coincidences, and outright magic occur constantly in SKU.

"Mysterious and inexplicable forces" motivate the entire series and its events.

See, I thought that was just Akio screwing with the projector.  But there's already a different thread for that, methinks.  Or possibly not.  Eh.  It's a matter of interpretation.

I do think I'm on to something, but I probably missed the mark with the "miracles" explanation.  Hrm.  There is something very, very grounded about SKU, I just have difficulty putting my finger on what.

Hrm.  Attempt #2:

A lot of "conceptual" anime series (i.e: EVA, Madoka, Texhnolyze, Gantz) depend heavily on an unrealistic premise to convey their ideas.  Shinji has to face battling alternate-human aliens with a giant mecha in order to struggle with the division of Self and Other.  Makoka has to confront the rules of the Puella Magi system to explore responsibility and emotional collapse.  Ichise has to live in a weird underground city to... act like he's staring at paint drying all day.  And that... well, that's pretty much how good science fiction in the tradition of H. G. Wells works.  And just for the record, I am totally down with that, except possibly for Texhnolyze, which is so bleak and the characters are so unaffected, it's just annoying.

But SKU is less like The Time Machine and more like... I dunno, Kafka's Metamorphosis, but with teenagers, and with the self-aware conventions of a comedy manga.  I can't help but feel that the absurdist elements are less a construction and more a reflection.  Of what, I'm not sure I can say.  The character's emotional struggles?  The way they view the outside world?  The power, or lack thereof, that they feel over the world?  The audience's expectations?  A dadaist rejection of symbolic meaning?

If the characters of SKU weren't involved in the premise of SKU (the metaphysical Ohtori academy and the dueling game) they'd still go through the same trajectories.  Utena would still have trouble reconciling the feminine gender role with the person she aspires to be, fairy tale metaphor or no.  Anthy and Akio would still have a screwed up relationship, immortal demi-gods or no.  I can imagine a retelling of SKU with no absurdist elements at all, and I imagine that it would be rather boring and lose a good deal of the commentary on cultural narratives.  Maybe a bit like The Perks of Being a Wallflower, (the book, I haven't seen the movie) and I've mentioned that while it contains a very direct and almost brutally true depiction of teenage life, it might therefore be inaccessible to actual teenagers.

Shay Guy, on Clarice's BR essay wrote:

As for the essay itself... I dunno. There's something about the writing style that sets off my BS alarm. It's not the sort of style one would use while posting on a forum like this, which leads me to suspect the author was more interested in looking impressive (she needed 10,000 words for this?) than saying anything of substance to anyone. It reads more like a literature teacher's lecture than part of a conversation, and Utena deserves a conversation.

It also reads like the work of someone who'd insist on reading deep meaning into every feature the student council's balcony ever sprouted. This is not a cartoon that always takes itself seriously.

Sounds like someone failed a literature class. I also find the assertion that Utena doesn't take itself seriously to be bizarre. Not everything is grim, but everything is intentional.

Last edited by Atropos (01-16-2013 01:55:44 PM)

For anyone who's still keeping track, Shay Guy's finally done his write-up for the movie.

D-d-d-double posting!

I just had to say this about Shay Guy's IWIW...


I drink your sweet tears.





Okay, serious time now. It's absolutely wrenching, in a good way, to read someone going through the same shit I went through when I first watched SKU. And he's even seen things I hadn't seen! And I've only just started reading his BRS write-ups! I've half a mind to register on that forum just to thank him for the smallish new insight Gio and I were kicking ourselves for not noticing and invite him here to add to discussion, on both this and Penguindrum. I'm actually even thinking of a rewatch thread, we haven't had one in a while.

*does some Googling looking for a post made by self on another forum*

*notices something that looks like someone talking about self*

*clicks link*

...

Um.

Shay Guy wrote:

No, wait! Come back! We want to talk to you!

Shay Guy wrote:

I DRINK YOUR SWEET TEARS


No, but seriously, thanks so much for the write-ups. It's really wonderful to see someone experience SKU for the first time; it brings out all sorts of nostalgia, and fresh perspectives on the series are wonderful! Thanks again for writing it all out!