This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
Ok, question. When you dream about yourself, do you actually see yourself or do you have the "first-person shooter" angle? I never see myself in my dreams, apparently there are no mirrors in my subconscious.
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Let's get this out quick before I forget.
I dreamt about a school, it was mostly a boy's school, although there was apparently enough exception that I was in it. A female teacher that was very popular got raped by two boys who were about to leave the school, and my dream was half their trial and half me sitting in a class reviewing for a final in something that seemed a blend of microbiology and physics. I knew some of the answers, enough to look like the smartass in the class, raising my hand to answer questions a little more often than anyone else, but I still had a lot of studying to do and was worried. In the middle of this, the judge (who I think was also the principal), decided these two boys were monsters, and were getting kicked out of the school and thrown in jail. They flipped out and started crying, apologizing profusely for their behavior (they were polite and quiet and clearly sorry for their behavior, it seems a snap act on their parts). They both in turns ran at the teacher to hug her and apologize and beg her to visit them (they seemed to be in love). This changed the setting to an open air mall at night, empty, and wet with rain. Each caught her within a few feet of those standing backlit directory/movie poster things you see in those places. The teacher both times benevolently hugged them, and from a mostly first person perspective, at one point, she brushed hair out from a boy's face and said something to the effect of 'No, I'm sorry, because of what this will do to your lives.'
Both boys had dark straight hair down to their shoulders, and while she (sorta I) spoke and touched the boy's hair, it seemed wet, and like there was dark blue dye in it. I registered the dye at vector lines from Photoshop bleeding out.
That's all I remember. I go back to beddies now, and analyze later, lol.
To answer your question Raven, it varies but there is usually a trend in people. I rarely see myself in dreams, but I often see, in first person, through other people in my dream, as I did in this one. In those cases I rarely have even dream logic control over what they do, certainly not lucidity. If all your dreams are first person, and you never see yourself in a mirror, the most obvious thing I can suggest is that you do not understand and perhaps even fear to see yourself from an outside perspective. A confusion of your grasp on how people in your life see you results in an inability to see yourself from similar perspectives in dreams. At the same time, because you're always first person, you may draw internally from a deeper sense of self than most.
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Giovanna wrote:
To answer your question Raven, it varies but there is usually a trend in people. I rarely see myself in dreams, but I often see, in first person, through other people in my dream, as I did in this one. In those cases I rarely have even dream logic control over what they do, certainly not lucidity. If all your dreams are first person, and you never see yourself in a mirror, the most obvious thing I can suggest is that you do not understand and perhaps even fear to see yourself from an outside perspective. A confusion of your grasp on how people in your life see you results in an inability to see yourself from similar perspectives in dreams. At the same time, because you're always first person, you may draw internally from a deeper sense of self than most.
Anyway, I've never thought of it that way. That was insightful yet vaguely terrifying all at the same time. Much appreciated!
I don't think I've gone into full-blown lucid dreaming, but I've done a little manipulating here and there during the lighter parts of my sleep cycle.
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when I was little, I'd always have ninghmares that I'm in a GIANT pile of sand. JUST sand. And i'd be picking up the grains of sand one at a time, counting them, and as I'd be holding them, they'd get bigger and BIGGER. (like fist sized) for each I counted, another would be added to a mysterious pile on one side, while I put the ones I couonted on the other side. Eventually, they'd get SO HUGE they'd fall on me. AND MESS UP MY COUNT.
Needless to say I HATE the beach.
in a sort of related manner, Mary Poppins made me think that bankers sit in a cage counting change. ALL DAY LONG. I was terrified of bankers for the longest time. (it didn't help that my family's bank is a CAVE. it has unfunushed granite walls and light filters through the top) Sometimes the dream would switch to me counting sand coloured dimes. Just because I hate dimes methinks.
I also used to have sleep paralysis and I'd be kinda awake and couldn't move, and an old lady would be yelling and shaking me. Then I'd wake up and an old lady would still be yelling and shaking me. My grandmother always had lunch at nap time. >O When i did it at home though, there was no old lady for the record. Just "I really wish i could move D:" I used to think it was normal. I'd be think/dreaming that I wanted to wake up and would be there trying to move for several minutes (or so I remember. It was probably considerably less.) Now if I really want to wake up I find myself in my dream all NO. WAKE UP TIME NOW. O__________o?!!? I really don't understand that and I wish it worked everyday.
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I had one of my zombie dreams last night -- I get them periodically, they just tend to be variations on movies like Dawn of the Dead/28 Days Later/Resident Evil and the like (it annoys me that not one of them tends to be funny the way Shaun of the Dead was, dammit). It always involves getting stuck in places while trying to survive, but the amusing part (I say that kind of tongue in cheek, as it wasn't a funny dream to be having, per se...) was that at one stage I went online to try and see how my friends all over were, and I came onto this forum and found random members here trying desperately to compile a "survivor" list while giving each other tips on how to stay on that list. Bloody odd dream, really, but it's better than my other two usual dreams of (a) being in a version of the Stephen King short story The Myst or (b) the creepy house that changes every time I go back there and yet is somehow still the same house.
...man, now I really don't feel like going to sleep. But it's two-thirty in the morning.
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allegoriest wrote:
when I was little, I'd always have ninghmares that I'm in a GIANT pile of sand. JUST sand. And i'd be picking up the grains of sand one at a time, counting them, and as I'd be holding them, they'd get bigger and BIGGER. (like fist sized) for each I counted, another would be added to a mysterious pile on one side, while I put the ones I couonted on the other side. Eventually, they'd get SO HUGE they'd fall on me. AND MESS UP MY COUNT.
Needless to say I HATE the beach.
in a sort of related manner, Mary Poppins made me think that bankers sit in a cage counting change. ALL DAY LONG. I was terrified of bankers for the longest time. (it didn't help that my family's bank is a CAVE. it has unfunushed granite walls and light filters through the top) Sometimes the dream would switch to me counting sand coloured dimes. Just because I hate dimes methinks.
I also used to have sleep paralysis and I'd be kinda awake and couldn't move, and an old lady would be yelling and shaking me. Then I'd wake up and an old lady would still be yelling and shaking me. My grandmother always had lunch at nap time. >O When i did it at home though, there was no old lady for the record. Just "I really wish i could move D:" I used to think it was normal. I'd be think/dreaming that I wanted to wake up and would be there trying to move for several minutes (or so I remember. It was probably considerably less.) Now if I really want to wake up I find myself in my dream all NO. WAKE UP TIME NOW. O__________o?!!? I really don't understand that and I wish it worked everyday.
Where is this bank? That's the coolest thing ever!
Anybody else have trouble seeing in dreams? Like the dream is going on, but your eyes are shut and you can't open them? It's truly frustrating. On a related note, when I'm having an unpleasant dream, I often have the sensation of having my eyes closed, and if I can force them open I wake up. That was cool until I had a dream where I did that and thought I woke up, but hadn't. Ooooooooh those dreams suck.
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So now after who knows how long of not being able to remember my dreams... I can remember two in the past few days! Go figure...
The first one, I was with some friends at an apartment complex I lived at years ago, and we were being chased around by a shark. There were also lots of other random people around, and everyone was fleeing for their life from the shark, as it would occasionally rise up from the water (which I have no idea where that came from) and eat a mouthful of unlucky victims. That one creeped me out a bit. If only partly because I have no idea what a shark would be doing somewhere miles away from the nearest water.
The next one, I was at a house that seemed based on a relative's, and for some reason there were giant spiders crawling around that I wanted nothing to do with. One of them had a gigantic egg-pouch laid in one of the bedroom windows, and before anything could be done about it, the thing burst open and there were giant spiders crawling everywhere. Then I woke up.
...I'm starting to feel like Nanami!
Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (05-16-2007 09:47:07 PM)
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EW!! Spiders! I hate and fear them (damn arachnephobia...)! This reminds me of this horrible dream I had when I was holding a lily bud and it turns out to be a "fly nest" where flies suddenly hatch out of the bud when the flower blooms I shiver as I type this now....
I recently also had a nother dream where my laptop screen suddenly turns dark and has flames bursting. Then it turns dark again, with texts showing with something along the line of, "Your computer has committed suicide. All the music, pictures, and documents shall never return again." And then, my laptop shows the flame and Sephiroth shows up in my laptop and does his classic "Walk away in flame" scene. And, then my laptop turns dark again. And so, it has committed suicide and I went WTF!?
And then, I tried to get it fixed by taking it to the mall (Apparently, there's someone who knows how to fix suicidal laptops there), and then suddenly, I'm being ambushed by those Pink Bunnies from Energizer Battery Commercials, and one of my very good friend was being controlled by them and started working for them and marching with them. And, for the rest of my dream, I pretty much am fighting against waves after waves of Energizer Bunnies
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Imaginary Bad Bug wrote:
So now after who knows how long of not being able to remember my dreams... I can remember two in the past few days! Go figure...
I wish I didn't remember my dreams! They're always very vivid and generally really horrible, and they wake me up in the middle of the night and I can't get back to sleep. Massive guilt-trips, getting killed, chased by monsters... you know the sort of thing.
Last night was good though. I was... uh, getting friendly with two girls... in a bed which was in the middle of a restaurant.
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rmt wrote:
Imaginary Bad Bug wrote:
So now after who knows how long of not being able to remember my dreams... I can remember two in the past few days! Go figure...
I wish I didn't remember my dreams! They're always very vivid and generally really horrible, and they wake me up in the middle of the night and I can't get back to sleep. Massive guilt-trips, getting killed, chased by monsters... you know the sort of thing.
Last night was good though. I was... uh, getting friendly with two girls... in a bed which was in the middle of a restaurant.
Can it be that your subconscious is seeking thrills for life? I've always wondered how it'd feel get seriously intimate in public areas (without cops intervene, of course)
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Hiraku wrote:
Can it be that your subconscious is seeking thrills for life? I've always wondered how it'd feel get seriously intimate in public areas (without cops intervene, of course)
Entirely possible. It always bugs me just how boring I really am.
I have had similar dreams involvings guys or both before, so it's not a one-off. I just wish those sorts of dreams outweighed the bad ones.
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Weird, I just had a dream last night, at first, it was a knitting class, but suddenly, the whole thing switched to a scene where Harry Potter had a face-off against Miki in the dueling arena
But the thing is, the duel already got started without the whole "Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku"... Then again, I probably missed it because I stopped on the way for cake (It was GOOD cheesecake). But the thing is, they were dueling NOT on the platform, but the staircase. So, I never get to see the platform myself
THEN the duel came to a tie (or a pause) Because someone brought in cheesecakes, so the whole thing sort of ended with everybody eating cheesecake...
I can tell you something, though. Pinning the rose on the chest, NOT as easy as the anime made it seem. I think at that time, I assumed the role of the Rose Bride since Anthy wasn't there for some reason... Or, maybe she was, but I don't really remember. But I know I was the one who pinned the roses.
Oh wait, Anthy was there, because I remembered that I wasn't the one who did the whole "Prince Transformation".
This dream is so confusing...
There's also something involving someone eventually stripping and dueling nude. I forgot which one was the one who did that...
This is a little bit IFD... I'm sorry
Last edited by Hiraku (05-17-2007 08:42:48 AM)
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I had a lucid dream for the first time in years yesterday. It started off like a normal dream (as normal as being on a sinking ship in the arctic ocean is, anyway) when I was suddenly at work naked. Usually a dream like that annoys me for the uncomfortableness of it, but this time I realized "Hey, this could never actually happen, I must be dreaming!" Then I got really excited and decided to fly around, but I guess I suck at being lucid, because I couldn't manage to take off. Soon after that I "woke up" and fell out of bed. Then I woke up in actuality, still in my bed.
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This dream I had just last week. It's amazingly coherent.
I was living in a kind of eerie town, the perfect kind for a horror story to take place, and my friend's (not an actual friend, but just in this dream) older brother had just come home after studying at some university. She also had a younger brother who was in a mental hospital. Things start getting strange after her older brother comes home... as in, a string of murders take place, starting at the mental hospital. Doctor gets killed, but nobody can find traces of DNA evidence or a murder weapon. However, his head is missing.
Next in cue for the killing is notably the younger brother, who was living at home again after the doctor was murdered, the older brother, and an old cat lady that my friend would clean house for. Again, in every case, the head is missing. My friend takes it upon herself to find out what exactly is going on, because the police aren't able to figure anything out for in this story they are incredibly NOT useful.
Soon, Halloween night arrives, and still no conclusive evidence as to what's causing the killing. We both notice that the lights in the old lady's house go on and off at night, and so we explore (bad idea?). The layout of the house is exactly like mine, and the lights are on, but it's seemingly empty. However, we get tangled up in sharp wires that we can barely see (luckily we untangled ourselves before they caused much harm). We then keep in mind to hold up an arm to prevent getting stuck in the wires again.
We wander through a small corridor into the kitchen. My friend is busy exploring, but from the corner of my eye I see a tall figure descend down the stairs past the corridor... at a second glance, I get a better look at it. Uneven, sallow complexion.. long white hair with a receding forehead, colorless eyes, pointed nose, teeth and ears, and claws. Eeergh, he was UGLY. He saw me, too, and smiled and nodded, his sharp teeth glistening. I tried warning my friend, but I was too afraid to say much of anything.
My friend was still busy exploring, when she opened a cupboard. Inside were the heads of those who were murdered, pickled in jars. Uh... yeah. Heads in jars. I backed further in to the kitchen, closer to my friend, as the creepy man-thing began to walk in our direction. I remember he said something like, "I will kill everyone, everything that ever meant something to you, until I finally have you." Weird. Creepy. Disgusting. He kept advancing forward, but luckily for us, WE WERE IN THE KITCHEN. I was scared out of my wits, though. My friend kept cool about it, and she was all like, "bring it on" as she grabbed a butcher knife and a meat cleaver.
I, on the other hand, went to get help because well, my friend told me to (I'm a total pansy in this plot, yes), so I'm running out into the streets calling for help, or something. Unfortunately, since Halloween isn't as popular as it used to be, there is no one outside that can be of any assistance. Before I know it, someone taps me on the shoulder. It's my friend, completely soaked in blood and smiling. What a happy moment. She won because she had an arsenal of kitchen weaponry. The end.
Moral of the story: Maybe women belong in the kitchen, but remember, kitchens are where the knives are at. And pickled heads are disgusting.
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For better or worse, I have the most vivid dreams when I'm skipping work.
I was in a palace, like something out of Arabian Nights, and room after room was filled with books, each room a slightly different style of decor. Like one would be tall, with huge ladders to get to the dusty volumes on top. Another was dark, hardly lit enough to read anything, and there were cobwebs and candles and corners where you could see nothing at all. Another was brightly lit, more like a library, with certain books in plastic slipcases. A volume of the maps of Middle-earth and a photographic encyclopedia of space, both wider than my head, were in these cases. I thought they were locked closed, so I examined more closely and saw they weren't. In my head, I was compiling a list of books I absolutely had to have. I saw no one in this palace, it seemed abandoned, and it didn't seem to me a problem if I took a vew home to read and returned them (or not) later on. These rooms were laid out in one long, square structure around a great courtyard. There were fig trees and palm trees with vines of roses crawling up their trunks; it was beautiful, but I didn't pay much attention to it.
Then a man came to me and delivered a set of suitcases, immaculate on the outside, but the inside fabric lining was torn to shreds, as if the corners of too many books had put too much weight on them. I understood the message to be a threat to leave the books alone, and I was incensed. I knew immediately this had been the work of the prince who owned this palace, so I tracked him down, eventually finding him in a large cafeteria of the sort from middle school. Brick red and blue plastic chairs sticking out from under the long tables, with trays before each kid. Certainly nothing palatial about it, but I didn't register anything wrong with that. I found the boy, he looked about ten, and immediately started yelling at him about how could he have the nerve, etc, etc. He had guards nearby him that looked antsy and suggested I treat him a little more gently, but I said not until he budged, because every drop of venom I was shooting, he was matching. He did, however, eventually budge, quieting a little and seeming if not scared, annoyed into compliance, and I sat next to him and spoke with him, though I don't recall the conversation. Eventually he walked away, and I spoke to his guards and warned them that their prince had the body of a ten year old but his mind was that of a toddler. I suggested he had serious psychological problems, and they did not argue with me. They nodded gravely, and we all understood it would make no difference. I started to wake up at this point, and my last thought in the dream was that the prince would never read any of the books in his own library.
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That's some mighty strong symbolism. Gio, your subconcious must be fucking Ikuhara. That almost sounds like some twisted fairy tale/fable, a prince with every book you'd ever want, but he is unable to read them. Actually, it's got somewhat of a twilight zone-esque ring to it.
Yes, I know, I'm only good for pointing out the obvious.
Well, since the necromancy has occured, I've remembered a dream I had mentioned. It was my wedding day, and I was dressed in white. To my left was a woman, dressed like myself, smiling from under a veil. I would imagine we were wed, though I seemed to skip the wedding in my mind. I was lying in a large bed, shaped like Utena and Anthy's, only draped in red velvet. I rolled over onto my side and glanced into a mirror beside the bed [kinky!], and saw the reflection of an elderly woman, falling apart at the seams. To age is one of my very worst nightmares, and I was so scared, because I had missed all my youth. I ran to the bathroom, where a large, conveniently full, marble tub awaited me. I grabbed the hair-dryer from the counter and slipped into the water [somehow, between the bedroom and the bathroom, clothing escaped me]. As I was about to flick the 'on' switch, a dark figure appeared before me. Understandably, death. He asked why I would do this, and I told him my fear of growing old and decrepit, and how my youth had been spent too soon. He told me I would be alotted one wonderful dream before I died, and he left. My reflection in the waters surface was now that of a young, flourishing woman, and I was overcome with joy. The water started to splash and stir about, and Razara emerged. It was rather strange, but of course, I wasn't one to complain. I would imagine I had a bit of fun before death, though unfortunately, I recall no details.
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dollface wrote:
unfortunately, I recall no details.
Aww.
All of your have such interesting dreams. They seem to have deeper and symbolic meanings. My dreams, on the other hand, always seem so random to me that I can't pull any meaning out of it. (And I never get to have any fun dream-sex with dollface. Maybe someday...)
Edit: Typo.
Last edited by Razara (06-04-2007 06:20:44 PM)
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I went to bed at 7:30 AM...
I tried to wake up early, too, so I could fix my schedule again, but I slept til 3:30 PM.. and I had crazy dreams of going to a new-age store and looking at the candles, and there was this fancy candle I saw and it was shiny and pretty. The store-owner was a creepy man who kept eying me creepily.. anyway, instead of looking at the price-tag of the candle, I stupidly got out a lighter and burned it, and it burned pretty quickly til I had to pull it out.. then it was as if the store-owner was waiting for me to do that, because he pointed to the price-tag, which was fifty bucks for such a tiny candle. Since I didn't have that kind of money, he was going to try and rape me.
..and then this lady, Chinese, I think, bust in and beat the crap out of him, using cool kung-fu moves or something, and she had a cool outfit, too. I think her name was "Chui" or "Choi" or something.
In my dream the night before, my corner canine teeth were hurting badly, and I could feel it strongly.. but I don't have my canine teeth anymore. They were pulled out. For some reason, I immediately recalled the four quarter elements, but I'm not sure how that works.
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I had the oddest dream the other morning.
After going back to sleep at 5:45 AM, with the alarm set to wake me at 7AM, I dreamed that my friend slipped into the bed next to my sister (hotel room, yay), and had a notebook that would display everything I wrote in _my_ notebook. I wrote him a cute goodnight note, then helped him find it, then rolled over. He reached his hand over the bed (and my sister, even though his arm couldn't have been that long, yay physics-bending) and clasped mine. His hand wasn't shaped like his, it was too small and not knobbly enough, but it was behaving like it was attatched to him, so I had to accept it. I snuggled the arm and told him after a few moments that we'd soon have to get up, because we were leaving (true.) When the alarm woke the family up, he wasn't there.
The wierdest thing was, the dream FELT real, like I was half-awake the entire time. I was seeing the lighting/surroundings of the room in which we were staying, the sensations were all very real, and I was somewhat unnerved to find him not there when I got up, and somewhat surprised my sister wasn't complaining of being in the middle (she has her personal space... /pat)
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Kealdrea wants to try lucid dreaming. I'm willing to try it, but not with too much determination, because I can't help but think that I'll never be able to get the hang of it.
It would be good if I could realize that I'm dreaming whenever I see a wolf, since wolves still pop up in my dreams at least once a week. I can somewhat control my dreams, but only when I'm just waking up. A few days ago I dreamt that I was in a really annoying dungeon in Zelda with lots of redead. I was getting annoyed because they kept freezing me when I tried to get near them, and I couldn't remember how to swing my sword. (When I have trouble sleeping, I feel exhausted, so my dreams take on that kind of mood.)
So when I woke up, I thought, "That room was annoying. I should have just found the switch." So then I fell back to sleep a few minutes later, and I was in the same room in my dream, but I got away from the redead and found the switch that let me out of the room. I thought that it was the last room, but instead after all that work, I was just inside of the water temple, and I hate water temples, so I didn't even want to defeat the temple anymore. And when I woke up, I was annoyed about that again. So when I fell asleep a minute or two later, I warped to the boating course on Wind Waker, and that's when I woke up for the last time.
I've tried to manipulate that by thinking about something I want to dream about before I go back to sleep, but I can never stay focused.
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Razara wrote:
Kealdrea wants to try lucid dreaming. I'm willing to try it, but not with too much determination, because I can't help but think that I'll never be able to get the hang of it.
It would be good if I could realize that I'm dreaming whenever I see a wolf, since wolves still pop up in my dreams at least once a week.
Thats a really good start. If you start asking yourself "am I dreaming" in your waking life you'll eventually ask yourself when you're sleeping. Tieing the question to wolves is a great idea. Reading is difficult in dreams: it uses a different part of the brain so if you're struggling with the written word it can be a gooD tip off. Try the adjusting of light levels trick from "Waking Life" (an excellent movie about dream philosophy... WATCH IT) light switches dont work in dreams!
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I've had this dream 3 times, so I feel it may be time to share it.
In my dream, I'm at a Cafe, and Gio works there. She keeps throwing me dirty looks, and when I order a cup of tea, she poisons it. [Cantarella...?] Somehow, this is my signal to run away. Gio hops over the counter and starts running after me. I'm going at full speed down the street, and she's screaming that she's going to kill me. Though I never really see this happening, my dream mind knows that it's because I've been trying to break up Yasha and her...father. He's like a mix of Ruka and Touga's father in the movie. But they're dating. Yes, not just sleeping together, but dating. And I want Yasha's dad all to myself... I don't really know. I usually wake up as Gio starts to strangle me.
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dollface wrote:
GIOVANNA + ASPHYXIATION
I know this probably seemed really scary at the time, but I wish my dreams were more like this...
I recently had a dream where I was back in my old high school taking a class. I have that dream all the time, but in this dream, I was alone in one of the classrooms after the school had closed and I was making curry in a crockpot. It was taking a while and I was bored, so I wandered out into the hallway, where I encountered a teacher from my high school. I think maybe I had English from her in 10th grade? I don't even remember. Anyway, she asked me how things were going, and I told her that I had decided to drop my classes. She tried to talk me out of it, but then I smelled the curry burning and raced back into the classroom. The curry had boiled over and melted through the floor. Not in a straight line, either, it had melted at a 45 degree angle. So I looked down the hole and realized that it had melted through the floor below as well. And the next six or seven floors at least. There were only three stories in the building, though, and I was freaking out wondering how I would pay for the damages when I woke up. I spent the next few minutes freaking out some more, wondering how I would pay for it, then realized that it was a dream and relaxed. I can still see that shaft in my head. At the edges of where it had melted through each floor, the hole was molten-looking, but the interior of the hole was smooth and opalescent, like machined steel. Weird.
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dollface wrote:
I've had this dream 3 times, so I feel it may be time to share it.
In my dream, I'm at a Cafe, and Gio works there. She keeps throwing me dirty looks, and when I order a cup of tea, she poisons it. [Cantarella...?] Somehow, this is my signal to run away. Gio hops over the counter and starts running after me. I'm going at full speed down the street, and she's screaming that she's going to kill me. Though I never really see this happening, my dream mind knows that it's because I've been trying to break up Yasha and her...father. He's like a mix of Ruka and Touga's father in the movie. But they're dating. Yes, not just sleeping together, but dating. And I want Yasha's dad all to myself... I don't really know. I usually wake up as Gio starts to strangle me.
Wow... I think you'd be the last one I was trying to choke in that situation.
As for you, Stormcrow...it doesn't need to be a dream. Come down here, you kinky bastard.
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