This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#26 | Back to Top04-20-2013 05:47:26 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

Hmm, it never occurred to me to consider type 6 for Utena! Maybe because sixes are one of the thinking types. *cough* (5, 6 and 7 - thinking types)

And I agree Anthy is not a type 2. She's emotionally manipulative, but she's not self-deceptive, as unhealthy twos are described as. She's quite aware of her own selfishness.

At first I thought she might be a type four, but then she's not really that concerned with being authentic, or keeping in touch with her feelings (mostly showing emotion when it's useful). So now I'm like, what was I thinking? emot-confused

She totally does treat people like her guinea pigs. emot-rofl

Anyway, Chuchu: Type 7 (The Enthusiast)? emot-tongue They are the "direction of disintegration" for type fives, after all.

When it comes to the student council, Touga as a type 3 (The Achiever) seems obvious enough, but besides that I'm not sure.

(Can you believe I spent like an hour or so writing that? emot-gonk Effort-posts are hard.)

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#27 | Back to Top04-20-2013 09:31:46 AM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
Website

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

lurv wrote:

Anyway, Chuchu: Type 7 (The Enthusiast)? emot-tongue They are the "direction of disintegration" for type fives, after all.

ChuChu belongs to a Type?  Ummm, the fic possibilities . . .


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#28 | Back to Top04-20-2013 09:37:49 AM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

I agree about Touga being a type 3, and I see Juri as type 3 as well, Obsessed with the idea of success and being idolized and feared by others. She acts similarly to Touga in many situations, with a few key differences obviously emot-tongue

Miki I see as a type 1, The Reformer He is rather judgemental of others, as demonstrated through Kozue, though he doesn't like to show it, and he's obsessed with perfection. His hypocrisy in condemning the treatment of the rose bride and remaining in the student council is the sign of a highly unhealthy type 1

Saionji is type 8, The Challenger.  Saionji wants to be respected and appreciated by others, he isn't aloof like Touga or Juri though he may try to seem that way. He refuses to give in to social conventions and he won't allow himself to be controlled by others (or at least he'll struggle his damn hardest not to be) He's built up his ego to protect himself and he's distanced himself from others as a cost.

Nanami I also see as a type 8, she too has built up her ego and distanced herself from the world as the cost. She relates well to Saionji because they are actually quite similar.

It took a while for me to type Akio O.o at first I gravitated to 4, but I now think he's a 5 like Anthy, but has become more comfortable interacting with others, his curiosity outweighing contempt for humanity.  Guinea pig treatment of others reaches a more disturbing level, it has no empathy whatsoever, unlike Anthy who has pity that sometimes has traces of empathy, and no differentiation between people, he equally and gleefully plays Utena and Anthy as his puppets with nothing but amusement, whereas Anthy becomes increasingly hesitant to outright hurt Utena as she becomes closer to her, eventually hurting her brutally for the sake of trying to make her leave (Futile to a type 6) Akio is what Anthy could have become, he's gone further down the rabbit hole so to speak.

As for Utena being a thinking type, she does display a logical, practical way of dealing with things, despite being a very emotion driven person. For her emotion being her driving force she doesn't make too much of an effort to be in touch with her own emotions, instead she thinks about and is often confused by her own emotions.  It even plays into the "bundle of contradictions" of type 6. IMO obviously emot-tongue

In SKU, nobody is immune to a personalty analysis, even Chu-Chu emot-tongue

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#29 | Back to Top04-20-2013 10:20:02 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

BlackBeforeRed wrote:

In SKU, nobody is immune to a personalty analysis, even Chu-Chu emot-tongue

Indeed. Must type ALL the characters!

Well, okay. Maybe not all of them. Like idk what type the guidance counselor would- OH WAIT, maybe type 1? emot-tongue

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#30 | Back to Top04-20-2013 02:27:18 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
Website

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

lurv wrote:

Well, okay. Maybe not all of them. Like idk what type the guidance counselor would- OH WAIT, maybe type 1? emot-tongue

Can anyone idk what type Miki's Anthy-bewitched Dad would be?


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#31 | Back to Top04-20-2013 03:06:53 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

gorgeousshutin wrote:

lurv wrote:

Well, okay. Maybe not all of them. Like idk what type the guidance counselor would- OH WAIT, maybe type 1? emot-tongue

Can anyone idk what type Miki's Anthy-bewitched Dad would be?

Don't look at me. emot-redface

Hmm, did anyone ever figure out the MBTI for the black rose duelists?

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#32 | Back to Top04-22-2013 03:25:36 PM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

I type Wakaba as ENFJ, she's the most clear cut to me. She's people person and puts them before herself, which is her downfall emot-frown

Shiori I think of as ISFJ. She seems to have that similar SF way of operating that Utena has, and actually I think is a big player in why they can act similarly and get compared to each other (Cruel innocence? emot-tongue

Tsuwabuki I type as INFJ it is called The Protector emot-tongue

That's what I've got so far, the headcanons I had emot-tongue I'll probably try to figure out the other black rose duelists at some point emot-smile

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#33 | Back to Top04-30-2013 02:22:10 AM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

Small correction: the name of the test is the MBTI, or the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. It is perhaps the most well-known example of both a personality and typology assessment. It is based heavily upon the archetype theories proposed by Carl Jung, although the test itself was formulated by Isabel Briggs Myers as means of conveying personality differences to clients without usage of pathological labels. As such, in stands in direct contrast to many other famous assessments, such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Type Inventory.

I'm actually being trained in the implementation and scoring of the MBTI, so I just gotta geek out on the topic.:sherlock:Good fun! Glad it was brought up!

The responses I got from the online version pretty much matched other people's interpretations. I found a couple parts really interesting. For one, just from reading Miki and Kozue's respective descriptions, it becomes quickly obvious why they would have conflict: both are incredibly stubborn based on their personal beliefs, but their value systems and methodologies are nearly exact opposites.

Kozue: ESTP, the Doer or Promoter

This one was pretty difficult for me to figure out, as Kozue may seem like she's motivated mainly by emotion ("I'm always honest with my feelings"). However, her actions reflect differently. Like several of the other show masterminds, she proves that she's adept at (and motivated by) planning things out in advance and manipulating the desires of others.

ESTPs have an uncanny ability to perceive people's attitudes and motivations. They pick up on little cues which go completely unnoticed by most other types, such as facial expressions and stance. They're typically a couple of steps ahead of the person they're interacting with. ESTPs use this ability to get what they want out of a situation. Rules and laws are seen as guidelines for behavior, rather than mandates. If the ESTP has decided that something needs to be done, then their "do it and get on with it" attitude takes precendence over the rules. However, the ESTP tends to have their own strong belief in what's right and what's wrong, and will doggedly stick to their principles. The Rules of the Establishment may hold little value to the ESTP, but their own integrity mandates that they will not under any circumstances do something which they feel to be wrong.

ESTPs are spontaneous, active folks. Like the other SPs, ESTPs get great satisfaction from acting on their impulses. Activities involving great power, speed, thrill and risk are attractive to the ESTP. Chronic stifling of these impulses makes the ESTP feel "dead inside." Almost unconsciously the ESTP looks for nonverbal, nearly subliminal cues as to what makes her quarry "tick." Once she knows, she waits for just the right time to trump the unsuspecting victim's ace and glory in her conquest.

Charming, confident, and popular, Promoters delight their friends and investors with their endless supply of stories and jokes. At the same time, these smooth operators are usually something of a mystery to others. While they live in the moment and lend excitement - and unpredictability - to all their relationships, they rarely let anyone get really close to them.


Miki: INFJ, the Protector

Beneath the quiet exterior, INFJs hold deep convictions about the weightier matters of life. Those who are activists -- INFJs gravitate toward such a role -- are there for the cause, not for personal glory or political power.

Because the INFJ has such strong intuitive capabilities, they trust their own instincts above all else. This may result in an INFJ stubborness and tendency to ignore other people's opinions. They believe that they're right. On the other hand, INFJ is a perfectionist who doubts that they are living up to their full potential. INFJs are rarely at complete peace with themselves - there's always something else they should be doing to improve themselves and the world around them. They believe in constant growth, and don't often take time to revel in their accomplishments. They have strong value systems, and need to live their lives in accordance with what they feel is right. In deference to the Feeling aspect of their personalities, INFJs are in some ways gentle and easy going. Conversely, they have very high expectations of themselves, and frequently of their families. They don't believe in compromising their ideals.

INFJs, like their fellow intuitives, may be so absorbed in intuitive perceiving that they become oblivious to physical reality. The INFJ under stress may fall prey to various forms of immediate gratification.


Akio: INFJ, the Counselor

Interestingly, I got the same results with Akio as I did for Miki. However, the results only really made sense when interpreted with the Keirsey Temperament Scale, and even then only bits and pieces. I think it's best to see him as the "dark side" of the INFJ - the inverse of all of the positive qualities. Essentially, what happens when the Protector (Dios' near-inarguable archetype) goes wrong.

Counselors are both kind and positive in their handling of others; they are great listeners and seem naturally interested in helping people with their personal problems. Not usually visible leaders, Counselors prefer to work intensely with those close to them, especially on a one-to-one basis, quietly exerting their influence behind the scenes. They are highly private people, with an unusually rich, complicated inner life. Friends or colleagues who have known them for years may find sides emerging which come as a surprise. Not that Counselors are flighty or scattered; they value their integrity a great deal, but they have mysterious, intricately woven personalities which sometimes puzzle even them.

Blessed with vivid imaginations, Counselors are often seen as the most poetical of all the types, and in fact they use a lot of poetic imagery in their everyday language. Their great talent for language-both written and spoken-is usually directed toward communicating with people in a personalized way. Counselors are highly intuitive and can recognize another's emotions or intentions - good or evil - even before that person is aware of them. Counselors themselves can seldom tell how they came to read others' feelings so keenly. This extreme sensitivity to others could very well be the basis of the Counselor's remarkable ability to experience a whole array of psychic phenomena.


Touga: ENTJ, the Executive

"I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?"

ENTJs have a natural tendency to marshall and direct. This may be expressed with the charm and finesse of a world leader or with the insensitivity of a cult leader. The ENTJ requires little encouragement to make a plan. One ENTJ put it this way... "I make these little plans that really don't have any importance to anyone else, and then feel compelled to carry them out." While "compelled" may not describe ENTJs as a group, nevertheless the bent to plan creatively and to make those plans reality is a common theme for NJ types.

The ENTJ has a tremendous amount of personal power and presence which will work for them as a force towards achieving their goals. However, this personal power is also an agent of alienation and self-aggrandizement, which the ENTJ would do well to avoid.


Wakaba: ESFJ, the Caregiver

ESFJs are warm and energetic. They need approval from others to feel good about themselves. They are hurt by indifference and don't understand unkindness. They are very giving people, who get a lot of their personal satisfaction from the happiness of others. They want to be appreciated for who they are, and what they give. They're very sensitive to others, and freely give practical care. ESFJs are such caring individuals, that they sometimes have a hard time seeing or accepting a difficult truth about someone they care about.

Strong, contradictory forces consume the ESFJ. Their sense of right and wrong wrestles with an overwhelming rescuing, 'mothering' drive. This sometimes results in swift, immediate action taken upon a transgressor, followed by stern reprimand; ultimately, however, the prodigal is wrested from the gallows of their folly, just as the noose tightens and all hope is lost, by the very executioner!


Mikage: INTJ, the Scientist or Mastermind

INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.

Masterminds are not at all eager to take command, preferring to stay in the background until others demonstrate their inability to lead. Once they take charge, however, they are thoroughgoing pragmatists. Complex operations involve many steps or stages, one following another in a necessary progression, and Masterminds are naturally able to grasp how each one leads to the next, and to prepare alternatives for difficulties that are likely to arise any step of the way. Trying to anticipate every contingency, Masterminds never set off on their current project without a Plan A firmly in mind, but they are always prepared to switch to Plan B or C or D if need be.


Utena: ENFP, the Champion

Champions have a wide range and variety of emotions, and a great passion for novelty. They see life as an exciting drama, pregnant with possibilities for both good and evil, and they want to experience all the meaningful events and fascinating people in the world. The most outgoing of the Idealists, Champions often can't wait to tell others of their extraordinary experiences. Champions can be tireless in talking with others, like fountains that bubble and splash, spilling over their own words to get it all out. And usually this is not simple storytelling; Champions often speak (or write) in the hope of revealing some truth about human experience, or of motivating others with their powerful convictions. Their strong drive to speak out on issues and events, along with their boundless enthusiasm and natural talent with language, makes them the most vivacious and inspiring of all the types.

Fiercely individualistic, Champions strive toward a kind of personal authenticity, and this intention always to be themselves is usually quite attractive to others.

Last edited by Katzenklavier (04-30-2013 04:57:52 AM)


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#34 | Back to Top04-30-2013 03:52:38 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: MBIT in Utena!!

Katzenklavier wrote:

The responses I got from the online version pretty much matched other people's interpretations. I found a couple parts really interesting. For one, just from reading Miki and Kozue's respective descriptions, it becomes quickly obvious why they would have conflict: both are incredibly stubborn based on their personal beliefs, but their value systems and methodologies are nearly exact opposites.

Oh yeah, INFJ is the shadow of ESTP isn't it?

Damn, why is it so fun to figure out the types of fictional characters? emot-rolleyes

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