I honestly disliked both presidential candidates so I'm indifferent about who won. Who I'm concerned about is the Vice President elect. He crusaded for defunding Planned Parenthood,didn't he? Now, what some people don't know is that it's not just a place where abortions happen all day long. My mother got her prenatal care there because she was struggling financially when she was pregnant with me. What about poor mothers who want and planned their babies?

On the plus side, I am happy with our new District Attorney. Our old one locked a mentally ill rape victim in jail who did nothing wrong and it was a HUGE local news story.

I think someone brought up that working-class white voters voting for Trump were voting against their own interest, and thus couldn't be reasoned with, though going back I can't find the actual quote, so I'm sorry if I'm misrepresenting the context.  Thing is, you can't get people to vote for self-interest very much, they vote for values.  As morally bankrupt as Trump is, I can see how this would seem impossible, but yes a lot of people probably voted for him because they believed it was the right thing to do.  They did it altruistically.

Conservatives in America- represented by the Republican party- have done a really good job selling the idea that they have values.  There's social values, which are shared by the shitheads of the nation, but I think those are on the decline these days.  I really want to believe that.  You can rack up some votes there, but you're not going to win an election on an exclusively socially conservative platform these days, not on a national level.

And then there's fiscal conservatism, which is… it's a big lie, really.  It's a myth that the wealthy tell to the not-wealthy to keep them not-wealthy and that they tell to themselves to make themselves feel better about their wealth.  It's something people believe because they really want to, and it goes a little like this: if you're clever and you work hard, you can make it big.  But our economy isn't structured like that.  In the US, work doesn't make money.  Ingenuity only makes money if you are really, really lucky.  No, money makes money.

But if you believe that myth, then having money becomes a sign of virtue.  Those who have money should be rewarded, they should be entrusted with power, and they should be protected from anyone and anything that will try and take them down.  And those who don't?  Well, clearly they didn't work hard enough, and are therefore less deserving.  No point throwing away money on healthcare or services for them.  No fair giving them tax breaks if the wealthy don't get them.  And if you are one of them, it is only right that you accept your place, accept your failings, and keep affirming the myth.

But, because that last is a little too bitter to swallow on its own, there's a caveat: the average working-class American is virtuous.  Maybe not as virtuous as the really rich, but enough so that they should be getting by.  So if they're not, then it's because they're being cheated.  They're being cheated by China and their conspiracy of global warming, by illegal immigrants taking their jobs, (never mind that those jobs don't pay a living wage) by liberal elites, (who are not virtuous, but are clearly doing better, so they must be cheating) by corrupt politicians and their shady e-mails.  The fiscally conservative myth, because it is false, needs a scapegoat.

And that, I think is what people who support and supported Trump believe.  That's why they're willing to vote against self-interest.  Because they believe in an America where hard work is rewarded.

I've got to go to work now, but I might be back later to rant about how the Democrats fail utterly at countering that belief.

I woke up yesterday morning and had a panic attack the moment I opened my eyes. The past couple days have been absolutely horrifying for not just me, but most of my friends too because most of us fall somewhere along the lgbt+ spectrum and we are terrified of losing our rights and of our lives possibly getting a lot more unsafe. (and that is just one issue, I could go on and on about all the other forms of bigotry and hate looming over us but this one was the most talked about at the time.) The only good thing that has really come out of this is that we're all talking to each other more, and we've been coming together to comfort each other and stand up for what is right. The uncertainty of what could happen from here is petrifying, but being together with other people who care and keep each other safe has given me some hope.

I keep frickin' logging into this forum to revisit the 2008 election thread. Simpler times.  I completely forgot that there is a good 8 pages of that dedicated to the implications of abolishing the electoral college.

This is all a disaster. I think one of the NeverTrumpers like Lindsey Graham needs to sit down small town America and explain why legislature doesn't really have the power to bring back the steel mills an coal mines. My family has already blocked me on facebook or I'd do it.

Last edited by Hinotori (11-12-2016 05:10:10 PM)

I am so disheartened by the US presidential election and really need to get on filling out that refugee paperwork to move to Canada. My tax money has paid for a whole lot of gross and horrible things: widespread systematic racism, sexism, and international grand scale xenophobia; which I hate for a number of personal reasons, but lazily dealt with due to having to as an US citizen. But the impact of wide spread Nazism and having to live under it is just, it's sort of the last straw. As a a single  minority female person, history has indicated that this is not going to go well for me. Looking at the increase in hate crimes after Brexit https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 … gures-show and after the US election https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/conten … lc-report/.
     It's not that I don't somewhat understand/agree with the individuals disagreed with Hillary's politics and hated her/them, or in some part wanted to just supply the US political arena with the clown/s it somewhat deserves. I mean it's been such an circus/ sideshow and somewhat ineffective, depending on your position in society for so many years... one might figure that well I have to continue paying for this, BS so it should be somewhat amusing. It's been over a month and this is as calm and so called polite, as I can mange to comment on the situation. My deep and abiding core of schadenfreude, goes ok if this is what happens fine just let me get out of the the way and leave you to it. After all it can be amusing to watch sideshows/bonfires from a distance.
    I looked over some of the comments up thread and am commending everyone on their calm and fair points regarding Ringleader Trump. But it's depressing that this conversation, in the USA has to keep being had, and fought for, in regard to rights and individuals having an inherent right to getting treated fairly/respectfully by federal and state governments (due to funding them). I understand that it's a complex issue due to human beings personal basis and perception, that their will always be injustices somewhere, somehow. It's exhausting to see so little grand scale progress with a greater portion and sections of society respecting minorities. Sorry that this is long and rant filled.

Last edited by SexingTouga24/7/365 (12-02-2016 09:46:03 AM)

I mean, we do have a Republican House and Senate, so it's not like that'll be as much of an obstruction to Trump's shitty conservative policies as the divided, often right-leaning congressional bodies that Obama's had to deal with.  But on the other hand, a lot of Trump's proposals just… aren't terribly possible.  Like the wall.  That… you're gonna need a bigger budget for that, buddy.

And yes, the shitheads of the nation have taken this as a vote of confidence, and are feeling freer to act out than they have beforehand.  And, as ISIS has proved, stopping a handful of lone actors with an intent to harm is really hard, and inciting them to action, as such a vote of confidence has done, is easy.  That's shitty and I won't pretend it's not.

And I also won't pretend that living in a very liberal part of a very liberal state isn't a huge privilege.  A lot of the protections that Trump plans on eroding for the country are already enforced on a local level, here, and there's one or two that might be challenged by the national government, (such as the sanctuary city status for immigrants) but mostly there's a whole lot that's not going to change.  We'll still have legalized abortion, and anti-discrimination laws, and marriage equality.

So when I say that I'm committed to staying, to riding this out, and that this too will pass, I know that in ways, I'm doing that from a position of strength.  There are definitely reasons that this will be more survivable for me than it might be for others.  To which I also say: hey, it's way easier to move to Washington than it is to move to Canada.

Because one reason I'm not considering leaving the country is that… the lucky can leave.  Others can't.  And those who leave surrender the ability to influence incoming US policy.  It's time, I think, for those who know better to start doing better, to build support networks, to craft political infrastructure, and to take part in opposition to and criticism of wrong and dangerous legislation.  Not to mince words, but Trump really has shown tendencies that are downright fascist, and barring a miracle in the electoral college (worth a try but I don't hold much hope) his first term as president will define what the American public will be willing to go along with.

What it comes down to is, if worst comes to worst, I can do more here.  And if it doesn't… well, that's all right then, isn't it?

I have sworn by the Gods to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same. Significantly, I have also sworn to obey the orders of the President of the United States. Goddess help me.

Edit: corrected spelling of the name of the country

Last edited by Dreaded Claymore (12-13-2016 07:18:31 AM)

Current American politics: Fuck my life!

Something optimistic amidst flood of pessimism. Consequence of Brexit:



Cool. General tendency is good. Also, nice to see my country still being the most EUroenthusiastic within the EU.
More than that, calls for one foreign policy and army in the EU are finally being heard and it is getting real, winning support of prominent politicians in member countries. I'm afraid to have hope but yeah... looks like there is real chance for progress there.

Last edited by malna (01-29-2017 08:03:43 AM)

Yasha wrote:

Punching nazis who are just talking is not a good thing. Educating them and debating them is best. But damn, the punching is satisfying.

Yeah, I know I'm being a huge nitpick but I'm going to say it anyway - I don't really know about that point.

The fact of the matter is these Nazis, i.e. mostly young and entitled White men, cannot and simply will not properly visualise consequences to their actions.  I see the punch as something symbolic, as a very tangible consequence for espousing horrific violence upon violence. Remember, Richard is the guy who has made essays for a 'peaceful' genocide of Black Americans.

But t was a good punch wasn't it?

Last edited by SaigonAlice (02-17-2017 08:05:13 PM)

Yasha wrote:

The point of educating and debating is not just to try and sway the person you're talking to, which has a fairly limited chance of success anyway, but also to have a chance at making your points to everyone else, and possibly helping them to understand why white supremacy is a bullshit ideology for losers who have nothing else to be proud of.

I can understand that. We do need all the allies we can get. But I think we should consider who are usually at the forefront of these debates, namely Jewish and Black people. I mean, there's only so much dehumanising rhetoric you can take before you finally...snap. It's not exactly a fair discussion for Jewish or Black educators to have to begin with.

Also that was a pretty funny edit! Personally I prefer the gamecube edit:

Oh, ugh. I can only imagine what he said.

Maybe I should make that thread about Internet affecting politics. Like, that topic specifically is super interesting to me and it's sort of creeping into a bunch of threads

Using democracy against itself is definitely cynicism on what I understand to be a classic Russian level. But if your country has been a blur of abuse, propaganda, and total socioeconomic immobility, what mentality can you really have? There's a long documented history of how much BS Russians can take before they flip the desk, but it's kind of horrifying how much that is.

malna, do you feel like the hatred for its own sake is truly driven by fear, or is the sentiment more protectionist than concern for life? The US, when its head is only partly up its own ass, likes to sell that kind of fear in Europe being the unfortunate result of a country that was founded on a small number of cultural groups being terrified of losing that identity. AMERICA of course doesn't have this problem because it is a nation of immigrants! Although someone should really remind them of that. The US has always stood on its high horse about how great and multicultural it is, while behind the scenes being just as bad, or worse. It's only now that that xenophobic undercurrent is really out there for the world to see. I definitely feel like there's more justification in the fear for you guys. We have an extraordinary amount of control over who comes and goes, with no land access to the 'source' of the problem, and it's hard to really grasp how truly deeply these fears can be felt somewhere where the 'threat' frankly is more real.

I try to give people that are afraid the benefit of the doubt. If I believed, truly, that not bringing in refugees would solve the problem on a global scale, then I too would probably lock the door on them. But it doesn't work that way, and actually you get the opposite problem. You may have one fewer terrorist attack in your generation by refusing to help these people, but the next generation is going to be full of radicalized victims of your policy, with hatred burning up from years of thinking of you as an enemy and not as a friend. America has a long history of making a god damn mess in the ME, and a lot of this mess is frankly our fault, or at least in part. I honestly don't know as much about the European role in things, but that I'm aware it's not quite black ops CIA puppet government crap like we do. I feel like this is a turning point in Europe, and how this crisis is dealt with is going to define the problems or progress our grandchildren will have to deal with.

I know you want to not think about it. But remember, this is not normal. Don't let the bombardment slowly normalize views you already know are wrong. Bullshit fatigue is real, and it's the black plague of our generation.