This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top03-20-2013 05:54:53 AM

Rosesareawesome101
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Brisbane
Registered: 10-31-2012
Posts: 194

[Fan Rant]Juri second duel and how lazy it was

Ok before people rage on me I'll say this
I know that reuse footage/animation was a common thing in this anime but it does't excuse just how lazy and awful this duel was.

The first problem with this duel was that a good portion of animation use here was reuse from the first duel which is expected considering the show's animation budget but it bad for this one because most of the duel uses this footage almost all of the time even going as far as to reusing almost all of the animation from that duel; of course they to hide the stock footage with cars edited in like any other used of stock footage in the Akio/Apocalypse act Duels but the reuse animation here sticks out like a sore thumb because there is't any new animation for this duel except the ending.

The Second problem was that it was more focus on Juri's duel with Ruka then Utena which should of added a extra layer of tension but failed for the same reason as above; it was Utena first duel with Juri but with two different character and it destroy any tension or enjoyment you could of got out of the duel because(Again) of the lack of new animation or anything that properly distinct it and the duel itself aside from character resolution or story behind it; it shows just how limited Utena's role has been in episodes that focus on Juri character, she was at best a background character in these episode because she really does't have a place in these episode because they focus more on her and the characters that are related to her(Ruka and Shiori)

Because of these two problems; the Duel was really anticlimactic especially if you expect it to be on par with the Utena's first duel with her which had the best theme and animation in it respective story act, what we got is the laziest(and most Disappointing) duel in the entire Tv series on par with chigusa duel in the saturn game in terms of reuse animation.

The saving grace for this duel was the theme and how it ended but it make it worst because you expect the duel itself to be on-par but it everything wrong with the TV show; it takes the shows biggest flaw(Reuse animation/stock footage)& takes it to a new low and it leave a sour taste in my mouth for doing it.
Music-wise: 9/10 great theme that suit the context of situation around the Duel
Animation-wise: 4.5/10 the Duel was a complete mess from a animation perspective thank to it absurd amount of stock footage but the ending to it .
Story-wise: 6/10 it a tense duel in many ways consider the lead up to it but the reason why I did't give it 8/10 or above was because it relation to Utena was limited because she does't have a role in this conflict around shiori and juri so theres no way you could feel in involved in this duel because utena has no proper role in any of episodes the revolve around juri
As a whole: 5/10 my least favorite duel in the series no lies here.

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#2 | Back to Top04-11-2016 11:01:59 AM

VenomousPetal
New Student
Registered: 04-11-2016
Posts: 1

Re: [Fan Rant]Juri second duel and how lazy it was

Well that's the point. She is more than capable of defeating Utena, but she let her guard down gave up the second time due to her little conflict with Shiori. But this time, it was not out of depression but breaking free of her love for Shiori. The reason for all those Ruka moments was to show that Ruka is the one who made her see and realize that Shiori was doing shit and was pulling her down. When the locket broke, that symbolized her moment of realization. Thus she was able to finally break free.

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#3 | Back to Top04-11-2016 01:46:21 PM

MissMocha
Bettie Page Princess
From: Tallahassee, Fl
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 4632

Re: [Fan Rant]Juri second duel and how lazy it was

Some of it was cheaping out, but there's also some very good symbolic reasons. Here's a good starting spot. I have a special place in my heart for Juri and her duels -her episode is something of a turning point for the first season, and there's such a huge shift in perspective for her in the aftermath of the second duel.

Her duel with Ruka imparts a small, subconscious seed of introspection. The audience knows she represents what Utena could become without her princely ideals- bitter and lost- and that Utena represents what she could have been -a prince with the power of miracles. What the power of miracles actually is doesn't matter, of course, it's a mcguffin. In the SKU fandom, it's often held that the power of miracles represents what the duelist wants, but I prefer a slightly different interpretation: it represents the promise a rose bride can make to their victor. In Juri's case, it was once the love she wanted from Shiori, but is now the vindictive ability to prove her Rose Bride wrong (Juri is the biggest pile of contradictions and cognitive dissonance and I love her for it.)

I don't think the point of Ruka's duel -and intercutting it into Utena's - is tension. There's nothing narratively tense about it - the duel doesn't really impart information that WE the AUDIENCE don't already know, either explicitly or through inference. The point of Ruka's duel is to show the build up to the climax of Juri's character arch. It's also meant -imo- to show us Juri's growing understanding/revelation about her parallels with Utena and the comprehension of her denial of self.  She begins to realize what the audience has known all along -each time it cuts to the duel with Ruka it's a moment where his point of view crystallizes in her. We need to see her moving from the arrogant princeling she was in the first duel, past the resentment. She needs to see what Ruka sees -the difference being that Ruka knew it before the duel. Juri realizes it in the duel, in the duel's aftermath. She can no longer deny who she is or what Ruka knew, and she throws away her rose.

Sure, it's cheap, too. But symbolically, it hammers home every parallel about Utena and Juri that the series has made. It's shown each of them in their various stages of evolution, and in the end it shows the greater part of Juri's tragedy and her rejection of it -that she'll no longer be a tragic figure. It's said that at it's most basic, tragedy is showing the villain that they could have been a hero. Well, she may not be a villain or a hero, but she's come face to face with what she could have been . She's no longer a tragedy, she's a person who's freed herself from her past and is moving on.


The first time you looked at her curves you were hooked
And the glances you took, took hold of you and demanded that you stay
And sunk in their teeth, bit your heart and released
Such a charge that you need another touch, another taste, another fix

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#4 | Back to Top04-12-2016 11:39:51 PM

ShiningSanctum1
Touga Topper
Registered: 11-23-2012
Posts: 57

Re: [Fan Rant]Juri second duel and how lazy it was

Juri's fights are intentionally made short. She is more than capable of defeating Utena than any other council member since she's the fencing team captain and all, but she can never defeat someone like Utena because Utena's will is so much stronger than hers is. It's supposed to be ironic since Jury is someone so intimidating, skilled, and powerful yet is restrained by her mere heart. Ultimately it's her own angst that seals her defeat. She fought Utena to disprove the existence of miracles, but she gave up knowing that fighting for something like that was silly and inevitable. In other words, Shiori is not all there is to her world. She saw that Utena's nobility was real, and that fighting back wouldn't help her get better. Juri realized that she needed to deal with her own problems rather than blaming others for showing her false miracles. Note that she's also someone who's grown up working for her success, so she's someone who would definitely disrespect those who rely on fantasy. She's someone who's so caught up in her own world that she won't share it with anyone else. Due to that frustration, she ends up distracted in her fights and losing guard. This teaches you that even someone with great success and power have trouble dealing with internal emotional conflicts.

Last edited by ShiningSanctum1 (04-12-2016 11:41:01 PM)


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.

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