Miss Bluesky wrote:

(Yay for decent into lone alcoholism).

<off topic>Alcoholism is very outgoing event, it is not true that means seclusion. Trust me.</off topic>

Oh, come on, dear Soul! Do not insult Utena. It is much more than "religion". It is an idea - with many aspects and reflections.

I disagree. With religion is a huge problem - it is just an arrogant dogma that does not let you to create something own. Religion is full of barriers and borders.

Maybe You mean some kind of "faith", "conviction" or personal philosophy, but religion is more likely shackle. And - in my opinion - Utena means wings, not chains.

Melegant wrote:

I disagree. With religion is a huge problem - it is just an arrogant dogma that does not let you to create something own. Religion is full of barriers and borders.

Maybe You mean some kind of "faith", "conviction" or personal philosophy, but religion is more likely shackle. And - in my opinion - Utena means wings, not chains.

Religion is a set of beliefs.... it is the person who decides wether these beliefs amount to chains or wings... In Utena we may find ourselves coming to conclusions over what is evidence and what is not. It is up to the person to take what they believe about Utena and combine what they have found into their own philosophy about what Utena is....<--- and that is religion....

If this is Your theory of a religion, it is all right. However, I apperceive "religion" in more pejorative way. It is very subjective - as all on the world.

Be glad, I am glad too. <smile> But do not You think that debates can enrich everyone who participates in them?

I genereally see Utena as a piece of entertainment underpinned by a few messages. One of them seems to be that being a teen sucks. I guess another would be sex = power....

Well, it seems that Akio is a very sexualised being, and he's certainly the one pulling the strings, so that's one link right there. Also you have Touga, who seems to work along similar lines. Tswabuki, in his epsiodes, wishes to be a grown-up (and be powerful), and part of the way he tries to do this is through making the moves on his friend and watching a movie on romantic (sexual) interaction.
Also, in the movie at least, it's implied that having power of the Rose Bride also means having the right to use her sexually.
But I don't know, maybe that was just my view. :/

UTENA is to the traditional fairy tale what WATCHMEN is to the superhero genre.

purplepolecat wrote:

It's the Evangelion of shoujo.

The only two forums I frequent are this one and Evageeks, and I've noticed that those snobby Eva fans don't seem to want to touch Utena. I dunno how to explain it to them. Utena is even known (when it's known at ALL) over there for being the "Evangelion of shoujo" but its not considered as GOOD as Eva (which I totally don't agree with. They're both on the same level for me.) Probably because there's no Uber Anthy floating over the Academy bleeding from vagina hands or something. Sometimes being able to answer "What is Utena?" is just not good enough.

Setsuna wrote:

People look like they're listening, then roll their eyes and act like "No, Ghost in the Shell and Evangelion are the best."
There's other fucking good complicated anime out there! I mean I think its might be because it's shoujo, honestly. Because lots of people I know don't take Shoujo seriously. It's their loss though.

I totally understand what are you saying. I have seen enough of those people. They think SKU is lame because it lacks a futuristic atmosphere; and it doesn't have an emo teenage boy with sexual anxiety in a giant mecha complaining about daddy doesn't love him. They don't get SKU because its messages are subtle and not completely spelled out. Don't get me wrong, I think Ghost in the Shell and Eva are profound for exploring the human condition/existance. Nonetheless, I would avoid comparing SKU with Ghost in the Shell and Eva. To me, SKU it's the best, but other fans also think their beloved anime is the best. What's important is to keep an open mind, don't judge an anime by its genre.

Setsuna wrote:

But I know one thing, if I ever teach a college film class I will have a Utena 12 week project, because some of the directing and concepts are way beyond most American techniques. Ever.

That's a great idea, SKU could get more exposure in the west.

Well SKU doesn't have to have futuristic themes because this is the most psychological dealt with anime I've ever seen. If my mom wasn't a psychologist I'd be fucked try to figure out what was going on. I think that its one of those things like Watchmen where people don't try to even understand.
At least in college you're the one paying to learn, and so people would have to listen to get a good grade. I know for a fact that SKU has actually been brought up in a USC and Cal State psychology of film class, but just not studied extensively like I want to.
I actually think that class would need multiple teachers though, and the essays would be absolutely great, but a bitch to grade.

I'd say it's a show about a girl who wants to be a prince and lots of stuff happens. If anyone asks what that stuff is, I'll tell them just to watch the show because I don't want to spoil it for them.