This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top10-26-2012 05:13:15 PM

Overlord Morgus
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Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 314

I just realized that Evangelion is about...

psychological dependence on the military-industrial complex. I mean, the problem that everyone deals with is one that Gendou himself deliberately set out to create. Maybe Utena is about similar themes.

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#2 | Back to Top10-26-2012 07:34:28 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

I don't really agree. Gendo is ultimately the same as Shinji, in that he's unable to relate to other people beyond 'blind subservience' (to Yui) and 'utter bastardry' (everyone else). He rejected Shinji because he knew that he would never be a good father, and in the end he would rather retreat into the giant primordial womb rather than try to mend his relationships. If it weren't for the cast's psychoses, he'd have no reason to start his plan at all. So no, I don't think Gendo can be called responsible, and if that is the basis of your argument, I can't agree.

Also I'm going to link to this

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#3 | Back to Top10-26-2012 10:20:13 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Registered: 04-09-2007
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Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

Atropos wrote:

I don't really agree. Gendo is ultimately the same as Shinji, in that he's unable to relate to other people beyond 'blind subservience' (to Yui) and 'utter bastardry' (everyone else). He rejected Shinji because he knew that he would never be a good father, and in the end he would rather retreat into the giant primordial womb rather than try to mend his relationships. If it weren't for the cast's psychoses, he'd have no reason to start his plan at all. So no, I don't think Gendo can be called responsible, and if that is the basis of your argument, I can't agree.

Also I'm going to link to this

I disagree. But, then, I choose to see everything Gendou's doing, including putting Shinji in literally the safest place on the planet until Instrumentality, as Gendou actually doing good in his bastardy way. He doesn't know how to be intimate with people, but he knows how to save them, and when he gets bit in half, well, he knows he's a bastard. That's not external damnation, that's internal.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#4 | Back to Top11-18-2012 07:01:57 PM

Overlord Morgus
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Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 314

Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

Eva, Gundam, and Utena all have one thing in common: the use of womb imagery. Eva has LCL, which is something that's given to newborn children whose lungs are too underdeveloped to breathe air. Gundam has that one scene where Amuro sees Matilda for the last time from within the Gundam, and it's like an adoptive mother looking at her baby in his incubator. Then there are the coffins in Utena.

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#5 | Back to Top11-18-2012 07:46:22 PM

TheOnlyFlorence
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Registered: 09-16-2012
Posts: 454

Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

Overlord Morgus wrote:

Eva, Gundam, and Utena all have one thing in common: the use of womb imagery. Eva has LCL, which is something that's given to newborn children whose lungs are too underdeveloped to breathe air. Gundam has that one scene where Amuro sees Matilda for the last time from within the Gundam, and it's like an adoptive mother looking at her baby in his incubator. Then there are the coffins in Utena.

Not to mention the fetal position of Utena and Anthy in the intro. Minor, but still more support.

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#6 | Back to Top11-18-2012 09:33:26 PM

Overlord Morgus
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Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 314

Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

You could also see Eva as a metaphor for the decline of Japan's "cradle to the grave" corporate system that existed throughout the 80's. Shinji's a perfect citizen of just that system: docile, self-effacing, unambitious and yet dedicated to his job, with a generalized notion of obedience to social norms but no attachments to anyone in particular. The moral that they basically shove in everybody's face is that people should learn to accept the world outside the system rather than isolate themselves, which the EVAs and the Geofront and the interstitial shots of empty train stations are a metaphor for. You could almost say it's agitating for more openness to the international community, since almost every major anime since the mid 90's seems seems to support immigration in principle. Ghost in the Shell, Eureka 7, Ergo Proxy, Tokyo Godfathers, Black Lagoon, there are many more.

Last edited by Overlord Morgus (11-18-2012 10:10:01 PM)

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#7 | Back to Top11-19-2012 05:26:02 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

Overlord Morgus wrote:

The moral that they basically shove in everybody's face is that people should learn to accept the world outside the system rather than isolate themselves

I find this strange, since I read Eva's moral as "The perceptions of other people don't matter; you define yourself."

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#8 | Back to Top11-19-2012 06:47:27 PM

ArthurianRoseKnight
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Registered: 11-17-2012
Posts: 76
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Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

Overlord Morgus wrote:

The moral that they basically shove in everybody's face is that people should learn to accept the world outside the system rather than isolate themselves,

Evangelion isn't the only anime that spreads this message like cancer. There's another giant robot whose name I refuse to utter or type due to this.

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#9 | Back to Top11-19-2012 08:14:46 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: I just realized that Evangelion is about...

I still have no idea how that's the moral you can get from the series. Especially considering it contradicts what you said in the first fucking post.

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