This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top07-17-2013 07:41:59 PM

zevrem
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Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

There are a lot of concepts associated with Nietzsche's ideas of master morality and slave morality, but the ones that stick out to me are as follows:

Master morality is the morality of the dominant. Its morality is based on the admiration of great, "noble" deeds, and it does not take enemies seriously, vanquishing them quickly and then forgetting about them. Slave morality, on the other hand, is the morality of the weak-minded. It is based on the desire for that which is helpful to itself, that is, it is utilitarian, and because it is so desperate for utility, it does not admire great deeds that are not immediately beneficial. And above all, it seeks to take revenge through subtle subversion of the master morality instead of seeking a more immediate and final form of revenge. Because the slaves are more plentiful than the masters, the society as a whole ends up adopting the psychology of the slaves.

I think this is very relevant to Dios' transformation into Akio. In the shadow puppet show's first scene, Dios vanquishes a Godzilla, while in the second scene, he dates a teenage girl whose boyfriend stood her up on Christmas. My interpretation of this dichotomy is that Dios originally was known for performing great actions, but later was relied on to give pleasure and solace to the masses in the most mundane, laughable way possible. He begins as a symbol of everything that is great, but then gets bogged down by utilitarianism and is exploited rather than admired.

Akio as chairman of Ohtori Academy is the embodiment of slave morality. He never uses force, and indeed, he refuses to even identify the kids of Ohtori as his enemies. Instead, he subtly corrupts people's relationships and ideals and turns them against each other while refusing to take them down once and for all. All he has is his abstract, wholly psychological revenge. This is well-illustrated in the final scene, when the swords of hatred are summoned. They don't attack him; instead, they form a pyramid with him at its apex.


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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#2 | Back to Top07-18-2013 07:01:32 PM

Yasha
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

I agree; Akio is the embodiment of hardcore pornography. cool


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#3 | Back to Top07-18-2013 07:13:49 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Why aren't there links? The title led me to believe there'd be links. A cache of some kind.

Yasha wrote:

Akio is the embodiment of hardcore pornography.

This makes sense to me and I approve. (We don't have an applause emoticon. Pretend this is an applause emoticon.)


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#4 | Back to Top07-18-2013 07:20:24 PM

Atropos
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From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

I think the problem with Nieztsche is that his 'state of nature' simply never existed. It's a problem for any philosopher who uses the term and doesn't have a thorough grounding in anthropology and archaeology.

^ ^ In my planned SKU-based Unknown Armies game, Touga will be a Pornomancer who gains magical power by imitating Akio's sex acts. (As for why I mentioned this, in normal UA pornomancers gain power by imitating the actions of a porn star-turned-deity...)

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#5 | Back to Top07-18-2013 07:20:55 PM

Yasha
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

I should have used http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/emotes/emot-rimshot.gif


Oh well, next time.


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#6 | Back to Top07-18-2013 08:32:39 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

zevrem wrote:

Akio as chairman of Ohtori Academy is the embodiment of hardcore pornography.

PICS PLZ etc-saiowank


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#7 | Back to Top07-19-2013 09:51:25 AM

zevrem
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

The word substitution works up to a point, and that point is this:

Akio as chairman of Ohtori Academy is the embodiment of hardcore pornography. He never uses force

I could forgive you screwing up my posts, but I could never forgive the propagation of such a terrible life.


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#8 | Back to Top07-19-2013 12:01:13 PM

zevrem
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

*terrible lie


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#9 | Back to Top07-19-2013 12:23:29 PM

dlaire
A Whole Orange
From: Poland
Registered: 04-08-2007
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

I believe that's a quote. school-sherlock

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#10 | Back to Top07-19-2013 12:28:20 PM

zevrem
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

How could the embodiment of hardcore pornography NOT use force?


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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#11 | Back to Top07-19-2013 12:37:28 PM

dlaire
A Whole Orange
From: Poland
Registered: 04-08-2007
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

You should know the answer because YOU wrote it.

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#12 | Back to Top07-19-2013 12:41:59 PM

Yasha
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Well, I may have had something to do with all that. emot-redface


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#13 | Back to Top07-19-2013 01:39:28 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

It was a change that keeps on giving.

I know

zevrem wrote:

I could never forgive the propagation of such a terrible life.

is a typo, but it bears considering.

And

zevrem wrote:

Akio as chairman of Ohtori Academy is the embodiment of hardcore pornography

zevrem wrote:

How could the embodiment of hardcore pornography NOT use force?

makes me laugh harder knowing it was changed.

And that "How" bears consideration, too. Both in terms of porn and in terms of Akio.

I can't see how Akio doesn't use force, if not physical (though he is physically restraining the characters and imprisoning them), then through social and emotional coercion. But porn doesn't have to be about coercion, or that kind of force or dominance, as often as it does veer in those directions.


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#14 | Back to Top07-19-2013 03:20:45 PM

zevrem
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Actually, that second post wasn't modified.


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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#15 | Back to Top07-19-2013 05:04:03 PM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

He's right, guys. All I've done is filter a couple certain phrases-- zevrem's responsible for everything else after that. emot-keke

Edit: Technically speaking, the term "hardcore" just means that there's visible penetration. I'm not sure Akio has to stoop quite so low as to use force whenever he wants to dip his wick, ifyaknowhatimean.

Last edited by Yasha (07-19-2013 05:14:46 PM)


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#16 | Back to Top07-20-2013 03:42:58 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

These conversations remind me of the time a former friend of mine got really obsessed with certain books, so I think I'll just leave this here.

ANTHY SHRUGGED, CHAPTER VII: "THIS IS HIMEMIYA ANTHY SPEAKING"

The doorbell was ringing like an alarm, In a long, demanding scream, broken by the impatient stabs of someone's frantic finger.

Leaping out of bed, Utena noticed the cold, pale sunlight of late morning and a clock on a distant spire marking the hour of ten.

The white face ungroomed by panic, that confronted her when she threw the door open, was Nanami's.

"She's gone!" she cried.

"Who?"

"Himemiya Anthy! She's gone, quit, vanished, disappeared!"

It was strange—she thought, during the day that followed, looking at the students around her—that catastrophe had made them aware of Himemiya Anthy with an intensity that her achievements had not aroused, as if the paths of their consciousness were open to disaster, but not to value.

Some spoke of her in shrill curses—others whispered, with a look of guilt and terror, as if a nameless retribution were now to descend upon them—some tried, with hysterical evasiveness, to act as if nothing had happened.

The Shadow Girls, like puppets on tangled strings, were shouting with the same belligerence and on the same dates: "It is social treason to ascribe too much importance to Himemiya Anthy's desertion and to undermine public morale by the old-fashioned belief that an individual can be of any significance to Ohtori Academy." "It is social treason to spread rumors about the disappearance of Himemiya Anthy. Ms. Himemiya has not disappeared, she is in her greenhouse, watering her roses, as usual, and there has been no trouble at the Chairman's tower, except a minor disturbance, a private scuffle among some students." "It is social treason to cast an unpatriotic light upon the tragic loss of Himemiya Anthy. Ms. Himemiya has not deserted, she was killed in an automobile accident on her way to school, and her grief-stricken family has insisted on a private
funeral."

Rumors went spreading through the school in whispers of cynical terror—yet students listened to the teachers and acted as if they believed what they heard, each competing with the others on who would keep most blindly silent, each pretending that they did not know what they knew, each striving to believe that the unnamed was the unreal.

"Listen to Chairman Ohtori's report on the Academy crisis after eighth period!"

It was the first acknowledgment of the unacknowledged. The teachers had explained it: "To counteract the fears and rumors spread by the enemies of the people, Chairman Ohtori will address the Academy after the end of classes today and will give us a full report on the state of the Academy in this solemn moment of crisis. Mr. Ohtori will put an end to those sinister forces whose purpose is to keep us in terror and despair. He will bring light into the darkness of the world and will show us the way out of our tragic problems—a stern way, as befits the gravity of this hour, but a way of glory, as granted by the rebirth of light."

That afternoon, Nanami told Utena that the Chairman wished to meet her for a conference before the broadcast.

"Where is it to be held?"

"At the Chairman's tower."

"He doesn't expect me to speak on the air in support of his policies, does he?"

"Don't worry, they wouldn't let you near a microphone! They just want to hear your opinion, and you can't refuse, not in a national emergency, not when it's an invitation from Mr. Ohtori in person!" She spoke impatiently, avoiding Utena's eyes.

She came to the tower balcony with Nanami at one side of her and her assistant Tsuwabuki as a bodyguard at the other.

The Student Council stood in a nervous cluster, with the look of a remnant sale in a bankrupt store: she saw Kiryuu Touga, Arisugawa Juri, Kaoru Miki and a seedy handful of hangers-on.

But the figure that gave her an instant's shock was Ohtori Akio. She had not known that a face could age so greatly within the brief space of one day: the look of seductive charm, of silent power was gone, and nothing remained of the face except the lines of contemptuous bitterness. He stood alone, apart from the others, and she saw the moment when his eyes saw her enter; he looked like a man in a whorehouse who had accepted the nature of his surroundings until suddenly caught there by his wife: it was a look of guilt in the process of becoming hatred. Then she saw Ohtori Akio the Chairman turn away as if he had not seen her—as if his refusal to see could wipe a fact out of existence.

Utena made a step forward. "I will not take part in this program," she said evenly, addressing Akio.

"You won't?" he asked blankly, with the kind of look he would have worn if one of the rose vases had suddenly refused to perform its part.

"Tenjou-sempai, for Christ's sake!" cried Nanami in panic.

"What's the matter with her?" asked Akio.

"But, Miss Tenjou! Why?" cried Miki.

"You all know why," she said to the faces around her. "You should have known better."

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#17 | Back to Top07-20-2013 03:48:05 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

The bell rang out, marking the end of the school day.

"Ladies and gentlemen," said a voice that came from the PA system—"Mr. Ohtori will not speak to you tonight. His time is up. I have taken it over. You were to hear a report on the Academy crisis. That is what you are going to hear."

"For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is Himemiya Anthy? This is Himemiya Anthy speaking. I am the woman who loves her life. I am the woman who does not sacrifice her love or her values. I am the woman who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are perishing—you who dread knowledge—I am the woman who will now tell you."

"Your ideal had an implacable enemy, which your code of morality was designed to destroy. I have withdrawn that enemy. I have taken it out of your way and out of your reach. I have removed the source of all those evils you were sacrificing one by one. I have ended your battle. I have stopped your motor. I have deprived your world of my mind."

"I have granted you everything you demanded of me, I who have always been the giver, but have only now understood it. I have no demands to present to you, no terms to bargain about, no compromise to reach. You have nothing to offer me. I do not need you."

"Are you now crying: No, this was not what you wanted? A mindless world of sexually frustrated adolescents was not your goal? You did not want me to leave you? You moral cannibals, I know that you've always known what it was that you wanted. But your game is up, because now I know it, too."


The sounds of the crowd were beyond the stage of cries, but above them Anthy continued.

"We are on strike against self-immolation. We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties..."

The Student Countil members cowered, clutching their ears.

"You damned man, you damned existence, you damned this earth, but never dared to question your code..."

Miki was beating his head against the floor.

"Now choose to perish or to learn that the anti-mind is the anti-life..."

Akio, curled into a fetal position, rocked silently in a corner of the room.

"Man has to be man—by choice; he has to hold his life as a value—by choice; he has to learn to sustain it—by choice..."

Below, one of the large windows to a science classroom shattered as a group of middle school students leapt through it, unwilling to listen further. Utena looked away a moment before their bodies impacted the pavement six stories below.

"Just as the parasites around me were proclaiming their helpless dependence on my mind and were expecting me voluntarily to accept a slavery they had no power to enforce, just as they were counting on my self-immolation to provide them with the means of their plan..."

Anthy went on without missing a beat, drooling paragraph after paragraph of intellectual masturbation into whatever secret microphone she stood behind.

"If nothing exists, there can be no consciousness: a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms. A consciousness conscious of nothing but itself is a contradiction in terms: before it could identify itself as consciousness, it had to be conscious of something. If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness."

Nothing. No consciousness. That was the answer, Utena realized. She stepped into the elevator and pressed the "UP" button.

"It is the act of unfocusing your mind and inducing an inner fog to escape the responsibility of judgment—on the unstated premise that a thing will not exist if only you refuse to identify it, that A will not be A so long as you do not pronounce the verdict 'It is.'"

What was I struggling for, Himemiya? To free you? To make you happy? I guess you're free now, and I can't know if you're truly happy, but this... but this...

The elevator opened again and Utena slowly walked up to one of the tower's great windows, overlooking an Ohtori campus that now resembled a scene from Hell. The building that housed the cooking and home economics classrooms was a raging inferno, someone having opened and ignited the gas main. Three other buildings were burning as well, and a number of rooftops now hosted mobs of students queueing up to jump to their deaths. The blood of the fallen flowed between cobblestones that had been immaculate mere hours before.

"It does not matter who then becomes the profiteer on his renounced glory and tormented soul, a mystic God with some incomprehensible design or any passer-by whose rotting sores are held as some inexplicable claim upon him—it does not matter, the good is not for him to understand, his duty is to crawl through years of penance, atoning for the guilt of his existence to any stray collector of unintelligible debts, his only concept of a value is a zero: the good is that which is non-man."

Anthy's mind had gone, trapped in an inescapable, self-justifying logical loop. The Academy was in its death throes just as it had won its final and most absolute victory. Of its ultimate victim there was nothing left to destroy; the light Utena had seen in Anthy from the moment they met had been snuffed forever.

"Take a look around you, you savages who stutter that ideas are created by men's means of production, that a machine is not the product of human thought, but a mystical power that produces human thinking."

Utena could bear neither to listen nor to look on the scene below, so she turned around, gazing glassy-eyed at the planetarium. So many bittersweet memories, but none that made a difference anymore.

"No matter what dishonorable compromise you've made with your impracticable creed, no matter what miserable balance, half-cynicism, half-superstition, you now manage to maintain, you still preserve the root, the lethal tenet: the belief that the moral and the practical are opposites. Since childhood, you have been running from the terror of a choice you have never dared fully to identify..."

Utena stretched out her arms.

"Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is a human life. Whether you live or die is an absolute. Whether you have a piece of bread or not, is an absolute. Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute."

She closed her eyes, hooked one heel over the windowsill and fell backward. A part of her wondered if someone—a price on a white horse, perhaps—might be there to catch her, but the voice of hope inside her, so strong before, was reduced to a faint whisper by Himemiya's drone.

"You, who are half-rational, half-coward, have been playing a con game with reality, but the victim you have conned is yourself. When men reduce their virtues to the approximate, then evil acquires the force of an absolute, when loyalty to an unyielding purpose is dropped by the virtuous, it's picked up by scoundrels—and you get the indecent spectacle of a cringing, bargaining, traitorous good and a self-righteously uncompromising evil. As you surrendered to the mystics of muscle when they told you that ignorance consists of claiming knowledge, so now you surrender to them when they shriek that immorality consists of pronouncing moral judgment. When they yell that it is selfish to be certain that you are right, you hasten to assure them that you're certain of nothing."

She saw the blue sky and the white tower, its apex rushing away from her with shocking speed.

"You blank it out and cling to your hypocrisy of 'faith' in order to blank out the knowledge that the looters have a stranglehold upon you, which consists of your moral code—that the looters are the final and consistent practitioners of the morality you're half-obeying, half-evading—that they practice it the only way it can be practiced: by turning the earth into a sacrificial furnace—that your morality forbids you to oppose them in the only way they can be opposed: by refusing to become a sacrificial animal and proudly asserting your right to exist—that in order to fight them to the finish and with full rectitude, it is your morality that you have to reject..."

The ground rushed up to meet her and all was then mercifully silent.

THE END

Last edited by Davine Lu Linvega (07-20-2013 06:22:35 PM)

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#18 | Back to Top07-20-2013 05:20:16 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Good casting all around! emot-biggrin  And a more realistic response to the big monologue than what Rand wrote.  You get poptart x12 and five Anonymous masks.

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#19 | Back to Top07-21-2013 02:19:09 AM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

I think this epic thread needs a soundtrack!

Flash not detected

[Yes, I added a new feature. There's a button for it in the reply screen.]


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#20 | Back to Top07-21-2013 03:43:58 PM

Giovanna
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Davine Lu Linvega wrote:

Akio, curled into a fetal position, rocked silently in a corner of the room.

Not gonna lie, I've tried like three times in my life to read that book, and that's been the result every single time. I never even make it to the speech.

I must be allergic to it.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#21 | Back to Top07-21-2013 04:36:05 PM

RhythmFusion
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Registered: 03-18-2010
Posts: 133

Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

What did I just read? emot-confused


"But screw your courage to the sticking place, and we'll not fail." ~ Lady Macbeth; Macbeth - Act One, Scene 7
"Crying is such hypocrisy. How can happiness cause the same reaction as sadness? Does pleasure share the same edge of the blade of life as pain?" - What His Crimson Eyes Believe in: Ch. 2

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#22 | Back to Top07-21-2013 04:41:56 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

RhythmFusion wrote:

What did I just read? emot-confused

Davine's marvelous fic is a (highly) abridged rip of a famous scene from Atlas Shrugged, one of Ayn Rand's enormous books about how rich people are better than poor people and anyone who supports taxation is a parasite.  Anthy takes the role of John Galt, the book's mysteeeerious stealth protagonist, who believes that rich capitalists should form their own nation where there is no government and the strong survive and the weak starve to death.  Utena is playing Dagny Taggart, Ayn Rand's self-insert character, a railroad magnate who at first is slightly conflicted about letting poor people die on the streets but realizes as the book goes on that poor people deserve to die on the streets.  And Akio plays Mr. Thompson, the President of the United States, who is to Atlas Shrugged what Dr. Blight is to Captain Planet -- he is a communist dictator who regulates and nationalizes industries because it gives him a boner.

The scene is famous for John Galt's endless and tedious monologue over the radio, here delivered by Anthy, and the rest of the cast reacts the way many readers do. emot-rolleyes

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#23 | Back to Top07-21-2013 04:53:25 PM

Touga
Seitokaicho
From: Ohtori Academy
Registered: 10-14-2006
Posts: 21

Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

After reading this topic, it suddenly becomes clear to me why Akio insisted on a camera. I do hope he didn't undercharge; I am a fine specimen of manhood. emot-wink

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#24 | Back to Top07-21-2013 05:51:38 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Touga wrote:

After reading this topic, it suddenly becomes clear to me why Akio insisted on a camera. I do hope he didn't undercharge; I am a fine specimen of manhood. emot-wink

They're back! Yaaaaaaaay! etc-love

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#25 | Back to Top07-21-2013 06:47:15 PM

Touga
Seitokaicho
From: Ohtori Academy
Registered: 10-14-2006
Posts: 21

Re: Akio/Dios and Master Morality/Slave Morality

Atropos wrote:

They're back! Yaaaaaaaay! etc-love

Darling, I know you missed me because my smooth voice is a perfect antidote to the horrible noise posted above. By all means, keep me at the forefront of your mind so your imagination can supply the content of those pictures. school-devil

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