In the Rose Garden / Heavens! @_@

Catie · Back to Top

After peeling through certain threads, I've come to see that the members are more than comfortable with leisurely analysis, and being one to pick things apart in earnest, I thought I might offer what meager conclusions I've (more or less) stumbled upon while viewing the series again most recently.

The thing is, I've noticed some extremely startling similarities between Utena and a story even more beloved by me.

SPOILERS -- READ ON AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION!!!!!!!!!!

There's this thing. It's called Pokemon. Ever heard of it? emot-wink If not, hey, no sweat, I'll fill you in! "Pokemon," short for "pocket monsters," is an animated series that follows a ten-year-old boy named Ash, its hero, on his journey to become a "pokemon master."

What is a pokemon master? One who masters many pocket monsters, or "pokemon," if you will. Essentially, one who is able to catch and train a good variety of pokemon so that they may perform well in official, nationally-recognized competitions, ensuring celebrity status and a fashionable collection of badges for said master.

Sounds pretty grim, doesn't it? Not so. Ash sets a noble precedent for pokemon masters everywhere as he manages to actually befriend every pokemon he catches. Only when he has their absolute trust does he send them into the thick of battle for his own gain and, every now and again, shameless amusement.

While the animated series has achieved notable fame, perhaps the game spin-offs have the greater following. And while the games follow a similar thread, plot has largely been abandoned in favor of optimum interactivity. If you, like me, are never one to turn down an opportunity to live vicariously through an arrogant ten-year-old or to lord your power over creatures roughly cat-sized, then I definitely recommend checking these games out. Also PM me and when I get a DS we can play around or something emot-keke

But to draw the parallels that inspired this post, I am forced to recall a location specific to the earliest games. This memorable place has no definite flag and is known to most players as "that haunted tower in Lavender Town." What's significant about the tower, as an event, is that Ash's business there can be perceived to have a foundation in human morals, whereas his "missions" otherwise are generally fairly shallow. As Ash progresses through and up the tower he is beset by Haunters, ghost pokemon. At the top awaits the lonely ghost of a Marowak, rumored to have impossible power, a pokemon that can be exorcised but never captured. I suppose this was the hand that flipped the first switch, illuminating the first bulb in my brain.

"What more," I asked myself, "is the tower but another dueling forest? What are Haunters but duelists? What is Ash but the very first Revolutionary Boy? And what is Dios but a peevish Marowak and vice versa? emot-aaa "

Kindly CHEW ON THAT.

Last edited by Catie (09-19-2007 01:12:07 AM)

Kashira · Back to Top

...This is just because Rachael Lillis is in the Utena dub isn't it? school-eng101

That said there's no reason that they couldn't use similar themes... But I think that Lavender Town was just a way to extend the game. "phew at the top ... oops need a Sylph Scope!"

Hiraku · Back to Top

Hey! You got dead pokemon ghosts, unrest spirits, possessed pokemon trainers all in one package! It's like the BR Arc of Utena!

NajiMinkin · Back to Top

Catie, I love you.

Drukqs · Back to Top

I lol'd. school-devil

Now we need an Evangelion-My Neighbor Totoro parallels thread and my life is complete.

ShatteredMirror · Back to Top

Well in episode 28 of the first season of the TV show, Jesse and James dress up as Oscar and Marie Antoinette as they looked in Rose of Versailles, so it's sort of a sideways Utena reference...

xxkiriyamaxx · Back to Top

Drukqs wrote:
I lol'd.

Now we need an Evangelion-My Neighbor Totoro parallels thread and my life is complete.

Well, if you look closely to Evangelion and Utena, there might be paralelism. And it's not sarcasm. Really.
SPOILERS FOR EVANGELION, SO DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE SERIES (But I guess that if you haven't... YOU REALLY HAVEN'T?? FOR DIOS'S SAKE HAVE YOU'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK????!!!)

Well, Rei Ayanami was the primordial part of the Human Instumentalization Project. This project was lead by Gendo Ikari. Gendo is a possesive character, focused only on the goal and he will use everything and everyone for his own private agenda. Heck! He even played with the feelings of a couple of girls to get his point done!!

Doesn't that look like Akio?? Gendo even changed his last name (just like Akio) to "inherit" NERV just like Akio did with Kanae.

And well, Rei Ayanami is also slow paced, submissive and straight character that does not care for others, just for Gendo Ikari. Rei is also very similar to Anthy, in how they talk and how they move. Just like Akio was the one using Anthy for his own agenda, Gendo is using Ayanami for his own agenda.

If we look closely, in THE END OF EVANGELION, Rei doesn't follow his orders and then, the whole Instrumentalization project starts. Just like the ending of Utena, where, Anthy says goodbye to Akio and then her "revolution" starts.

And also, by the end of the movie, both of the main characters Shinji and Utena develop feelings for their own "partners". Shinji develops a conection with Rei which is cutted off by the attack of one angel while Utena also loves Anthy and looks to help her out.

Also, both main characters have "seen" their own "partners" on the past. Since Rei is the clone of Yui, -Shinji's Mom-, he feels connected to her, and well...he has seen her (I mean, she's the clone of her own MOM!!). In SKU, Utena saw Anthy as a witch on the past, and that's what made her took the radical choice to become a prince.

See... there is a conection!! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!!!!
hahaha!

Kashira · Back to Top

xxkiriyamaxx wrote:
Doesn't that look like Akio?? Gendo even changed his last name (just like Akio) to "inherit" NERV just like Akio did with Kanae.

Well, that's a tradition in Japan. When two people get married they use the name of the most prestigious family. It's so much a part of Japanese culture that I doubt that they meant much by it, unless it symbolises Gendo reinventing himself. ...and if your name was Rokubungi wouldn't you want to change it?

Lightice · Back to Top

Kashira wrote:
I doubt that they meant much by it, unless it symbolises Gendo reinventing himself.

It wouldn't have been included in the story if it didn't carry some signifigance, no matter how common it's in real life. At the very least it shows how Gendo has no qualms about getting rid of anything that slows him down, be it a name without prestige or his own son.

Also, while it's not directly mentioned in the series, Yui was the daughter of a deceased member of SEELE, which gave her contacts in the organization that Gendo sought. In that sense Gendo's approach was very much like Akio's. Though unlike Akio, Gendo seemed to have loved Yui to the point of obsession, allowing it to control all his actions since Yui's death.

Kashira · Back to Top

Lightice wrote:
It wouldn't have been included in the story if it didn't carry some signifigance, no matter how common it's in real life. At the very least it shows how Gendo has no qualms about getting rid of anything that slows him down, be it a name without prestige or his own son.

Also, while it's not directly mentioned in the series, Yui was the daughter of a deceased member of SEELE, which gave her contacts in the organization that Gendo sought. In that sense Gendo's approach was very much like Akio's. Though unlike Akio, Gendo seemed to have loved Yui to the point of obsession, allowing it to control all his actions since Yui's death.

Ohhhh don't make me go NGE geek, please! I'm trying to be good! school-devil

It is more likely that the they were both working together towards a plan that she concocted to counter Seele. Gendo went along with her because she loved him (as we see with Shinji love or lack there of can cause some extreme responses).

FUYUTSUKI:
You're a rather coarse man, to get into a drunken brawl.

IKARI:
There was no time to talk. They just picked a fight with me. I'm not very good at being liked, but I am used to being treated coldly.

She could have been the first person to love him.

YUI:
Oh, but Professor Fuyutsuki, he's quite a sweet person. It’s just that no one knows it.

She apparently failed to anticipate what would happen when she put her plan into action, and rather than messing up Seele's plan he messed up her plan too in an effort to be reunited with her... what exactly she wanted is unclear... school-eng101

Last edited by Kashira (09-21-2007 03:39:29 PM)

Raven Nightshade · Back to Top

I'm totally terrified by the whole Pokemon/SKU connection. But I think it's easy to find some manner of connection to a lot of series, Rose of Versailles being the most obvious and most discussed.

Mai_Kanzaki · Back to Top

xxkiriyamaxx wrote:
SPOILERS FOR EVANGELION, SO DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE SERIES (But I guess that if you haven't... YOU REALLY HAVEN'T?? FOR DIOS'S SAKE HAVE YOU'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK????!!!

Actually I had started collecting the dvds a long time ago then I found out how it ended. I've had no real desire to see anymore of it since then but I do enjoy the bread crumbs Eva-geeks throw out rather enthusiastically. emot-keke

So spoil away.

Ahem on topic though Ash seems quite Utena-ish in his wannabe nobility, his knot-headed pursuit of his goal and turning at least two of his "enemies"(the gym masters) into allies.

Game wise I think the Lavender Tower is the best connection though fighting the elite could be seen as working your way back up to the duel revolution which would be vs Mewtwo.

brian · Back to Top

Part of the power of Utena is that it has parallels to many stories. For example Spirited Away. A young girl is saved from drowning by a gallant stranger who disappears. She finds him a few years later only to discover that morally he is not the same person he used to be.

Of course there was hope for Haku.

ShatteredMirror · Back to Top

Haku chose not to stay in his coffin. Had Akio made the same choice perhaps he could have been redeemed. But then again, his lack of redemption is the reason why he stayed where he was, it wouldn't have been in-keeping with his character.

guardian_rose · Back to Top

on this matter i have the following to say:

Ekanssssssssss!

JIGGLYPUFF!

Razara · Back to Top

guardian_rose wrote:
http://www.ohtori.nu/gallery/seitokaidvd/Screen186.jpg
JIGGLYPUFF!

That's so true. emot-aaa

xxkiriyamaxx · Back to Top

guardian_rose wrote:
on this matter i have the following to say:

http://www.ohtori.nu/gallery/seitokaidvd/Screen186.jpgJIGGLYPUFF!

Hahahahahahaha!
Well said! Hahahaha!!

Raven Nightshade · Back to Top

Wait.... Does this mean that Utena gets to be Ash?

And does this mean that Anthy is Pikachu?

But then who gets to be Team Rocket?

Last edited by Raven Nightshade (09-23-2007 01:47:38 PM)

NajiMinkin · Back to Top

Mamiya and Mikage, perhaps?

BioKraze · Back to Top

OH NOES! Bio's been inspired! emot-gonk

Damn you, Reanna! Daaaaaaamn yooooooou!!... ... ...just kidding! emot-keke

Okay...a while back on her site, Purple Rose Gekijou, our dear forum member, Baka Kakumei Reanna, posted something about what moves the cast of Utena would use if they were Pokemon. I decided to expand on the list. Here goes:

--- Seitokai ---
UTENA: Sharpen (raises attack slightly)
ANTHY: Transform (special move used by the Pokemon Ditto)
SAIONJI: Doubleslap (attack 2-5 times in one turn)
MIKI: Metronome (random attack is used from the game's database)
JURI: Ice Beam (midpower ice elemental attack)
TOUGA: Lovely Kiss (effective sleep status attack)
NANAMI: Struggle (user takes 25% of damage inflicted, used when totally out of PP)

--- Black Rose ---
KANAE: Slash (powerful slash attack)
KOZUE: Rage (continuous attack, grows stronger as user takes damage)
SHIORI: Thrash (basic attack; after second or third turn, user becomes confused)
MITSURU: Growth (raises special slightly)
WAKABA: Tackle (basic tackle attack)
KEIKO: "Ignore" (ignores trainer if Badge level isn't high enough)
MAMIYA: Dream Eater (absorbs HP if the target is sleeping)
MIKAGE: Ember (weak fire elemental attack)

--- Apocalypse ---
RUKA: Selfdestruct (powerful attack that defeats the user instantly)
AKIO: Hypnosis (short timed sleep status attack
DIOS: Swords Dance (doubles attack power)
A-KO, B-KO & C-KO: Confusion (weak psychic elemental attack)
AIKO & YUUKO: Substitute (create a berserker clone with 25% HP)
SUZUKI, YAMADA & TANAKA: Sand-Attack (lowers accuracy slightly)
CHU CHU: Hyper Fang (powerful bite attack)

And there you have it, folks. It had to be done eventually. Any questions about my selection of moves? Anybody I miss that was important? Something not seem right? Let me know!

Edited to add Ruka and change some things around, nothing too major

Last edited by BioKraze (04-03-2008 03:03:59 PM)

BioKraze · Back to Top

Okay, I thought of some moves for the cast, but what would they be as actual Pokemon? Here's my listing of who's who in that vein...

--- Seitokai ---
UTENA: Lv.25 Magikarp
ANTHY: Lv.70 Mewtwo
SAIONJI: Lv.55 Scyther
MIKI: Lv.35 Pikachu
JURIi: Lv.50 Articuno
TOUGA: Lv.60 Scyther
NANAMI: Lv.25 Jigglypuff

--- Black Rose ---
KANAE: Lv.25 Meowth
KOZUE: Lv.30 Raichu
SHIORI: Lv.30 Persian
MITSURU: Lv.5 Charmander
WAKABA: Lv.25 Oddish
KEIKO: Lv.20 Beedrill
MAMIYA: Lv.30 Haunter
MIKAGE: Lv.45 Gengar

--- Apocalypse ---
RUKA: Lv.65 Magikarp
AKIO: Lv.85 Mewtwo
DIOS: Lv.100 Mew
A-KO, B-KO & C-KO: Lv.15 Ditto
AIKO & YUUKO: Lv.15 Ekans
SUZUKI, YAMADA & TANAKA: Lv.10 Koffing
CHU CHU: Lv.45 Raticate

The reason I listed Utena as level 25 and Magikarp is because at that level, all she needs to do is level up and she becomes a Gyarados. Think of it as gaining the Power of Dios for a duel. And Dios is a Mew because Mew can learn any TM or HM move in the game. I stuck to the "classic" 151 Pokemon because I'm a purist and haven't played anything beyond Blue/Red/Yellow. Forgive me.

Last edited by BioKraze (04-21-2008 06:39:39 PM)

Razara · Back to Top

BioKraze wrote:
--- Black Rose ---
KANAE: Lv.25 Meowth
KOZUE: Lv.30 Raichu
SHIORI: Lv.30 Persian
MITSURU: Lv.5 Charmander
WAKABA: Lv.25 Oddish
KEIKO: Lv.20 Beedrill
MAMIYA: Lv.30 Haunter
MIKAGE: Lv.45 Gengar

Persian was always one of my favorites! If normal type didn't suck so much, I probably would have used one in my party at some point.

This list deserves a Pop-tart. poptart I understand why Utena is a Magikarp, but why is Ruka a level 65 Magikarp?

BioKraze · Back to Top

Because even at level 65, Magikarp have crappy defence and special and HP. Ruka's sure to drop dead from a good hit or two.

Nanami's Rose Groom · Back to Top

OMGHeavens... I never ever saw this topic, but I am a Pokegames addict... I must try to Utenize my own Pokes... emot-smile

Tamago · Back to Top

Nanami's Rose Groom wrote:
OMGHeavens... I never ever saw this topic, but I am a Pokegames addict... I must try to Utenize my own Pokes...

I already do that, on my Pokemon Ruby, I named my pokemons after Utena characters, I called my Roselia Anthy, my Mawile Nanami, my male Skitty Nemuro, my Sharpedo Akio, my Shuppet Dios and my Combusken Touga which is fitting for a big red cock err rooster type pokemons.

Last edited by Tamago (04-05-2008 11:57:06 PM)

#1 | Back to Top09-19-2007 01:10:01 AM

Heavens! @_@

#2 | Back to Top09-19-2007 11:11:57 AM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#3 | Back to Top09-19-2007 02:40:59 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#4 | Back to Top09-19-2007 02:58:53 PM

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#5 | Back to Top09-19-2007 07:08:42 PM

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#6 | Back to Top09-19-2007 08:38:58 PM

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#7 | Back to Top09-19-2007 10:33:55 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

Drukqs wrote:

#8 | Back to Top09-19-2007 11:35:58 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

xxkiriyamaxx wrote:

#9 | Back to Top09-21-2007 10:57:32 AM

Re: Heavens! @_@

Kashira wrote:

#10 | Back to Top09-21-2007 03:38:36 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

Lightice wrote:

#11 | Back to Top09-21-2007 04:22:49 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#12 | Back to Top09-21-2007 06:24:02 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

xxkiriyamaxx wrote:

#13 | Back to Top09-21-2007 09:22:33 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#14 | Back to Top09-21-2007 10:51:47 PM

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#15 | Back to Top09-22-2007 10:51:39 AM

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#16 | Back to Top09-22-2007 10:58:54 AM

Re: Heavens! @_@

guardian_rose wrote:

#17 | Back to Top09-23-2007 12:47:28 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

guardian_rose wrote:

#18 | Back to Top09-23-2007 01:45:32 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#19 | Back to Top09-23-2007 02:49:02 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#20 | Back to Top10-08-2007 10:19:23 PM

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#21 | Back to Top04-03-2008 03:14:18 PM

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#22 | Back to Top04-03-2008 04:20:06 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

BioKraze wrote:

#23 | Back to Top04-03-2008 04:58:31 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

#24 | Back to Top04-05-2008 06:37:19 AM

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#25 | Back to Top04-05-2008 11:55:37 PM

Re: Heavens! @_@

Nanami's Rose Groom wrote:

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