This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top12-30-2006 10:44:19 AM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Kanae

Kanae - man, she got a raw deal. And I think she might just get the least attention in the Utena series for a multiple-appearances character.

Aww, poor Kanae - lets discuss her so she doesn't feel so lonely anymore! emot-dance


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#2 | Back to Top12-30-2006 11:11:48 AM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Kanae

Hmm, well I've always wondered...if Akio and Mrs. Ohtori have been having a fling for, let's say, MANY years and Akio doesn't age, he might have started the affair when Mrs. Ohtori was quite young. Maybe even before Kanae was born. Anthy's apple voodoo thing might have been going on Kanae's whole life. She's been a pawn from the beginning. No wonder Anthy gives her no respect. Why does she try so hard to win Anthy over though? Is it because she sees Anthy as the only person truly close to Akio?

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#3 | Back to Top12-30-2006 11:33:06 AM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Kanae

Although, wouldn't Mrs. Ohtori also not age also? I mean, she's part of the family that owns the academy, after all... but aging in Utena is the stuff of a whole other thread.

Anyway, like I said, Kanae gets a raw deal - her fiance cheats on her with anyone and everyone, including her own mother and his own sister, she gets drugged, she gets manipulated by Mikage, and it definitely seems she's be groomed her whole life to grow up, get married (specifically to a guy worthy of the title of Chairman), and have babies - ouch, that's not much of a life. You also get the feeling her whole life has basically been one manipulation after another.

Poor girl gets a much better chance in the movie - Akio dies, after all, giving her more of an opportunity at life.


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#4 | Back to Top12-30-2006 11:42:49 AM

Frau Eva
Voodoo Queen
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Kanae

A Day Without Me wrote:

Poor girl gets a much better chance in the movie - Akio dies, after all, giving her more of an opportunity at life.

There's a wonderful fanfic idea in that. *gets attacked by plotbunny* emot-gonk

Last edited by Frau Eva (12-30-2006 11:43:04 AM)


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#5 | Back to Top12-30-2006 12:49:15 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
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Re: Kanae

Well, Kanae is, I think, essentially a plot device. emot-frown Hmm, that's not giving her much love, is it...I guess, actually, what I think of Kanae is this: she is the definition of a <i>true</i> princess, at least from a fairytale point of view. She's been born to privilege but she has the duty that comes with it, and is essentially a prisoner in a tower -- hell, she's even being fed poison apples. She provides something of a foil for Utena herself, who rejects the need to be saved and everything else that defines a princess. She's not well-mannered and she's not blue-blooded, and if she needs saving Utena will do it herself. Kanae is a classic damsel in distress, and in some ways I wonder if some of Utena's guilt over sleeping with Kanae's handsome and "chivalrous" fiance comes from the fact she realises that while she is capable of saving herself, Kanae needs to be saved. (...from Akio. AHAHAHAHAHA I etc-love IRONY.)


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#6 | Back to Top12-30-2006 01:20:52 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Kanae

A Day Without Me wrote:

Although, wouldn't Mrs. Ohtori also not age also?

There is nothing indicating that Mrs. Ohtori would be anything but a normal human being, although Alan Harnum did make her a bit more in Jaquemart. As far as we know, she ages as much as anybody else. While Akio likes to give an impression that he is a newcomer to the Academy, he has clearly been there for a very long time, propably longer than Mrs. Ohtori, herself. Presumably his ability to manipulate people's memories and charm them as he pleases gave him the keys to his current position as the Acting Chairman. The fact that he took that position apparently only a short while before Utena came to the school implies that he had taken a new step in his plan, recently. Though for all we know, it may be a part of long circle of role-changes for him.

Anyway, like I said, Kanae gets a raw deal - her fiance cheats on her with anyone and everyone, including her own mother and his own sister

Sister-in-law, not real sister, thankfully.

She really doesn't seem remarkable in any way, whatsoever. I'm fairly sure that she was put into this thankless role was solely because Akio wanted to have the position of the Acting Chairman, there and then. Groomed for life to be a background character and plot-device. Yeah, life hasn't been exactly fair for her. No wonder she had all those frustrations that manifested in her Black Rose-persona. A pity that even then she didn't realize the source of those frustrations was her own fiance.


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#7 | Back to Top12-30-2006 04:45:15 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
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Re: Kanae

Kanae is one of my favorites, simply because of how jipped she is. Plus, she can see through Anthy, unlike many others. It also aids that I absolutely LOVE Kanae's hair, but uh, that has little to do her character.

Sadly though, I think Kanae only exists to cause angst, and help portray all the other "more important" characters in the light the director envisions them. She helps to show Utena how 'kind and caring' Akio is, and also helps us see Utena's restrait against Akio. She helps show what a little witch Anthy is [I love Anthy ^-^]. I mean really, without Kanae, Utena would be with Akio much sooner, Akio wouldn't have been able to be seen as quite the player he is [come on, you know that being engaged makes him seem a little worse to you], and Anthy wouldn't be seen as such an 'alien' or 'witch'. Not to say that Utena was keeping off Akio because of Kanae. Not to say Anthy was alienated because of Kanae. Not to say Akio was a whore because of Kanae. I'm simply saying Kanae helps PORTRAY them as such. Without her, we'd have much less symbolism to go on. Or maybe it's the other way around? I don't know, SKU can't really be explained.

The theories of age are interesting. I hadn't really thought about them before.


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#8 | Back to Top12-30-2006 04:59:15 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: Kanae

Frau Eva wrote:

A Day Without Me wrote:

Poor girl gets a much better chance in the movie - Akio dies, after all, giving her more of an opportunity at life.

There's a wonderful fanfic idea in that. *gets attacked by plotbunny* emot-gonk

Please write that fanfiction. I'll love you forever if you do.


Kanae is a character that I've loved from the very beginning. However, there isn't much more to her than being Akio's fiance, the reason why Utena's attraction to Akio is wrong.

She's an Ohtori, and so she is undoubtedly from a rich and well-respected family. Children from most rich families turn out spoiled, putting themselves in high regard because of this. Nanami is, perhaps, and example of this. On the other hand, Kanae seems quiet, polite, and not particularly spoiled.

I think that it could be that Kanae didn't receive a lot of attention from her parents when she was younger. Being the chairman of the academy, her father was probably always busy with work, and her mother doesn't seem as though she gave her daughter much thought. Even her own mother knowingly let her daughter become a pawn in Akio's game. She probably only saw her parents on occasion, only when they felt that they needed to, or when she finally gave in and asked for attention.

Assuming that she was ignored by her parents during her childhood, then perhaps what Kanae had hoped for when she found out that she was to be engaged to Akio was that he would give her the attention that she had always desired. He was not, however, what she had hoped for. Though she would probably like to have hoped that Akio really cared for her, we see her suggest that the reason why he got adopted into their family was just so that he could get at the facilities available to them if she did, because her thoughts have probably crossed the possibility that he's only marrying her because of that.

She points out that Akio had spent previous night at the chairman's residence, because she wanted him to be spending nights with herself, rather than at his work. Akio is, perhaps, exhibiting the same behavior as her father. She undoubtedly sees him, in some ways, as her father. Just as her father was the chairman, Akio is the acting chairman, replacing her father. Just as her father ignored her for his work, Akio is ignoring her for his work as well.

Anthy is what causes her to duel. We can assume that she is an only child, and so the idea of having a sister-in-law must have sounded wonderful to her at first. Anthy is also far from what she expected in a sister. How the two of them could have interacted depends on how you imagine it. They probably spent time together when Akio was around. Anthy generally does whatever her older brother tells her without a second thought, yet she won't even call Kanae, "Onee-chan," whereas Akio is her, "Onii-sama."

Refusing to call her, "Onee-chan," is Anthy's own form of manipulating Kanae. She probably doesn't understand why it is that Anthy won't recognize her as a sister, making her wonder if there if something wrong with herself that would cause Anthy to dislike her. Refusing to recognize her as a family member has a greater affect than any ordinary person that dislikes her would have, because he leads her to wonder if her parents don't want to recognize her as family as well.

Like most of the Black Rose duelists, Kanae sees Anthy as the thing that keeps her from attaining what she desires. Like her father before her, who ignored her for work and such, Akio neglects seeing her so that he can see his sister. Once again, Kanae is being cast off to the side for more important things, just as she has her whole life. She believes that Anthy is the reason that Akio won't see her, just as she believes that Anthy is the cause of her fathers illness, which prevents her from seeing him at all.

Though she eventually complains to Akio for neglecting to see her, making it seem as though perhaps she really does speak up for herself, and therefor wouldn't stand for letting her parents forget about her, it seems as though she did wait quite a while before she approached him about it.


Overall, Kanae is a girl who seeks to gain the attention that she's always wanted, only to have it once again taken away from her by something of greater importance. (I'm sorry for rambling again.)

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#9 | Back to Top12-31-2006 12:32:23 AM

Blade
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Darkest Canada
Registered: 12-01-2006
Posts: 181
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Re: Kanae

I certainly wouldn't dream of adding anything to all this excellent analysis of her character (at least not without rewatching again). However, I can't let any discussion of Kanae pass without mentioning one of my favourite pet theories about Utena.

Important Disclaimer: I wouldn't even dream of arguing this is canon. Except in my heart, where it totally is. etc-love

However, Kanae has green hair, which is traditionally a symbol of "awesome" in anime, so I think there has to be something really cool about her that isn't obvious. emot-tongue


I think Kanae is the Akio Car.

There is not much evidence to point to this, but in all fairness, there's not much evidence of anything regarding Kanae due to her insignificant screen time. One piece is, even more unfortunately, taken from the movie. But it's still worth noting anyway: all the cars in movie have the names of the characters on their license plates: Shiori, Utena, Kozue, Wakaba. The Akio Car has the license plate "Ohtori", which happens to be Kanae's last name. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, of course (especially since the series came first), but it's a neat coincidence.

It would also explain why Kanae is basically MIA for almost all the series, and adds a whole new dimension of creepy to her relationship with Anthy. It also means she's almost always with Akio, like a good fiancee should be. It also adds a new dimension to her complaints that Akio is "neglecting" her.

But the real reason I believe in this theory is because of this:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5936/unveilingcap0257px9.jpg

Poison or drugs? No, I don't see why Akio'd have to bother (and he habitually gets Anthy to do that sort of thing, so it rings wrong to me even though she's also there).  So what could this scene mean?

Well, Akio's car is obviously his symbolic substitute for the white horse of the prince.

And what do you feed horses?

Why, apples. cool

Last edited by Blade (12-31-2006 12:33:25 AM)

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#10 | Back to Top12-31-2006 01:03:48 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 190

Re: Kanae

Oh my... I'm not one to usually say this but YOU WIN TEH INTERNET! That put's Kanae in a whole new light for me, and it does explain a lot about her status in the series. I salute you good sir, well said! Nore evidence to support this is Ikuhara's comment about "The open shirt, is to symbolize the man becoming one with his car." He also said he named his cars, giving them female names, so it seems that this theory does hold some water underneath it. Not to mention how tender Akio is with it. If you think about it that way he truly does care for Kanae... as a car anyway.

Last edited by Xu Yuan (12-31-2006 01:09:11 AM)

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#11 | Back to Top12-31-2006 01:37:14 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Kanae

Who cares if that can hold up in canon or not? It's a very cool theory and great fun.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#12 | Back to Top12-31-2006 02:12:56 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
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Re: Kanae

Clarice wrote:

Kanae as a princess

Blast and damn you! We have had just about the same thought. Just now I was writing new content for the Mrs.Ohtori shrine and brushed on Kanae being a princess and her mother being an ex-princess that grew up and went all fallen and naughty. (Actually just now I was cooking eggs in purgatory but you know what I mean.)

I definitely agree that Kanae is something of the stereotypical princess. Odd that, considering that, she means nothing at all in the context of the series. No one cares about her, and she doesn't matter, and yet when Dios was around, the world revolved around what her kind wanted. But then, that makes sense; princesses were never valuable in and of themselves, they were always the means one used to obtain the hand of a prince to bring to the throne.

Which...well now that I think of it, Dios is the archetype and fantasy of the prince, and Akio appears to live the life of an actual historical prince. Wealth, luxury, and strategic marriage to a well-chosen last name belonging to a princess.

I've always found it telling as to how little she matters to anyone important that she duels, and is the first of the BRS duelists. She's effectively Mikage's guinea pig, and Akio doesn't seem to give a rat's ass. But then, I suspect if Kanae dropped dead the next day, Akio certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#13 | Back to Top12-31-2006 05:34:17 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: Kanae

Maybe the reason Akio neglects Kanae is something as simple as the fact that with her as his fiancee, she is no longer 'forbidden fruit' and therefore no where as enticing to him sexually as Akio strikes me as the type who needs a form of danger in his sexual life, be it physical danger or moral danger in the cases of Utena and Anthy. emot-rolleyesschool-freud

Last edited by Tamago (12-31-2006 06:13:40 AM)

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#14 | Back to Top12-31-2006 06:08:22 AM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
Website

Re: Kanae

Giovanna wrote:

Clarice wrote:

Kanae as a princess

Blast and damn you! We have had just about the same thought. Just now I was writing new content for the Mrs.Ohtori shrine and brushed on Kanae being a princess and her mother being an ex-princess that grew up and went all fallen and naughty. (Actually just now I was cooking eggs in purgatory but you know what I mean.)

I definitely agree that Kanae is something of the stereotypical princess. Odd that, considering that, she means nothing at all in the context of the series. No one cares about her, and she doesn't matter, and yet when Dios was around, the world revolved around what her kind wanted. But then, that makes sense; princesses were never valuable in and of themselves, they were always the means one used to obtain the hand of a prince to bring to the throne.

I think the idea got stuck in my head, actually, because I have been reading far too much about Henry VIII's wives as of late (and being morbid by lurking about the area where two of them were beheaded until the Beefeaters got perturbed and said: "Are you lost?" emot-keke). The first, Katherine of Aragon, was pretty well-known for always looking the other way while her husband screwed every likely lady in his court and being "a constant princess." Although Kanae is by no means as strong-willed and sensible as Katherine, I think of her as being raised for a similar thing. Although I doubt Kanae knows her fiance is shagging her mother and half the school behind her back, if she DID...would it make any difference? Probably not. For all we know, Kanae doesn't really want to marry Akio anyway. She implies in the elevator that she is pleased with the match, but even before she screeches about Anthy being an alien I think Kanae was just making the best of a situation she always knew she was going to be placed into. In the good ol' days women were used as bartering tools, and princesses weren't exempt from this -- in fact, they were some of the best and the hardest currency there was. Kanae's value is in her name and in her blood, which is why as a person, she's pretty much shafted. (...and not in a good way. emot-tongue)

Giovanna wrote:

Which...well now that I think of it, Dios is the archetype and fantasy of the prince, and Akio appears to live the life of an actual historical prince. Wealth, luxury, and strategic marriage to a well-chosen last name belonging to a princess.

I've always found it telling as to how little she matters to anyone important that she duels, and is the first of the BRS duelists. She's effectively Mikage's guinea pig, and Akio doesn't seem to give a rat's ass. But then, I suspect if Kanae dropped dead the next day, Akio certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

I don't think he would, either. You could argue that from the viewpoint of "so who would be chairman then?" but I figure Akio would find a way. This whole marriage seems incidental to the time period anyway as Akio has been at Ohtori for god knows how long anyway, and besides...he's acting chairman. Power and influence without the responsibility. Kind of like being a prince, as compared to being the king. emot-biggrin


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#15 | Back to Top12-31-2006 09:06:47 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Kanae

I recall someone saying that, although raised in a wealthy family, Kanae is polite and pleasant, as opposed to the spoiled and selfish behavior displayed by the Kiryuus, both children of a wealthy family. This would reinforce her role as a fairytale princess - after all, what fairy tale princess is depicted as being selfish, unpleasant, or cruel?

When you consider Kanae's behavior, it is more in line with what one would consider the "old money" as opposed to "nouveau riche" (Hilton sisters, anyone), or, put more clearly, those of new money who try to appear classy and impressive (this as opposed to those of newer fortunes whom do not feel this need to flash their worth). So Kanae being of old money would imply an old family, one like a dynasty of sorts.

Contrast this with Nanami and Touga, whom both behave selfishly and unpleasantly in their own ways. Nanami throws extravagant parties, which show off the Kiryuu household and its economic worth, while abusing her lackies and other vulnerable people. Touga, while not necessarily openly flaunting his family's wealth, treats females as objects for his enjoyment. That they are both adopted emphasizes the idea of their status of "new money" types. You also see their adoptive parents as following the same sort of behavior as Nanami in Touga's extravagant birthday party. Nanami cannot be a princess no more than Touga can be a prince - they have no dynasty to back them up.

But, again, Kanae is a princess - proper background and mannerisms ensure this - especially mannerisms, as Utena can and is considered a prince by the merit of her own actions (although, if she were considered a princess, I doubt her actions would be enough - she'd need the dynastic family to back it up).



On a completely unrelated note, at some points movie-Kanae looks younger than series-Kanae, but then at others she looks older. Am I just seeing things? emot-confused Was this done on purpose (to display the arbitrariness of time at Ohtori), or just the animation staff going off model?


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."

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#16 | Back to Top01-01-2007 05:00:21 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
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Re: Kanae

Clarice wrote:

You could argue that from the viewpoint of "so who would be chairman then?" but I figure Akio would find a way.

Well I tend to assume if the legal bond is broken by death his position would remain as it is just because he's already there. Furthermore, I suspect Mrs.Ohtori would play her hand on Akio's behalf to keep him where she can occasionally jump him. emot-dance

I'm really loving the Ohtori/Kiryuu old money/nouveau riche thing. I wanna write at gross length about this.

The Kiryuus are especially fitting since technically, Touga and Nanami are very nouveau; they were adopted into that family, and Touga at least remembers whatever came before that.

I definitely agree that Kanae was making the best of the situation, I don't think she's in love with Akio. For Akio's part, I can't help but suspect this was deliberate. It is curious to me that she seems to place her hatred on Anthy when the worthy target is the one with his tongue in her mouth the first time we meet him. emot-redface


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#17 | Back to Top01-01-2007 06:21:28 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Kanae

Giovanna wrote:

It is curious to me that she seems to place her hatred on Anthy when the worthy target is the one with his tongue in her mouth the first time we meet him. emot-redface

My guess is that on some level she may dislike Akio, but she knows she really has no choice, she's stuck with him regardless, so she transfers her ill feelings to Anthy. Anthy definitely helps her make this association, too, given her refusal to call Kanae "onee-chan" and thereby accept her as family.

Oo, and glad you liked my little old money/noveau riche analysis - I just started writing about Kanae when it suddenly all came to me! emot-keke

Last edited by A Day Without Me (01-01-2007 06:22:20 PM)


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."

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#18 | Back to Top01-03-2007 09:27:14 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: Kanae

A Day Without Me wrote:

Anthy definitely helps her make this association, too, given her refusal to call Kanae "onee-chan" and thereby accept her as family.

Anthy does kinda go out of her way to nag at Kanae...one gets the impression she especially doesn't like her. (Odd, I don't think either of the siblings like her much.) I can't imagine what Anthy would have against Kanae, huh? emot-wink


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#19 | Back to Top08-26-2012 03:55:29 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2354

Re: Kanae

Dani wrote:

Why does she try so hard to win Anthy over though? Is it because she sees Anthy as the only person truly close to Akio?

Occam’s Razor says she’s just trying to be polite.

What intrigues me is that Anthy is probably more jealous of Kanae and Akio’s relationship then Kanae is of theirs. She has a good reason to be, too.  We’re all forgetting that Kanae can give Akio children. If he’s smart at ALL he’ll give the Ohtoris grandchildren to stay on their good side, and you can’t help but get a little attached to the mother of your child. I’m not saying he loves her. I’m saying he likes what an obedient little pet she is. He’s already forced to make it look like he’s spending enough time with her and that would only increase if she ever got pregnant.  I’d hate to think how spiteful Anthy would get if that ever happened.


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My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#20 | Back to Top08-26-2012 05:07:19 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Kanae

Well, I imagine I would want to get along with Anthy if I was in Kanae's place. There's no getting away from Anthy if you're going to be with Akio after all.

And I can definitely imagine that she's not that thrilled about the marriage, which is bad enough without having a sister-in-law that hates you.

The apple-scene is also the creepiest scene in the show, IMHO.

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#21 | Back to Top08-26-2012 06:59:44 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
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Re: Kanae

Lurv wrote:
The apple-scene is also the creepiest scene in the show, IMHO.

I kept seeing the apple as a penguindrum, and that double A is force feeding her the thing to power her up as a backup rose bride.


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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