This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
#1 | Back to Top11-19-2006 09:17:56 AM
- Suyo
- Tenjou Tilter
- From: Washington
- Registered: 10-23-2006
- Posts: 82
The Prince
"There never really was a prince"
Utena says this when she's talking to Touga in the elevator from the movie.
What exactly does she mean by this?
Could she mean that, even when Dios was alive, he was jsut manipulating the people (or part of Anthy's manipulation?)
May those who accept their fate be granted happiness. May those who defy it be granted Glory.
Offline
#2 | Back to Top11-19-2006 03:11:02 PM
- Xu Yuan
- Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
- Registered: 10-19-2006
- Posts: 190
Re: The Prince
I never noticed that, but it may ring along the same lones of Akio saying the same things, "There never was a Prince in this world to begin with..." From what I have read Utena's (in both version's) subconcious realizes event's much quicker then she herself realizes it. This small phrase though is simply to show the power of Ohtori. There was no Prince who saved her, that's what Touga's ghost had been trying to show her. which is very cunning visually speaking to come to clarity in Mikage's elevator. The one who had saved Utena was Touga himself, in the movie Touga fit's the Dios stature perfectly, even sacrificing his life for his own chivalry.. Series Touga... would probably never have done that. Utena says that since she came to Ohtori she had forgotten that Touga had died... in this case it shows that Akio's power is askewed in "New Ohtori" Kunie says that that in the movie he made Akio younger, leaning towards, a self assured, yet insecure "manipulator". One who had not completely abandoned Dios, yet has given into tmeptation.. .at loeast that's what I believe.
Offline
#3 | Back to Top11-19-2006 06:07:26 PM
- skewed_tartan
- Touga Topper
- From: El Terra De Richard Nixon
- Registered: 10-16-2006
- Posts: 55
- Website
Re: The Prince
There never really was a prince
From what I know that line occurs only in the English version, in Japanese it was "No, the Prince was dead from the beginning." I'm almost sure of it, but I'll have to replay my Utena Movie to double check.
What she meant by either one, I'll get back to you after I see it again. 
ETA: Okay, I was right after all for once. Of course that Japanese one is probably more of a reference to Touga than Akio, and the English possibly Akio, or Touga, or possibly both. Akio was never a prince, and in that world Touga doesn't exist so it can go either way or both.
Last edited by skewed_tartan (11-19-2006 06:13:27 PM)
Offline
#5 | Back to Top11-20-2006 05:28:05 AM
- Hina the Prince
- Friend, Perhaps
- From: Israel
- Registered: 10-20-2006
- Posts: 320
Re: The Prince
skewed_tartan wrote:
There never really was a prince
From what I know that line occurs only in the English version, in Japanese it was "No, the Prince was dead from the beginning."
Wasn't it "We were together in killing the prince", or something?
In any case, I look at it this way - the prince, the image of ideality, doesn't exist - it's an illusion as much as the castle in the sky. Searching for him - someone who's always just and pure and strong and will protect you forever, is futile. I mean, the closest thing Utena and Anthy had to princes were the ghosts of their loved ones. And after a person dies, you only remember the good things about him.
And so, by escaping with Anthy to the outside world, Utena broke the illusion of Ohtori, as well as the definitions of "Prince" and "Princess". Those things were never real, but like Touga being dead, Utena didn't realize it until she got out of Ohtori.
...Did any of that make sense? ._.;
Offline
#6 | Back to Top11-20-2006 02:23:07 PM
Re: The Prince
Hina the Prince wrote:
..Did any of that make sense? ._.;
Well I think I know what you are getting at, I have troubles explaining my thoughts and ideas in a way that people can understand clearly at times as well.
In the movie, Utena was finally able to accept that Touga was her 'prince' but since he is gone, she realised that she needed to move on and get on with her life.
In the anime, Utena was made into a prince partly out for her desire to save Anthy and in part due to Akio's mackinations(sic) to create the prince's sword.
For anime Anthy, when she took Utena's hand when she was in her coffin, that was all she really needed to do to be saved (even if Utena 'died' believing she failed) which freed her from her 'Prince Akio' who had long since became a toad, (a sexy cane toad metaphor fits Akio so well) and allowed her to move on as well.
Offline
#7 | Back to Top11-21-2006 08:12:29 AM
Re: The Prince
Well, they say different things on several different occasions...in the garden, before the dance scene, Utena says that there was never really a prince. Later, in talking to Touga, she says that there wasn't a live Prince (or that the Prince was dead). At the end, after their escape, they say that they were "together in killing the Prince."
In the movie, I looked at the dead-Prince stuff as being more...
Well, I like the movie Moulin Rouge, and I've been known to say that the only decent love story is one where someone dies at the end. That's the only way you can have an eternal love, in my opinion. ;) If both lovers remain alive, the relationship will disintegrate. Yeah, I'm an optimist.
So when Utena says there was never a live Prince to begin with, I took that to mean... The Prince is someone who is willing to sacrifice everything to perform noble deeds--just like Touga sacrificed his life in order to try to save the drowning Juri. Touga wasn't afraid to die to do what was right. (Just like Utena wasn't afraid to turn into a car in order to give Anthy a vehicle for escape). If the Prince is alive...he hasn't sacrificed. And there's always the chance that he will go bad, like Akio did/was doing.
This is like a Christ metaphor--if Christ hadn't died, he wouldn't have been the Savior. It's a requirement, a destiny, of a sort.
But, then, there's a compelling argument that movie-Ohtori is a world populated by ghosts. Not just ghosts of the literally-dead, like Touga, but ghosts of the figuratively-dead, like Anthy and Utena. Their talk of dead Princes could easily be recognition that being in Ohtori means not truly living. (Remaining a living corpse).
Offline