This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#76 | Back to Top07-18-2007 05:36:47 PM

ShatteredMirror
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From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

I think you're right about the movie/manga persona thing. Mmanga!Juri is pretty much just a two-dimensional foil for Utena, but with the introduction of Shiori she becomes more layered and interesting. I never fully understood why manga!Juri was in love with Touga, I mean I suppose it's because he reminded her of Ruka, but it's never really established why she loved Ruka either.


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#77 | Back to Top07-18-2007 05:43:34 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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Registered: 10-16-2006
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Yep. Whether you like Shiori or not, you have to admit that she makes Juri more interesting. ..well, unless you prefer manga!Juri. I don't, but I think I've seen someone who did.

And Touga is dead in the movie, so Saionji doesn't know him at the moment.. and look at movie!Saionji. Hm. Are there any others? emot-tongue

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#78 | Back to Top07-18-2007 05:59:45 PM

dollface
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From: North Carolina
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

That's what I always say. Most people with a strong dislike of Shiori are Juri fans, and they should appreciate Shiori more than anyone. I suppose the same may go for Ruka... but I'm a hypocrite, what can I say? emot-tongue

I'm sure that I'm the only one who thinks that, but the lack of Nanami in the manga makes Touga a very different character to me. It should make me like him more, as his poor treatment of her makes me a little wary of some scenes, but I think that without the manipulation aspect, he becomes very... one-sided. He loves Utena, he wants to protect her. There are really no two ways about that. This may make him seem like a better Prince candidate, but I think it makes him rather boring, and I pay little attention to him. Not saying that manga!Touga isn't a good character, but I don't think he's nearly as interesting as anime!Touga. The same could be said for virtually every character; well, that every character is more interesting in the anime, not that every character is still interesting in the manga. I'm sorry, but Juri, Kozue, Saionji... you give me no reason to like manga!you whatsoever.

Last edited by dollface (11-24-2009 04:30:26 PM)


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#79 | Back to Top07-18-2007 06:28:30 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

I think Ruka's presence in the anime makes Juri more interesting, just like Shiori. When he shows up, as someone from Juri's past, it just makes you wonder what happened between them.

Oh, and Nanami and Touga in the movie/manga.. that's another good one. Hm. What about why Akio and Shiori are so different in the movie? I think Akio must have been castrated, and his penis was wrapped in lace and then handed to Shiori. emot-tongue Penis = symbolizes power. Even his tower was castrated!

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#80 | Back to Top07-18-2007 06:35:00 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

I think Akio must have been castrated, and his penis was wrapped in lace and then handed to Shiori. emot-tongue

You win. poptart This thought has now been implanted in my brain. emot-biggrin

Off-topic, but I've been thinking about writing some kind of analysis on movie!Juri and movie!Shiori's relationship. But, I don't know where I would put it (Interpreting Symbolism perhaps, but would we really put movie things in there?), as well as it not being very impressive, more likely than not. Not to mention, analysis? Shiori? I'd be stepping all over Razara territory, and I wouldn't do it very gracefully.

But, that aside, their relationship changes very much, a lot more than people think. So, if you like movie!Juri, yet another reason to be thankful for that cruelly innocent little bitch! etc-love

Last edited by dollface (11-24-2009 04:32:31 PM)


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#81 | Back to Top07-18-2007 06:43:41 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Pssh, all analysis is welcome. etc-love And.. I think the main symbolism interpretation thread would be fine, but then again, it isn't my thread. I don't think it's limited to just series analysis, though. And I was always curious about movie Juri and Shiori's relationship myself.

I'm also wondering why Ikuhara did the things he did to the characters in the movie.. there must be reasons. He claimed that Shiori was his favourite character, and that Akio was stealing all of his women, but I'm not sure. In Shiori's case, I think it might have been like.. "Oh, you hate Shiori now? I can make it worse. emot-tongue" Since a lot of the Shiori-bashers from the past apparently thought she was the ultimate evil, even worse than Akio.. so he actually made her that way in the movie?

As for Akio in the movie.. I think he took some kind of sick amusement in taking such a sexy, powerful character and turning him into a flop. emot-biggrin

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#82 | Back to Top07-18-2007 06:57:35 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

He said Shiori was his favorite? The last time I'd checked, he states in an interview that his personal favorite is Nanami.

Then again, I'm not complaining. emot-biggrin Honestly, I'd look for ways to make characters worse, too. Just for the hell of it, which seems so be Ikuhara's logic a lot of the time.


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#83 | Back to Top07-18-2007 07:48:19 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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From: Washington DC
Registered: 10-16-2006
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Either I got that wrong or he changes his answers to confuse people.. I wouldn't be surprised about either one. emot-tongue

Speaking of characters, I finally read the essay on Keiko in Empty Movement.. just, wow. It was really good. I'm still not crazy about Keiko, but she's a lot more interesting now. It also makes sense why she didn't just try dating Touga on her own.. she didn't want to be just another fling.

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#84 | Back to Top07-19-2007 12:09:39 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

'm also wondering why Ikuhara did the things he did to the characters in the movie.. there must be reasons. He claimed that Shiori was his favourite character, and that Akio was stealing all of his women, but I'm not sure. In Shiori's case, I think it might have been like.. "Oh, you hate Shiori now? I can make it worse. emot-tongue" Since a lot of the Shiori-bashers from the past apparently thought she was the ultimate evil, even worse than Akio.. so he actually made her that way in the movie?

As for Akio in the movie.. I think he took some kind of sick amusement in taking such a sexy, powerful character and turning him into a flop. emot-biggrin

I think you've got his personality down pat. Ikuhara's, that is.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#85 | Back to Top07-19-2007 12:58:28 AM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

This is far from polished, so please forgive it for its roughness.

I, too am one of the few who favors Saionji, for many of the same reasons others have elaborated on.  For all his barbs, he is, at heart, a vulnerable child with a broken ego as his shield.  It's of interest that he, like several other members of the cast, is fairly astute in his perceptions, though unlike the others he only really seems to use this knowledge to either disenchant himself or provide himself with some shard of redemption of character; it's justification for his actions, rather than cerebral weapons.  It seems he can't -- or won't -- own up to his idea of himself; he has a solid-enough reckoning of what series of circumstances would make things easiest, but lacks the conviction in his ability to achieve those ends.  A teeter-totter, really.  He desires an end but hates the idea that change is the means.

These stagnating trates generally tend to grate, but Saionji manages to make them earn my sympathies, mostly on account of the causes of his turmoil -- he's kicked around by almost everyone, either because they know he's essentially all bark or because they like seeing him lose himself, and it's just terribly sad.  For all the bruising, there's quite obviously a sensitive person beneath -- it's what he's trying to protect with his repellent nature, after all -- and when it does briefly show it offers such absolution.  Unfortunately, it seems most fans have made up their mind about him by the time a peek into the damage is given.  The same seems to apply for Nanami, my other favorite character.

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#86 | Back to Top07-19-2007 05:42:19 PM

Like_Autumn
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Registered: 07-18-2007
Posts: 639
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

I love obsessing over fictional characters, but Utena is kind of different. I think the whole "aura" of the show makes me feel sort of detached from the characters, as if it's a story being told. It's hard to get too attached when characters may have done something in the past, the future, be representing someone else, or have not existed at all. But um... I guess the characters are extremely unique and interesting, and every single one has flaws, making him or her more believable.

I have to say that right now I really like Juri. I guess there's a part of me that always feels sympathetic toward strong, sad women. I admire her, but I also feel bad about her situation. I kind of find Anthy interesting, but the image of such a helpless female hits me the wrong way personally (although I know she's not really so helpless). I like Utena and sort of respect her, but she's also extremely naive about things. Then again, I guess innocence is not really so bad. I like Wakaba too, for being blissfully normal in a series that is so not.

And of course, the Shadow Play Girls (if they even count as characters). I love how they're both insightful and silly, even if they may not be real people. They have an interesting perspective on things. I love the way that A-ko and B-ko act together, it's really quite cute. I just wish I understood them better.


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#87 | Back to Top07-19-2007 07:04:17 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

I'd say they definitely count. I love the Shadow Girls to death. I've found that most people prefer C-Ko to A-Ko and B-Ko, but I just loved seeing A-Ko and B-Ko act together so much more. E-Ko and F-Ko are pretty cool, too, although they're pretty much the same as the prior. Of course, you can't tell an Adolescence-lover that. emot-tongue Nah, I do love the movie a lot, but I think it gets overlooked a bit (not including movie!Akio and his torment). I mean, there isn't much analysis on events or characters in the movie, save for a few. That's the main reason I wanted to do one for Juri and Shiori.

Last edited by dollface (11-24-2009 04:34:04 PM)


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#88 | Back to Top07-19-2007 07:10:24 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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From: Washington DC
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2096
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Like_Autumn wrote:

And of course, the Shadow Play Girls (if they even count as characters). I love how they're both insightful and silly, even if they may not be real people. They have an interesting perspective on things. I love the way that A-ko and B-ko act together, it's really quite cute. I just wish I understood them better.

If you dig around, there's an old thread somewhere just about the Shadow Play girls. emot-keke (And this forum doesn't mind necro-ing) I adore them too. I'd love to analyze their plays some more.. some of them I get right away, while others still puzzle me. They're just such interesting characters.. the fact that they are 'shadows' is fitting too, because the shadows see all.

Edit: dollface, I agree. I'd love to see more movie analysis. I think one reason why many people don't do it is because it's hard to do an analysis for the movie without borrowing from the series, and the movie and series are very different..

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (07-19-2007 07:11:56 PM)

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#89 | Back to Top07-19-2007 07:12:52 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Like_Autumn wrote:

And of course, the Shadow Play Girls (if they even count as characters).

Ducks and covers from the hyacinth bomb that will surely be exploding in this thread soon. emot-biggrin


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#90 | Back to Top07-19-2007 07:22:28 PM

Like_Autumn
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Registered: 07-18-2007
Posts: 639
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

dollface wrote:

I'd say they definately count. I love the Shadow Girls to death. I've found that most people prefer C-Ko to A-Ko and B-Ko, but I just loved seeing A-Ko and B-Ko act together so much more. E-Ko and F-Ko are pretty cool, too, although they're pretty much the same as the prior. Of course, you can't tell an Adolescene-lover that. emot-tongue Nah, I do love the movie a lot, but I think it gets overlooked a bit [not including movie!Akio and his torment]. I mean, there really are no analyses [I'm pretty sure that's how you pluralize that] on events or characters in the movie, save for a few. That's the main reason I wanted to do one for Juri and Shiori; there are already Juri and Shiori coming out the wazoo, but there aren't any for their movie relationship. Besides that, if anyone had a problem with it I could just tell them to go find another damn movie related analysis.

Yay, the shadow girls have other fans! I haven't seen the episodes with C-ko yet, and I still have yet to see the Utena movie. I found a topic for the SPG though, so that should be fun. Thanks for the welcome.


Number 1 Shadow Girl Fan

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#91 | Back to Top07-19-2007 07:46:45 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2925

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

My favorite character is Anthy, no question. She has my favorite anime color combo, green eyes and violet hair. I never really identified with her aside from the "There's me, then there's everyone else" perspective. But I love her, though.

I tend to be drawn to the enigmatic, mysterious characters. If I like how they look and I know nothing about their background, I only like them more.

Coming in a very, very, very close second is Akio. I like villains, even redeemable ones. If they have pastel/white hair, automatic win. On top of that, the man exudes sex and power like a pheromone.

In a semi-distant third is Kozue. If it wasn't for the fact that's only 13, I'd like her better. If she's that much of a force to be reckoned with at that age, imagine what she'll be like when she's in high school. She radiates this confidence and security that I think may be lacking most of the cast, even Touga. I'm sure that if she were confronted head-on about that fateful day when she and Miki were kids, we'd see a different Kozue.


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
Knows how to comfort me tonight.

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#92 | Back to Top07-20-2007 02:26:48 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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From: Washington DC
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2096
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Forgot to post this, but.. Razara, did you say you wanted to create a favourite character poll? I don't think you could do that on the forum, so I was trying to think of some alternate. I was thinking of using the poll feature on livejournal, but then I remembered that you need to have an account and be logged in to vote. emot-frown There seems to be a lot of poll-creating websites, but not many with a ton of options for characters, or allowing just anyone to vote without an account.. so I'm stumped.

Here's a list of characters, though, let me know if I forgot anyone.

Utena
Anthy
Touga
Saionji
Juri
Miki
Nanami
Shiori
Kozue
Wakaba
Keiko
Tsuwabuki
Kanae
Mikage
Akio
Ruka
Tatsuya
Shadow girl(s) ?

Would Chigusa count? Real!Mamiya? Tokiko? Kanae's mom? Hmmm... anyone else? I didn't want to put extremely minor characters, because most polls have a limit. But if anyone feels there are others that are important, let me know.

Of course, I don't know who's making the poll, or when, but I thought making a list might be helpful to whoever does it.

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#93 | Back to Top07-20-2007 08:11:07 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Of course, I don't know who's making the poll, or when, but I thought making a list might be helpful to whoever does it.

Hmm.. I can have a poll on my webspace that is viewable by anyone and no signups needed to vote or anything.  I haven't used that feature in years, but I'd be willing to host some SKU polls whenever we might feel the need for one.  The interface is kind of primitive, but at least it's a functioning feature! I think I can only run one poll at a time (though each poll can have multiple questions), but results can be archived when a new one goes up. I'd even make a super secret page on my website just for IRG polls. 

If anyone wants to maybe try to coordinate something, feel free to PM me and we can work out details. emot-keke

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (07-20-2007 08:12:45 PM)


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#94 | Back to Top07-20-2007 10:20:59 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 589

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

This is slightly off-topic but I was struck by comments from Dollface and SleepDebtFairy about the fundamental innocence of Shiori. In the end there is an endearing deep-down innocence to most of the characters including possibly even Anthy. Not Akio of course and perhaps not Touga or Ruka. Perhaps not Mrs. Ohtori. But most of the female characters are innocent on some level.

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#95 | Back to Top07-20-2007 11:58:29 PM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

I'm not sure about Touga, Yasha would be able to answer that better than I could, but I think Ruka does have a degree of innocence left - if he were truly jaded he wouldn't have bothered to try and push Juri into getting over Shiori because he'd have assumed that he'd have failed and it wouldn't have made a difference. The fact that he tried, even though he probably knew that he had little if any chance of success, meant that he had the innocence to do something essentially futile because he thought that it was the right thing to do. It takes a specific kind of personality to make the person you love most in the world hate you because you did something for her that would end up being for the best.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#96 | Back to Top07-21-2007 11:55:59 AM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Would Chigusa count? Real!Mamiya? Tokiko? Kanae's mom? Hmmm... anyone else? I didn't want to put extremely minor characters, because most polls have a limit. But if anyone feels there are others that are important, let me know.

Dios?

Not that anyone would probably vote for him.


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#97 | Back to Top07-21-2007 06:13:31 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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From: Washington DC
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2096
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Imaginary Bad Bug wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Of course, I don't know who's making the poll, or when, but I thought making a list might be helpful to whoever does it.

Hmm.. I can have a poll on my webspace that is viewable by anyone and no signups needed to vote or anything.  I haven't used that feature in years, but I'd be willing to host some SKU polls whenever we might feel the need for one.  The interface is kind of primitive, but at least it's a functioning feature! I think I can only run one poll at a time (though each poll can have multiple questions), but results can be archived when a new one goes up. I'd even make a super secret page on my website just for IRG polls. 

If anyone wants to maybe try to coordinate something, feel free to PM me and we can work out details. emot-keke

That would be awesome. If no one else wants to try to help coordinate that, I can a little later - a friend from NJ is over and we're going on a trip soon. Thank you for the offer. (:

Although, I do think it might be best to have the option to vote more than one character - but probably no more than four. Some people have a few favourites they can't decide from.



Ragnarok wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Would Chigusa count? Real!Mamiya? Tokiko? Kanae's mom? Hmmm... anyone else? I didn't want to put extremely minor characters, because most polls have a limit. But if anyone feels there are others that are important, let me know.

Dios?

Not that anyone would probably vote for him.

Dios! Thank you! Hmm. But would Akio count as Dios or not? I suppose putting both would be better..

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#98 | Back to Top07-21-2007 06:50:33 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

Akio definitely should count apart from Dios. emot-mad

BTW, Touga isn't innocent. I don't think he was born innocent.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#99 | Back to Top07-21-2007 07:21:50 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
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Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Although, I do think it might be best to have the option to vote more than one character - but probably no more than four. Some people have a few favourites they can't decide from.

This may be the snag with what I have to use... last time I used it, each question is only allowed one response.  I can take another look at the interface, but it may not be possible for me to make one that says "you may pick up to four".  I'd hope that my ISP would have updated their site tool capabilities, so I'll have to see.  Even the guestbook that they have is archaic by today's standards... emot-redface Then again, I haven't used that in years either...

If I'm not able to, and another free polling option can't be found, one workaround might be to have four questions... "who is your #1 fave?" "who is your #2 fave" etc to #4, each with the same character lists, and everyone just responds according to how many they have.  For example, if someone only has 2 top favorites, then they just answer for 1 and 2 and leave 3 and 4 blank.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (07-21-2007 07:26:16 PM)


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#100 | Back to Top08-13-2007 07:17:01 AM

hyaene
Miki Molester
From: germany
Registered: 08-12-2007
Posts: 33

Re: Who's Your Favorite Character?

the characters i like most are:

utena- (it's really seldom that i like the main character emot-keke), because in my opinion she's the most honest and straightforward one. and that's what i appreciate the most in real life, next to loyality. besides she is very determined and i like how she looks :3

anthy- she's maybe the most intersting character in the series and the perfect match for utena emot-keke. altough i like the movie-anthy's personality a little bit more.

mikage- what to say... i think i'm most like him emot-keke

nanami- in my eyes a hurt child who has to start learning the difference between good and bad. i think she's just pretty confused (i'd be too in her place).

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