Stephanie wrote:

Sure, he's hot..

He's not hot, he's insanely ridiculously hot ..and evil... and hot and ~~~

Stephanie wrote:

@Brian
That's fanart, right? It looks like in the movie or TV series..

I think it's from an art book.

I love your avatar by the way.

Lol, anyway, we've been off-topic.. *started by me, of course.. sorry*

So, if Anthy is looking for Utena, where do you think Utena went?
Where is she?

Clarice wrote:

Maybe that's why Utena is so upset. Not just because Anthy's sleeping with the man she loves, but the fact that Anthy made the decision to do this and apparently has been doing it all along while Utena thought she was incapable of doing anything without being told to.

And to add insult to injury, the changes Utena's been struggling to convince Anthy to make are, overall, far healthier than the choices Anthy appears to have made voluntarily. Most of the time I don't give Utena the benefit of the doubt for her believing she knows what's best for people, but even her misguided best intentions for Anthy are an improvement over SLEEPING WITH YOUR ENGAGED BROTHER. It's gotta really sting when you're trying to help someone, and you discover they are using their perfectly functional decisionmaking abilities to hurt themselves. For Utena, perhaps it felt like finding this was hearing Anthy saying 'FUCK YOU I DON'T WANT YOUR HELP', and she had the natural 'FINE FUCK YOU THEN' reaction?

brian wrote:

Stephanie wrote:

@Brian
That's fanart, right? It looks like in the movie or TV series..

I think it's official but Yasha and Giovanna, would know.

Official TV series artwork taken from the Maison de Chu-Chu CD-ROM.

Stephanie wrote:

I see..

Just last 2 questions (lol, my never ending undying questions)


2.) In the movie, in the dancing part.. Why did stars appeared suddenly when Anthy destroyed the water pump? Sure she sacrificed her rose field, but why was there stars all of a sudden?

Because water flooded the garden. Water reflects light, and so reflected all the stars above the garden. So they appeared to be dancing on stars, as at the height of the garden, only stars would be reflected by the water.

Last edited by Ashnod (10-06-2007 01:57:46 PM)

Stephanie wrote:

1.) What were Touga and Sainji's wish anyway? Why are they still trapped in their coffin?

Hmm!  Well, it's true that neither Touga nor Saionji gets catchphrases like Juri's "power of miracles" or Miki's "shining thing."  From his conversation with Touga in the Akiomobile, though, it's fair to say that Saionji is looking for "something eternal" -- an interesting parallel between his character and chibi-Utena's.  In particular, Saionji's looking for eternal friendship.

Touga is a little trickier.  I think "the power of revolution" is about as specific as we ever get.  (Isn't there a sequence in Episode 13 where we flash between stained-glass windows as Akio narrates what the duelists are fighting for?)  It's consistent with Touga's character to want power just because it's power, without having any particular application in mind.  Having power is obviously always a good thing.  I imagine his internal monologue went like this:

LETTER SEALED WITH A ROSE: Greetings, Kiryuu Touga!  You have been identified as one of the most promising talents in Ohtori Academy.

TOUGA: "One of" the most promising talents?  Clearly I need to fire my agent.

LETTER: In recognition of your promise, we extend to you the presidency of the Student Council...

TOUGA: As expected.  What's the catch?

LETTER: ...and this Rose Seal.  Wearing the Rose Seal qualifies and obligates you to participate in semiregular duels with others who bear the Seal.

TOUGA: This has got to be the most bizarre hoop I have ever been asked to jump through.  I wonder how I can politely decline the Rose Seal and still get the presidency.

LETTER: Becoming Champion Duelist will result in your gaining the power to revolutionize the world.

TOUGA: Did I say "bizarre?"  I meant "kickass."  I'm there.

As for why they're still in their coffins... well, they still have some growing up to do, don't they?  I think both Saionji and Touga grow during the series -- Saionji gains some emotional maturity, Touga gets to feel what it's like to respect and perhaps even care about someone (Utena) -- but they're both still a long way from "adulthood."  Saionji will never find something eternal, and Touga will never gain the power of revolution; they need to find real aspirations to replace these false idols.

Last edited by satyreyes (10-06-2007 02:25:50 PM)

Ah yes, I do remember Saionji saying he wanted something 'eternal' and I also remember him saying Himemiya wants the same (but we all know that's not the case as the Rose Bride had no will of her own and only follows what her master wishes, same with Utena telling her to get more friends), though at times, I wonder does he really care for Anthy? He seems to slap her a lot..

Touga, the rather complicated one who wants world revolution..

Yep, both of them needs to grow in adulthood, good point.. Everyone is in their coffin, at least, all characters in SKU

EDIT:

Oops, Ashnod said Touga's reason already.. n_n

Though I laughed at one scene, one character (forgot who) blames Akio for seducing Touga..

OMG, "SEDUCING"

Last edited by Stephanie (10-06-2007 02:22:32 PM)

Stephanie wrote:

I wonder does he really care for Anthy? He seems to slap her a lot..

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again here, he slaps her out of LOVE!
No, he doesn't really care for Anthy specifically, I'd say, more the idea of someone who will care for him "eternally." Perhaps slapping her was to test how far he could go without losing her love?

satyreyes wrote:

TOUGA: Did I say "bizarre?"  I meant "kickass."  I'm there.

Rember, with great power comes great authority, but absolute power rocks absolutely.

satyreyes wrote:

Isn't there a sequence in Episode 13 where we flash between stained-glass windows as Akio narrates what the duelists are fighting for?

In the shadow play for Episode 34:

The Tale of the Rose wrote:

shadow:  Know ye not of the light?
shadow:  It is that which is eternal, (Green background, Saionji Shadow)
shadow:  shining, (Blue background, Miki Shadow)
shadow:  the power of miracles, (Orange background, Juri Shadow)
shadow:  the power to revolutionize the world. (Red background, Touga Shadow)

Stephanie wrote:

1.) What were Touga and Sainji's wish anyway? Why are they still trapped in their coffin?

So long as they continue to wish for childish things, they can't grow up. Taking the symbology back to its source, child-Utena refused to leave her coffin unless she saw something eternal. Likewise Saionji can't mature until he accepts that there is no eternity in life, only death. (Unless he finds religion?) And Touga will remain trapped in Ohtori so long as he seeks the Power to Revolutionize the World.

Ragnarok wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

Isn't there a sequence in Episode 13 where we flash between stained-glass windows as Akio narrates what the duelists are fighting for?

In the shadow play for Episode 34:

The Tale of the Rose wrote:

shadow:  Know ye not of the light?
shadow:  It is that which is eternal, (Green background, Saionji Shadow)
shadow:  shining, (Blue background, Miki Shadow)
shadow:  the power of miracles, (Orange background, Juri Shadow)
shadow:  the power to revolutionize the world. (Red background, Touga Shadow)

That's it!!!  Thank you.

Going back to Saionji. In the manga his coffin was called "assumption." I don't know what other English words the Japanese original might mean but it seems to include a lot of gullibility and jumping to conclusions.

Touga never finds out the name of his but it's implied that since he is almost out of it anyway it doesn't matter.

The simple answer for the car symbolism would be adulthood and responsibility, I'd say. When you come of age, you can start driving, having sex, going to war... All that neat stuff.

When someone takes a ride in the Pimpmobile, they start out with Akio, the adult, in the driver's seat. After they come to a realization about what they want and are depurified, as it were, Akio vacates the driver's seat, symbolizing that it is their turn to take the wheel and be the grown-up.

I mean, there's more to it, but you'll have to wait for one of our expert analyzers to show up.