I'm popping in here late after skimming the past five pages, so apologies if I restate someone's point or miss a grand revelation.

I can understand Shiori, and will agree that she is a very "real" character -- repulsive to some as an ideal is always more appealing than a character that can possibly be related to, that can remind you of the skeletons in your own closet.  She seems to react on assumption in her interactions with Juri, defaulting to the worst case scenario (which must be retaliated by doing something just as terrible as her perceived situation) and then feels extreme regret when she realizes how much of it was overreaction.  She is painfully insecure, but has enough (misguided) self-respect to cause her to attempt to assert some sort of authority when she feels threatened -- which seems to be quite often.

I'm of the school that believes Juri to have been a much, much happier person before the Shiori incident -- someone so genial and innocent would be most hurt by such an attack, and would lack the facilities to move past it.  We can assume that this was Juri's first true trauma, hence why, in her deficit of experience in how to just deal, she undergoes a complete character overhaul and spends three years wallowing in her masochism.  When assailed with feelings more intense than any you had previously, you're bound to choose them as your focus over the now-dull everyday cares of the past.

What I think needs to be considered, though, is the potential that Juri's behavior towards Shiori upon acknowledging her love for the other girl may have been misconstrued by Shiori as some sort of dismissal, prompting one of her customary retaliations.  The Juri we see in the series is a skilled escapist; someone mentioned that she distracts herself by means of many activities, and we see her outrightly ignoring those who attempt to have an effect on her.  And truly, her idealism of Shiori -- turning away from the real girl and into the memory in her locket -- shows an extreme level of childish fantasy, a character keepsake retained from her naive past.  Is it then that hard to believe that, once she realizes she loves Shiori and that just being around her causes her emotional confusion, she wouldn't start becoming at least somewhat emotionally distant?  Factor in her interactions with the nameless boy and it could definitely appear to Shiori that she is being dismissed in favor of a romantic interest.  Almost everyone who progressed into adolescence with a close friend has had the fear, if not experience, of being passed over by that friend for another.

I'm confident that, by the end of the series, the two are able to move past, if not at least acknowledge and come to terms with, their bad habits, and begin to rebuild their friendship.  I don't believe they enter a relationship, though -- Juri loved Shiori the Ideal, and having since rid herself of that projection it seems she would be more content with simple friendship.

A Day Without Me wrote:

This calls for a chart!

Please! Touga gives it away for free.

Nanami is more brotherinfatuated than brothersexual. She rejects Touga's sexual advances and likely would reject Miki if he tried the same thing. (Of course Miki never would, but it would be funny to see him try.)

A Day Without Me wrote:

This calls for a chart!

Juri = Shiorisexual
Touga = whore
Utena = princeonawhitehorsesexual
Mitsuru = Nanamisexual
Nanami = brothersexual (I'd like to mention that I include Miki in that, since he is someone's brother, and Nanami seems to like him a little throughout episodes 4 and 5)
Miki = attractsmalepedophilessexual
Saionji = virgin
Akio = trysexual
Shiori = ifJurimightlikeitI'lltakeitsexual
Kozue = ifit'llannoyMikiI'llgoafteritsexual
Keiko = Tougasexual
Mikage = Mamiyasexual
Nemuro = Tokikosexual

This is now my main SKU reference chart, we should totally put it in the wiki. It make everything so much easier!

Tamago wrote:

Don't forget these characters:

Chuchu = Onion Prince-sexual
Shadow Girls = non-sexual
Anthy = Can become anyone's fantasy
Wakaba = Still in 'Class-S' relationship with Utena

Yeah, my list is by no means exhaustive. I left out Mari for instance. Dunno how I managed to leave out Anthy, though.

I do consider Wakaba to be straight, actually, despite her insistence that Utena is her boyfriend. I see her hanging on Utena as... I don't know how to phrase it, really, but that "dating" Utena is a safe way to try out relationships - Utena would never hurt her, so it'll all be alright. If Utena reciprocated, I'm not sure Wakaba would be ok with it any more, since then it wouldn't be as safe.

Hope that makes sense.

You mean there are girls who don't think that boys are icky?

Well girls don't think Touga's icky but he has very pretty hair.

This messageboard is very educational, isn't it?

Actually, it is. I've learned more about the interpretation of symbolism here than I have in any literature class I've ever taken. Of course, I don't seem to have ever taken a good literature class.

brian wrote:

By a ratio of "screen time" to amount of discussion she elicits Shiori may be the most popular character of all.

She gets one of the best lines in all the 39 episodes, "You should have told me, I would have given you a better picture."

That thought occurred to me as well; Shiori is definitely not a main character, but passions tend to run high around her.

But, to be fair, Shiori gets almost all the good lines. My heart skips a beat every time I hear her say:
"Jealousy, Juri? It's not very becoming."
Her voice chills me to the bone. And I love it.

Plus, ALL her scenes are twice as emotional as others who followed the same path. Her elevator scene blows the other Black Rose Duelists out of the water. Her sword-drawn-from-Juri scene pwns all other sword drawings. And when all the other "Akio cars" crash, you don't see the brides inside sit back up and talk again. She managed to work an argument and some crying in there too. All despite the fact that she could have very well DIED from the crash. Barely had a scratch.

Last edited by dollface (12-07-2009 06:02:37 PM)

brian wrote:

A quick question: is Class-S relationship a synonym for Girl Crush?

Kinda, Class-S is more like practicing.  When some girls don't feel ready to date real boys yet, they might consider a tomboy as a subsitute and practice some of the basic boyfriend/girlfriend things with that girl.  Its usually seen as just phase.

dollface wrote:

Having the obbsession with SKU that I have, I've seen it in its entirety in Japanese, Englsih, and French. It acctually has a pretty good dub, considering how terrible most dubs are. Shiori's voice was perfect, in my opinion.

Despite having watched Utena so many times that I can recite the Japanese as well as the subtitles, I usually tend to stay away from the dub. Other than the mispronunciations, I generally don't mind the dub very much, and Lisa Ortiz is my favorite voice actress. However, Ruka's voice is the only one that I have a problem with, which is why I haven't watched it recently. I'm always reminded of the narrarator in a certain Final Fantasy VII video... "Mmyes."

Yes, I'm pretty sure that he does speak with an accent in Japanese. Kanae speaks with an accent, if I'm not mistaken, and her mother. (Kanae's mother's voice in English is another one that annoys me. She sounds like someone that is about my age trying to sound like an older women, and failing miserably.)

The way that each character's way of speaking differs is actually pretty interesting. Utena and Juri both use masculine terms, even though they're girls. Anthy and Kanae both use very formal language, what with Anthy being Anthy, and with Kanae's being brought up in a very rich family. Nanami speaks very formally at times, and informally at other times. Kozue and Keiko both use girlish terms. Shiori's manner of speech is normal. When it's appropriate for her to speak formally, she does so, and when it's appropriate for her to speak informally, she does so.

Ruka's dub voice sounded like a man attempting a very exaggerated Katharine Hepburn impersonation.