This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top08-10-2009 01:27:04 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8282

The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

We all know that the Seitokai (Student Council) is the catalyst for the Duels that Akio set up. It's also commonly accepted fandom that, since the Duels failed, Akio tries a mulligan on that particular play in post-series fics (new council members, new Rose Bride, same cliched story that doesn't taste quite as good as the original). Each of the characters holds a position one would expect in a governing body that sees to the welfare of students at private or elite schools (president, vice-president, secretary, treasurer -- those would be Touga, Saionji, Miki and Juri respectively). That seems all well and good...except...

...do student councils in real life (mostly Western ones -- the Ohtori setup could be common to Japanese schools for all I know) really act that way? Who really makes up the members of a student council -- the students, the teachers or the parents? How many people does one need for an effective council? What is a student council generally bound to do, whether by mutual agreement or personal charter?

See, I've never been to a private school, and my middle/high school was anything but ordinary, with a student body of perhaps 120 individuals and a faculty staff of perhaps 10 (counting administrative staff and counselling). Thus, I'm really curious to see if others, especially Americans, have had a student council at any school they attended, and what their councils were supposed to achieve by what means.

Please share your knowledge with me! Also, feel free to discuss the SKU Seitokai as a whole and what they should really be doing instead of playing with roses and pointy things.


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
Razara's Postulate: For every lover of lesbians out there, there is an equal and opposite attraction to Dippin' Dots.

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#2 | Back to Top08-10-2009 02:54:09 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2354

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

I was on my middle school student council, and we certainly didn't act anything like Ohtori's. There was one representative from each class in the school, and a lucky few were elected to be officers. The way the meetings went was that some of us brought up issues we were concerned with, which in middle school was stuff like complaining about the dress code, and the officers decided which was the most important issue to work on at the time. Then various members would suggest how to deal with it. 

   When we weren't complaining about school rules we were telling our classes about fundraisers. Oh, and our secretaries were constantly quitting because they couldn't take minutes quickly enough. Miki would have been ashamed. emot-tongue


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#3 | Back to Top08-11-2009 01:33:44 AM

ArsenicForBreakfast
Pathtracer
From: The Destination of Your Fate
Registered: 10-14-2007
Posts: 340
Website

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

I was never on the Student Council in school, but I knew a few people who were and learned some stuff secondhand (I went to public school, mind, so Your Mileage May Vary)

In middle school, the council was technically run by the teachers who volunteered for it.  They would sit in at the meetings, which was more of a free discussion amongst the students who attended.  Part of the meetings might involve students suggesting field trips or events, but the teachers would take care of all of the details.

In high school, the council functioned more like Ohtori's, with a President, Vice President, ect.  There were several Treasurers, but no one took minutes, as far as I know.  The students had the actual responsibility for setting up events once the teachers/principal gave them the OK, and they did fundraisers and the like.  The best thing they did, though, was picking new themes for "Spirit Week", since Pajama Day and School Colors Day got old very quickly.  The best one by far was Cross-dressing Day.  We had our fair share of Utenas running around, let me tell you.  Of course, some wet-blanket parent complained about it and it never happened again, but it was fun while it lasted.


I'm a fan of pessimism: if you maintain the lowest expectations possible, they'll always be met or exceeded.

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#4 | Back to Top08-11-2009 10:02:54 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

There is a student government in my college. There are two major groups that always contested with each other, (excuse me for sounding offensive) but one is all Jewish, the other all Muslims. How that came to be I do not know. All I know is nobody ever bothered to vote when it was election time. This shown how much the student body cared about their school, and so did I.
One thing my college has in common with Ohtori---our clock tower on top of the library also looks like a penis, but a very short one.....emot-rolleyes

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#5 | Back to Top08-12-2009 12:42:56 AM

Syora
Presidential Accoster
From: Under Northern Lights
Registered: 06-07-2009
Posts: 1866

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

Student councils were non-existent in my high school/jr high. We didn't have a class president either, just a valedictorian. In my university though, there is a Student's Union that does liaison between students, the faculty staff and the university staff. They get the OK for events, clubs, and fundraisers. However, like Itsuke, the University of Calgary is shits for school spirit, and we are mostly apathetic about our school because it's so god damned big and we all feel gouged for cash and good teachers. Union members are elected but no one votes and we never see any differences in policy. None of the student's platforms seem meaningful or interesting either. I have no idea what caused what, or if it really is just one vicious cycle. Perhaps the Student's Union also has no pull with the faculty members as well.

I transferred to another university, will give updates when I start there! But it already seems better, so who knows? Perhaps I will get a rose signet when I chop off Touga's testicles?

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#6 | Back to Top08-13-2009 03:41:48 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

Only one highschool I have ever even had a Student Council and about the only thing they could do is offer suggestions about things such as school events and the tuck shop and maybe the teachers might take up the suggestions or not, so no power of any sort.

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#7 | Back to Top08-18-2009 01:10:09 PM

Anthiena
Egghead
From: ...the space between your ears
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1108

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

There was a student council at all three of my high schools, but only once did I ever see one in action. I was nominated for President, but only got three votes. I was the gag canidate. emot-rofl Wasn't there some shock rocker who kept running for Prime Minister and always lost badly? Like that guy, I was. It was all very informal, seeing as there were about thirty seniors that year, but only six seniors the year before. It was a tiny school.


...but yeah. Some schools have powerful student councils-some even fired teachers.

Last edited by Anthiena (08-18-2009 01:11:44 PM)


I stopped seeking to be sought after. That wasn't being true to myself.
I want to become someone who can exercise power. I want to become a prince. - Ikuni

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#8 | Back to Top08-20-2009 04:18:27 PM

Nights1stStar
Ballgoer
From: Clawing Out of Her Coffin
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 157

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

My current high school Student Council's biggest worry is getting prom set up properly. Nothing as vast or even as cool as "perpetuating world revolution." emot-biggrin

The thing about the Dueling Student Council is that whatever they embody, they embody it 100%. Miki's the artist searching for a muse, Touga's the playboy, Juri's the suffering Prince, and Saionji is the insecure criminal fighting for control. The narrative of the story allows us to see inside their heads, so we understand their thinking and personalities in ways it's hard to comprehend real people. I'd use the word "archetypes" to describe them, except there's something "paper-doll-like" about that term, like we care more about their symbolism and stereotypes than the actual characters themselves. (Come on, like you don't love at least one of them...)

On one hand, the Student Council's characterization makes them larger than life, so we end up loving them, but on the other, it's also easier to understand their flaws...so we just end up loving them even more. cool

Regular student councils though, we can only interact with on a mundane level. Some of them are nice and smart, some of them are dumb and terrible, but in my experience, real life student governing bodies actually seem...flatter, than this fictional one.

(Is a testimony to the brilliance of RGU, or a sign of my ever-growing nihilism, that I view these animated, 2-D characters as having more depth than my acquaintances?)

Basically, one's a group of passionate students trying to break free from wordly restraints who make the air around them crackle with tension just by being in the same room together. The other...holds bake sales. It's hard for me to compare them with any kind of fairness, because one's just people you know from your peripheral day-to-day-life, and the others star in one of the most epic anime series of all time.


"To copulate is to enter another...and the artist never emerges from herself."
-Charles Bauldelaire

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#9 | Back to Top08-20-2009 04:20:25 PM

Nights1stStar
Ballgoer
From: Clawing Out of Her Coffin
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 157

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

Anthiena wrote:

Some schools have powerful student councils-some even fired teachers.

Were they private schools with kids from powerful families?


"To copulate is to enter another...and the artist never emerges from herself."
-Charles Bauldelaire

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#10 | Back to Top08-21-2009 12:57:33 PM

Setsuna
Tragedian
Registered: 02-25-2009
Posts: 1370

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

I was on it from elementary until freshman year. Guess what? All we did was sit there and eat lunch every Tuesday and Thursday inside. I wish ours was awesome/totally fucked up like that and really wished Touga was the head of it, but it was just me and some other kids(maybe 5 others). Just sitting there. Then we all got free T Shirts and sat on stage during announcements. What a waste. emot-gonk

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#11 | Back to Top08-22-2009 11:35:43 AM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2507
Website

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

At my high school, our student council was pretty much a popularity contest, except for the fact that only the people who were running cared. I also think at least my class' entire student council was flamboyantly gay. They were always trying to be everywhere and all YAY US, despite all the NOTHING the entire group ever did. I think they sold class T shirt no one liked, and that's about it. (My sister says its basically the same thing there now as well.)

My college has a student government. I was in it for some reason one year as the interior design representative. (A girl I sat with in class made the ballots, and just PUT ME ON IT since she had only two people running for representative, and didn't think it was enough competition. People presumably voted for me because my name was exotic, because I was a first semester freshman and knew NOBODY.)

I always had to go to the damn meetings that they always had in the DAMN morning, and spent a large deal of the time praying. It was customary to vote yes for anything, and while I was there, we made a ruling to provide chips, salsa, salsa music, and dancing ladies. ...I don't see why this cost $600 since everyone has chips and salsa, half the people have salsa music, and almost every damn person here can dance. But whatever.

At the end of the meeting, when they had a free floor, one of the sorority's representative stood up, and asked the speaker, "When are they gonna turn the river back on?"

I swear to fucking god.

Everyone was muffling laughter, the speaker was just like "HOW THE FUCK DO I ANSWER THIS" and said something like "When god decides he wants it back on."

She was like "Well I don't think that's a very helpful answer."

I never went to another meeting. Nobody knows about our interior design, but we're all assholes, and they didn't know us anyway.

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#12 | Back to Top08-27-2009 08:27:58 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8282

Re: The Ohtori Seitokai and Real Life Student Councils

If memory serves me right, when I was attending that middle/high school I mentioned way back in the beginning of this thread, the students were all LET'S MAKE A STUDENT COUNCIL and juuuuust as they were about to finish tallying the votes, the counselor (who we all hated with bloody rage) came in and said REJECTED I DON'T THINK SO TIM and basically nixed the whole thing on the basis of academic subversion.

And in our school, the only faculty member with more power than even the principal was the counselor (who is now the principal, from what I've heard from my buddies back in that hellhole).


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
Razara's Postulate: For every lover of lesbians out there, there is an equal and opposite attraction to Dippin' Dots.

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