This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top02-17-2015 12:47:12 PM

BlueRoseTree
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 10

What if Anthy and Dios/Akio are one person?

(Apologies if this has been talked about already.)

It crossed my mind that since people's personalities in stories often get split into separate characters to symbolize various things like their dynamics within the mind - for instance the little angel/devil miniatures of a person whispering into their ears from either side when the person is making a tough moral choice, or the Good Godmother/Evil Stepmother dichotomy in fairytales (because a biological mother being selfish and antagonistic to her child is taboo) - maybe Anthy and Akio can also be interpreted as representations of various drives within the same person?

In that light, the person would have started out as someone genuinely kind and altruistic (Dios), or a case of a people pleaser, which more often happens to women due to the social conditioning & expectations but can apply to anyone who tries to help out everyone else and expects nothing in return. With time, though,  as can be predicted, they get worn out and depleted of their vital powers, and grow disillusioned with the idea of making everyone around happy at the cost of personal sacrifices, because as it turns out it only makes people take their services for granted and endlessly demand more. So the people-pleaser gets sick of playing the noble Prince and decides to quit trying to save everyone else's asses and redirect their energy to some much-needed self-care (young Anthy). Thus the selfless idealist (Dios) morphs into a jaded cynic (older Anthy), and their princely self becomes a mere ghost, or a memory of their lost innocence.

But since everybody was used to have the prince come to their aid whenever they needed him, and now the free service is denied, the crowd flips out and instead of gratitude for the past favors and maybe some favors in return, the former Prince gets shit (the Swords of Hate) and is called the bad guy (the Witch) for the "selfish" refusal to give more of themselves than they can. Further disillusioned by this reaction, they choose to embrace their badness (Akio), however at the same time they keep beating themselves up with the feeling of guilt (Anthy and another meaning of the Swords of Hate).

Such interpretation might explain why the Prince's younger sister (=him/herself) was the only person who couldn't be a Princess because the definition of a Princess is someone who gets rescued from a plight, and if you're being the ultimate altruist then you mustn't care about yourself - only about others.

And the Power of Dios would then be the Prince's initial enthusiasm and genuine faith in what he chose to do, lost/sealed away when he grew too tired of people's ingratitude. Older Anthy's passive-aggressive mode of operating stems from her resigning her (outward) agency to Akio (the evil Self), or maybe from the fact that once her selflessness (Dios) was sealed away = the energy got redirected to taking care of one's own needs (Akio), she did become a special case of a Princess, at the cost of being hated by everyone? Then in the end Utena was able to access/release the Power of Dios = restore some of Anthy's faith in humanity because finally someone selflessly came out of their way for her sake?

What do you guys think?


go fave my Utena fanart at http://nitrofieja.deviantart.com/

Offline

 

#2 | Back to Top02-17-2015 10:07:42 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
Website

Re: What if Anthy and Dios/Akio are one person?

Hi BlueRoseTree!  I love your theory!  I myself have always seen Anthy and Akio as being two sides of the same yin-yang symbol.  And Akio did say in EP 39 that he felt Anthy's pain with his own body, so it's definitely possible that they are in fact one emot-wink


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#3 | Back to Top02-19-2015 05:56:15 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: What if Anthy and Dios/Akio are one person?

Wow, that's really well thought out!

I definitely see your points about Dios/Anthy/Akio being like an evolution of one personality. It makes sense to divide them up that way. The one point that I'm not sure about, though, is that if Akio is the evil Self, why is he punishing Anthy for him not being the good self? There's something there that keeps just escaping me, like... if he's evil, why would he still want to be good? If he does still want to be good, why would he punish Anthy? That doesn't help him in his goal. It doesn't seem quite enough for it to be just general self-punishment-- that seems way more like Anthy's sphere, but throughout the series we see Akio treating Anthy like shit time and again. Gio and I tend to interpret it as his way of keeping her close to him and under his sway, but that seems to only work if it's two people, not two parts of one person.

I don't think this breaks the analogy at all, I just think there's something there that needs more explanation to fit properly, and I really want to hear your thoughts!


Hat Mafia Member: Ratchedface
Je vais mourir pour l ' a e s t h e t i q u e
Internet Atrocity Tourist             -           MY POSTS             ARE WARSHIPS

Offline

 

#4 | Back to Top02-20-2015 05:38:28 AM

BlueRoseTree
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 10

Re: What if Anthy and Dios/Akio are one person?

My guess would be that Akio and Anthy are shown as separate characters precisely because they represent the conflict inside the original person: on one hand, the decision to embrace the Bad Guy persona and do things for your own benefit because people aren't worth your being kind to them (Akio), but on the other hand, your youthful idealism might not be entirely dead yet (Dios) and it makes you despise yourself for what you've become (Anthy). Plus you can remember what awesome potential to do great things you used to have, back in your early days (the Power of Dios), and you wish you had it back, but alas, you can  only do great things when you have that innocent faith - that's why Akio could never get anywhere near the Power of Dios because he was the antithesis of a Prince, and that's why Utena could. (But did she *get* the Power, or did she just *rekindle* it in Anthy? I lean towards the latter interpretation.) Also, Anthy & Akio being the same person explains why they have just one soul sword between them.

As for why Akio is nasty to Anthy... I've always seen their relationship as mutually abusive, Anthy having as much hold on him as he had on her. Only that he went more for the physical abuse (yanking her arm when she hesistated for a moment before coming into his tender embrace, allowing bride-beaters like Saionji into the duelling game) and she went for the psychological ("Goodnight, Onii-sama" - "Why do you keep tormenting me?"). That is not to say that I believe in the shitty explanations of domestic violence ("Oh he beats her because she won't stop nagging and provoking him, they're equally bad!") but in this case I do think they're equally nasty to one another, in different ways but for the same reason: self-hate. Note that in the end it turned out that Anthy could have walked out on him anytime had she chosen to, and her only problem was that she lacked what it took to make that choice. (That is not the case with most real-life abusive relationships because the victim is in the greatest danger from the abuser when she/he chooses to get away, there are often factors of social isolation and economic issues  involved etc. Whereas Anthy just packed her suitcase and left at her earliest convenience while Akio could only shout after her from behind his desk.)

Or more specifically, instead of a loving relationship between siblings (which would represent a normal, unconflicted person, and would be redundant for such), they have this love-hate between them that is the source of them being portrayed as separate characters. They do love each other, albeit not in a healthy way, because no one can exist without at least a trace of self-love to drive them to exist on.
However, the Akio self doesn't want to be good, and the Anthy self hates him for that - for not being Dios anymore. Akio looks derisively (as well as patronizingly and nostalgically?) to the no-longer-operating Dios self, and hates Anthy for her longing for Dios, like a husband hating his wife for still having feelings for her high school sweetheart. And he hates Dios like a bad person might hate a good one for them being everything that the bad one isn't.

One more thing that in my opinion hints at them being possibly one person is the incestuous sex between them. It is there to drive home the idea that their once-healthy relationship has gone the wrong way, too far, twisted etc. It illustrates that the dynamic has changed from innocent cuties caring for each other to one of a pair of sadomasochistic lovers, with all its trappings, and partners in crime (Bonnie and Clyde?). That's why Anthy calling Akio her Dear Big Brother* right after they had sex counts as twisting the knife in his wound because it is meant to rub it in: you used to be such a wonderful person and look how low you've fallen, you sister-fucking devil wannabe. In other words, this person is beating themselves up in the quiet of their mind's privacy.

*: it's worth remembering what is implied between the lines with all those Japanese social stratification markers. Older siblings are by definition higher in the hierarchy than younger ones and it is reflected in the very fact that there are different words for an older brother/sister and a younger one. If you're higher in the hierarchy, you are privileged and allowed to talk down to your juniors but you're also expected to do the job of looking after them, acting as their mentor, protect them and so on. The -sama suffix can indicate great respect but also adoring uber-familiarity. Now look how it came out in the beginning: Dios was the big bro (the stronger part of the personality? the one who made all the decisions?) but he did not protect Anthy, ie failed his job as the main pillar of the mind. Instead, Anthy ended up protecting him, at a great cost to herself (mental breakdown from disillusionment? feeling like shit for sticking up for yourself because you wanted to be 100% perfect in your selflessness?). And now we've got Akio who is an abuser and all kinds of bastard but nominally still the big brother to look up to - isn't it a hilarious piece of gallows humor?

Last edited by BlueRoseTree (02-20-2015 05:46:01 AM)


go fave my Utena fanart at http://nitrofieja.deviantart.com/

Offline

 

#5 | Back to Top02-20-2015 06:42:18 AM

BlueRoseTree
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 10

Re: What if Anthy and Dios/Akio are one person?

Hmmm I just got another idea, or two.

If Anthy x Akio are aspects of one person, what happens after Anthy walks out on Akio? Now I think he should die/disappear/become a mostly-powerless ghost of the same sort as Dios, because the person decided to give up acting on the impulses from the evil side of their personality in the same way as they once gave up to act on what their good side told them to. Hence the movie Akio if we consider the movie a sequel to the show: a pathetic, inefficient thing that (like Dios in the show) turns out to be long dead anyway - and yet that zombie manages to keep Anthy from progressing/growing up, so maybe the movie Akio represents her moral hangover from what what she did back when he was alive/active as part of her?

And now I start wondering whether Anthy might be THE person, and both Dios and Akio and then the movie Akio aren't so much parts of her as symbolic representations of her motivations? I know it's far-fetched but what if she was the only mastermind behind the whole Ohtori puppet theater and Akio was as much of an illusion cast by her as Mamiya was? The question to follow would be whether she knew that Dios and Akio were her mind's projections, or if she was unaware, but since we're talking symbols here it wouldn't matter so much. (I still prefer the first interpretation of even split between the personality parts.)


go fave my Utena fanart at http://nitrofieja.deviantart.com/

Offline

 

#6 | Back to Top03-07-2015 05:26:32 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
Spam Arsonist
Registered: 06-08-2011
Posts: 88

Re: What if Anthy and Dios/Akio are one person?

I've heard a number of theories positing that SKU is just Anthy's internal conflict, with all the events playing out inside her head. In that case you could say that the Student Council members represent various social forces impinging on her consciousness, Akio is her alienated shadow self that keeps her trapped in stasis and Utena is an emanation of the hopeful, optimistic part of her consciousness that acts to restore her balance.

As for the movie as sequel to series theory, I wrote a post about that a while back:

http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?p … 35#p233135

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement