Gio, you are amazing.

NOW WHO WANTS SOME CURRY???



I made it myself...

Wow! I never noticed Miki's can was closed, while Mikage's was open!!! These little details are what keeps SKU at the top of my list. Thanks again, Gio!

I'll ask for Anthy analysis as well. She is so skilled at keeping a straight face, that I live for the moments when she betrays herself and shows some emotion.

ShatteredMirror wrote:

Ragnarok wrote:

I do agree that Juri wants Utena to wipe Touga's smirk off his face. Maybe even more than she'd want to do it herself.

We never see Juri's response to Utena's wearing the girls' uniform. Perhaps she disapproves not only of Touga's tactics but of the effect it had on Utena.

Ooo, so right! That goes on my "deleted scenes" wishlist.

Hm, you may be right. But I am interested in an analysis of the few seconds that we see her offering up the sword.

Ivy-chan wrote:

I think she gave Utena the sword both as a gesture of support and also to help even the odds between Touga and Utena. (Something tells me she would have attempted to fight Touga with a bokken.) More: 'go and knock the smile off his face for me' rather than 'I'm awful sorry for hitting you'.

I've always assumed this was the case, but since everyone's requesting, I'll go over that shot soon. I don't recall anything coming out and hitting me in the face about it though, so we'll see. Also I'm sorry I didn't post here yesterday (or much at all), I was having a very bad day. I'm a little better now after a bottle of carmenere, some sourdough, and port salut.

For now...ANTHY! As promised. Anthy I will cover a lot more when I get to later in the series, since that's when her body language opens up a bit and gets fun to read.

In just about any analysis of Akio and Anthy's relationship, we (rightly, for the most part) harp on about how bitter and vicious the two are. How there's more love at a klan rally. How they would like nothing more than to tear the other's guts out with their teeth. Not much is ever said about anything that could be construed as 'positive', and we also tend to assume their relationship was always as openly hostile as it is later in the series when the pink haired wedge is shoved between them. I have always assumed their working relationship was actually quite decent, all things considered, before Utena got too present in things. Most of my support for this is secondary, and just deduction from what I know of their characters, and can imagine springs from necessity when you spend eternity dealing with someone. Some of my support for it comes from this:




Let's first cover the instinct factor. This is the first facial expression I've discussed so it's where this really comes to light. It's easy to think with all my yammering and details about hip direction and closing the torso that body language is merely a calculation. Body language is about instinct. We're not built to know all these details I'm explaining, we're designed to understand and speak the language without knowing the grammar. And the first thing I do, before I note where the hands are, before I check dilation of the pupils, is note the immediate gut reaction I have to what I'm looking at.

Forget you know who the character is, where she is, or what she's looking at. How does her expression appear to you, when you remove all the informational baggage we're carrying? There's something strangely peaceful about her. A calm satisfaction you see in paintings. Satisfaction that looks...possessive, perhaps. My first thought was of the way people look at a hard-won prize, after the giddiness and shock has worn off, and it becomes less about the prize itself and more about how much you kick ass for obtaining it.

The bottom line? There's nothing in her expression here that suggests she's not pleased to see Akio, or that she'd prefer to be somewhere else. After analysis, this doesn't change. After I tore apart the pose, the eyes, the mouth, Anthy was still quite pleased to be there.

Let's pick up the informational baggage. She's looking at a lover. Her brother. Someone she doesn't love, but is nevertheless bound to. But she's not thinking in those terms at the moment. She's thinking of how he's bound to her. Remember that possessive satisfaction? Her eyes are closed as she turns, and she does not completely turn before she stops and looks at him. Possessive; she knows where he will be, of course, but such an open display of that knowledge? She's looking at a possession and thinking 'Ah, right where I left you.' She removes her glasses before she checks to confirm that. This is a mental marker she uses to note a change in her surroundings. It's like when you get home from work, most of us have some ritual that takes place to mentally mark the change in environment. Though we've already walked through the door and dumped the mail on the kitchen table, we don't note that we're home until we've, say, kicked our shoes off. Anthy doesn't make an effort to look at Akio until after this ritual, which is here most likely meant to mark the setting aside of their usual performances. Strangely, less about her undressing herself in any way than 'undressing' Akio. Had she looked before this, perhaps she would have seen the trustee chairman, or her loving brother, or some other ridiculous charade they keep up around others. But she sets all of that aside and then looks at him.

Anthy doesn't turn to face him completely. In her body, this is a possessive gesture. When you turn and face someone and truly face them, it's both a challenging gesture (suggested preparation for attack) and a display of intimacy, because in the suggestion of attack, you're also accepting they could make the first move. There's consenting vulnerability in people when they face each other fully, and Anthy is not doing this. There's no intimacy, but that's because there's no challenge. There's no challenge, because Anthy is looking at something she's quite sure is hers, and has stayed hers, and it doesn't need to be reminded of its place. He's not a dog that might run off. He's a sculpture, or a book. An inanimate object that can't challenge a person's ownership of it.

Which brings us to what it means that she doesn't fully turn her face to him either. Allow me to suggest a situation where you'll see a lot of it and no doubt do it yourself. Go to an art museum. Very often a person inspecting a piece, especially a piece that appeals to them, will turn their head away a little as they do so. This is very different from the disapproving half turn you get from someone looking at a piece they dislike, it's a person looking at the piece from several angles, critically, but out of interest in fully appreciating the work. Anthy does not turn her head this way and that to get all angles, but she doesn't have to. It's her object and she knows it well; there's no inspection here, just appreciation.

The appreciation we also see elsewhere. Her eyelids are lowered a little. Not falsely or deliberately though, but like she's relaxing her eyes, which naturally lowers the eyelids a hair more than we typically keep them. Try it. This is appreciation for something familiar, enjoyment without the need to take in as much as possible. (Consider in contrast how Touga's eyes widen drastically when he sees Utena in the dress. Appreciation without possession, a sense that if he doesn't see all of it right away, he'll miss his chance.) This relaxing the eyes is where I got the impression she looked peaceful.

Anthy's lips are also drawn in a calm smile. Lips are telling in SKU, since there's a 'normal' way they do it, and that's very not what they did here. There's a complete line, drawn not to suggest thickness (as they normally do), but to show us the shape of her smile. It's not a wide smile. There's no giddiness or excessive enthusiasm here, just a calm, passive pleasure. A wider smile, however, also would have been unable to account for all the bad she sees, but this expression in its entirety, though it completely lacks any sense of displeasure in and of itself, is not an ignorant look. She doesn't see something she's idolizing or attempting to improve in her thoughts. She knows he's a shit, and they hate each other, etc, etc, but she's enjoying him anyway.

What she's enjoying...well. All that possessive satisfaction of something that's yours and unable to get away? We can account for the unable to get away, and the possessive. Satisfied? Why not? All else aside, there's one thing we know the guy's good for, and it's what she's about to go get some of. Though their sexual relationship is fueled by a lot more than lust, that certainly doesn't mean there's no lust there, and nothing in their situation suggests we're to assume they're not sexually attracted to each other. Why wouldn't they be? They're both gorgeous creatures, and I think it's safe to assume they're rather good at getting the other off.

In short: Anthy looks at Akio whoring it up on the couch and goes '...I'd hit it. In fact, I think that's exactly what I'll do. '

Oh this got lengthy. I hope it made sense, it's hard to explain for me because she's so blasted subtle about everything. I think I'll do Saionji or Touga next, since they're subtle like sledgehammers.

Superiority. "You poor little creature, but by all means, continue this."  I think there's a defenite sense of posession and knowlege of what's to come (extremely good sex.)  It's the way her two eyes don't match, and the way her litlte satisfied smile doesn't quite touch her eyes.  Although her eyes are half closed, the one eyebrow is slightly raised in amusement, as if to say "How pathetic my big brother is!  How adorable, but, none the less, I get something from it."

Am I the only one who doesn't view their relationship as... well, so openly nasty and ugly...? I dunno, when I came into fandom I was really startled at how people thought they were ripping each other apart all the time -- not that they aren't, necessarily, and not that their relationship isn't completely based on view that they're each possessions of each other, but I really do see a lot of very, very twisted love involved. I didn't think it was so completely hostile, in other words.

Remember that scene towards the end, where Anthy is gasping in pain over the swords and Akio says, "In pain, Anthy? It's not my fault" -- I personally thought the angry anxiety in Akio's voice was genuine. I haven't examined Akio like I should so maybe I'm missing something glaring, but Akio does seem to me to be genuinely sorry that Anthy is basically a human pincushion. Not sorry enough to keep her from being said pincushion in his stead -- he definitely cares exponentially more about himself than her -- but still. His behavior towards the whole situation is resentful to the extreme, even accounting for the fact he knows Anthy does it willingly and even enjoys it to a degree. I dunno, maybe I've totally bought the lie.

Also, can I put in a vote, if it's applicable, to analyze a few of the pictures of the cast naked, set against the background of their theme color? I mean this series: http://www.ohtori.nu/gallery/maison/Alone30.jpg I found them all very telling. They're not a part of the series, so they may not be fair game, but it's worth a shot. And hey, they are naked...

Last edited by Syna (01-11-2007 11:17:06 PM)

Clarice wrote:

...yeah. I love their relationship. I eagerly await Gio's take on it.

My god that's a whole other gigantic thread. I agree with the takes above, except that I am very hesitant to use the word love. It's loaded and a lot of the association baggage doesn't apply. They don't love each other as brother and sister, or as lovers, or as friends. I think if you could use the word love, it would be as the love one has for their favorite possession. Anthy and Akio both suffer in some way to keep the other around; Anthy's more obvious, but Akio spends his life running in circles placating her just enough to keep her from running off. They're each other's spoils of war, for better or worse, waged ages ago against the people they so easily cut now. There is definitely an attachment there, but love, I'm not so sure. That's more possible with Anthy, Akio's definition of 'love' as he would be able to experience it is so far removed from how we use the word that it throws you off in any analysis of him.

I agree though that there's a lot of depth in their relationship that's easy to mistakenly deny them credit for. They hate each other, and they have good reasons for it, but day to day I don't think they have such a hard time with each other. We assume they're always like they are later in the series, which I find hard to believe given how bad Akio is at taking it. These first few episodes, we don't see victims and that seething hate yet. It's all possessiveness and attraction, and if you can't call it love, at the very least it's something powerful enough that they've lived with each other for centuries and still value their possessions.

I might not be able to write an analysis today on account of sleeping in and getting to work late. Was such a miserable dream, too.

Edit:

Syna wrote:

Also, can I put in a vote, if it's applicable, to analyze a few of the pictures of the cast naked, set against the background of their theme color? I mean this series: http://www.ohtori.nu/gallery/maison/Alone30.jpg I found them all very telling. They're not a part of the series, so they may not be fair game, but it's worth a shot. And hey, they are naked...

You certainly can. A lot of the series artwork I wouldn't attempt to read too much into, but in the case of that series of shots, and the colored ones of the student council, their poses are meant to illustrate the characters. Which is why I'm so bitter about Akio and Saionji not getting any love in that set. I'll put those on the list.

Well just god damn blow my mind why don't you.

Actually, the first time I saw that scene, my immediate impression was that there was something rather...sexual, about it. (By the way, Akio becomes nude as well, there's a quick moving shot where suddenly his arm is bare.) I kinda dismissed it since it seems unlikely to me, given they never bothered to symbolize the act itself before. Now that I think of it, though...she arches her back, does she not? Ever had a bad cramp? Kicked in the kidney? All the kinds of trauma I would suggest for being remotely like being stabbed with swords result in curling up, not arching. It's not the natural reaction to pain to further expose the body part that's hurting...

To be honest I've never come up with an answer to that scene that satisfies me. Or at least not an answer I can't as easily support some other way; it's incredibly ambiguous. Enough that I can explain it twenty different ways without changing my interpretation of the characters involved. It's just an analytical mess.

Lightice wrote:

Well, throwing your head back is a classical gesture for any great, usually negative, emotion in theatrics. It can express great agony, as well,although no-one would react like that in real life. It's quite often seen in animation.

Is it? Interesting... (I'm not very familiar with theatrics.) I do know the throwing head back as exasperation, but that's something I kinda doubt's in play there. I certainly don't dispute that she's in pain, but that they'd choose that particular reaction to it, theatrical or not, seems kinda suggestive. One of those 'okay it's A but it's supposed to remind you of B' situations that pops up in the series. You know. Like this one. We know it's the Sword of Dios and she's blessing it and blah blah blah. Not what it looks like, and we're supposed to realize that.



I really need to watch the scene with a more critical eye. I remember Akio appears to be frustrated and he grips the steering wheel like he's almost having difficulty with controlling the car. An odd problem for him to have given he drapes his fingers casually over the wheel while burying the needle all throughout the rest of the series. If you wanted to draw sexual conclusions from that, it wouldn't be difficult. Perhaps I'll cap that scene tonight and analyze the body language here.

For now though, I owe you guys some Juri holding the sword out for Utena in episode 12. I'm cramped for time, but this is a pretty easy shot.



The argument I had gone with is that Juri's motivation in providing a (her, note) sword is that she's like 'kick that smug jackass off the arena platform plz'. That would be supported pretty thoroughly by her expression here. The other simple explanation was that she was one way or another instructed to provide a weapon by Ends of the World, but this seems unlikely, since in that case she would have treated this as a necessary function, something to do earlier in the day instead of waiting until Utena's on the way to the arena. It's almost spur of the moment, like Juri went home, thought for a moment, and decided to help Utena kick Touga's ass.

Juri holds the sword out straight, and her fingers are tight around the hilt. The gesture is almost suggestive of punching it toward Utena, a display of power and an offering. Juri invests an idea of power in what she's presenting Utena. She doesn't think of it just as a sword, or she attributes more power to the weapon than just sharp metal. It's what Juri thinks Utena needs to win.

Her expression is just pure determination. Her lips are drawn tight, it's not a frown, but rather the muscular stiffness of intensity. There's no way to animate it in the SKU style, but this expression would be accompanied by a tightened jaw, and in a real person, you'd be able to see the masseter muscle in front of the ears bulge a little. We don't need that cue though, we have her lips, and her eyes, which are open fully, but not wide-eyed, because her eyebrows are drawn down sharply. Again, in a look of determination and concentration. There's a hint of anger in the degree of determination she's exhibiting, but it's without focus on the person she's looking at. We're looking at determination brought on partly by anger, but not anger on its own. It's simply something that has bothered her enough to act strongly in rebellion against it. Whether that's Touga being a jackass or Juri wanting Utena to stop being girlygirlgirl is up to interpretation.

I believe that's Tatsuya.

First a back track
Correct me if I am wrong but at the climax of the BR arc we see Mamiya change into Anthy and I believe she has a similar serene goddess-like gaze. More than once we see them as sibling gods doing what sibling gods often do -- commit incest.  No bourgeois hangups for them. They seem to almost enjoy flaunting the petty morality of lesser people. I believe that only Utena disturbs that serenity.

SIMULTANEOUSLY they are riding the car together each suffering in their own way from the hatred of the world. That car ride has been going on for eons.

If Anthy arched forward it would look more natural but then we couldn't see her face. I noticed that in Japanese she groans more softly.

Juri.
I wonder if Juri isn't trying to minimize the chance of Utena performing another miracle. If she wins with a better sword, that makes it less miraculous. Really though I think Juri is showing a flash of femine solidarity plain and simple. If you want to be un-simple perhaps Juri calculates that SHE has a better chance against Utena than Touga in the end, although I don't think that's a likely scenario. It does seem like Utena is everybody's second choice.