"I just don’t see what making him extremely feminine-looking is supposed to add to his character outside the initial “ugh”-type reaction."

I always do credit these kinda andro-phobic male fans as the main reason why SKU never did got the overwhelming popularity it so deserves.

MikoGalatea wrote:

To be fair, I recall Haruhi thinking much the same thing in the series itself. It's been a while since I watched it, though.

Being that I cannot stand a story focused upon those largely shallow male leads, combined with the fact that the female lead strikes me as being even more bland than the MP characters, makes this series a pass for me.

Is trying to watch Star Driver, but ends up largely disappointed.  Just WHY is it that neither Ikuhara nor Yoji could replicate SKU's stunning level of characterization in their other shows?!

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (08-11-2012 06:20:30 PM)

BlackBeforeRed wrote:

it could have been so much better emot-frown

MP is like a D color diamond that got cut wrong, thus never got to shine as brightly as it otherwise should (if I'm the plot writer, I'll throttle the character writer).

That being said, there's this Penguinbear project thing coming up, so let's hope it IS a sequel and/or reboot, and that the creative team can get it done right this time.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

On Ouran: the harem thing is not what bugs me the most.  The show lost me immediately with the boys doing something so ego-filled and contrived as that hobby host club idea.  I can understand boys who need to do it for a living in actual clubs, but for priviledged kids to invest vast amount of $ and time to do this just to show the world how sexy they really are (and don't tell me this is therapy to girls in need, it's pure ego at work) . . . it just makes them shallow and affected from my POV.

shutin, although Ouran is presented that way at first, later on in the series you learn more about Tamaki's true intentions for starting the club and why the hosts are involved in the first place, which are much sweeter and deeper than what they initially appear to be. (At least, if I remember correctly!) In my opinion, it is a worthwhile series if only for its comedy and its mocking/loving of common shoujo conventions, but it is certainly not for everyone.

As for the topic of this thread, I judge Utena to be a better show simply because of the effect that it had on me vs. Penguindrum. I grew attached to the Utena cast, and their joy and suffering was felt, in a small way, by me as well. The Penguindrum characters seemed devices more than actual people, and its plot was not nearly as engaging to me as Utena's. I also feel as if the core of Pengiundrum, the Sarin Gas attack, was buried beneath, rather than held up by, the metaphor, characterization, and style.

Though it may just be me "not getting it", as is often the case!

Last edited by Crystalline_Dream (08-12-2012 09:25:34 AM)

Well, I'll definitely admit to Haruhi being rather bland. Many other characters outshine her by far. And I'll have to agree with your skipping Ouran too. If you weren't hooked at the outset, I'll tell you that the "ego-stroking rich kids" spiel does not go away (though it is somewhat toned down).

gorgeousshutin wrote:

The 95 Sarin attack was an actual tragic event - why dilute its impact with frilly fanfare when the crew could simply use the drama that's already there to move us viewers?

YES. THIS.

Lurv wrote:
that was kinda my problem with Adolescence of Utena

Yeah, SKU movie cannot stand on its own without TV series knowledge, it's like this for fans only AU . . . though my personal peeve with it was that it was not a sequel (which I've been hungering for through all these years).

BlackBeforeRed wrote:
I have high hopes for PenguinBear, hopefully it shines like the diamond Penguin Drum was supposed to be

See this:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=4 … mp;show=80

Though, a spin-off is very likely. The line on the site reads, ”Find it out without mingling with the transparent storm,” hinting towards one.

Lurv wrote:
...I'm kind of picky about art styles ok.

me too, lurv, I remember only liking "mature-seeming" artstyle in anime, examples of which (in the 90s) were the Petshop of Horrors and Please Save My Earth OVAs.  I almost shied away from SKU because it was done in an ultra-shoujo artstyle I LOATHE . . . which goes to show just how SUPERB the show's characterizations are that I love its characters even today.

Davine Lu Linvega wrote:
it mops the floor with just about any other anime that's come out in the last 10 years. Penguindrum deals with issues most Japanese popular media won't touch with a ten-foot pole

This I can agree with: most post 2000 anime series have unmemoriable/incomplete plots on top of bland chars, Penguindrum is still much better than those.

That said, it would be great if they could join on another project

Me speaking via Shouma's voice: If there is a God who listens, I want to ask him this: can you PLEASE bring Enohiko into the PENGUINBEAR PROJECT?

Honey Bear wrote:
Very disappointing. emot-frown

While a harsh critic, your points are all valid and true

If they are now really gonna do a spin off for Penguindrum with this Penguinbear thing . . . can they not do a spin off for Utena, which is a FAR superior work?  There are NUMEROUS non-Utena, non-Anthy main characters whose ending leaves you guessing what's to become of them . . . how about a focus on any of the student council, or maybe even a focus on post graduate Mikage?

Oh well . . .  one can always dream.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

can they not do a spin off for Utena, which is a FAR superior work?

BlackBeforeRed wrote:

At this point, the way sequelitis has hit, it could happen. Not too likely, but I was thinking about this a few days ago. Hipster Culture x Cult Classic + Unoriginality in current media x Sequelitis + Ikuhara back in business = possible Utena reboot?

On one hand, I'd love to see a Rebuild of Utena of sorts, but on the other, I'd be worried about how it'd be handled and whether or not it could end up getting screwed up. Would all of Be-PaPas be brought back together to create it? (Since we've been pondering exactly what magic formula with the creators made SKU so great in the first place.) What new things would be brought to the table in such a way that fans of the original will stay happy? Who would voice Utena now? And so on.

Two more criticisms of Penguindrum, which I hope will be the last from me:

1. Fairly niggly one, this, but the overuse of catchphrases from certain characters got on my nerves. I'm sure Sanetoshi could've gone through one episode without saying "Isn't it electrifying?", for example. It all just screamed MAKE A MEME OUT OF ME!! to me.

2. Mario. Talk about wasted potential! Given that he had a penguin hat and even went "Survival Strategy!" at one point, I thought he was going to be significant and would have some connection to Himari or something, but nothing was done with him and he wound up having little purpose other than to be his big sister's motivation. It's like Honey Bear said about the series in general; much of the buildup didn't really amount to anything. (Ironic, considering it's such an oft-repeated phrase in the show itself.)

BlackBeforeRed wrote:

MikoGalatea wrote:

1. Fairly niggly one, this, but the overuse of catchphrases from certain characters got on my nerves. I'm sure Sanetoshi could've gone through one episode without saying "Isn't it electrifying?", for example. It all just screamed MAKE A MEME OUT OF ME!! to me.

See, this one is a little strange, because it actually reminded me of Utena. They both just loved their arc words (Can't you feel the throb of the engine? ) some were good, and made me laugh. But I think a good bit of it comes from Ikuhara's love of repetition (I'm assuming it Ikuni, since he's the common ingredient here) They both use repetition to their advantage, to make the most impact out a scene.

I guess the repeated phrases came across differently to me. SKU's arc words were mostly matched with stock footage that happened to reinforce the timeless/ritualistic aspects of those scenes, so they never bothered me. Actually, I should add that I don't have a problem with, say, "Survival Strategy!", because that sequence was like Penguindrum's answer to Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku. I think it's just Sanetoshi's catchphrase that annoyed me because it felt like he kept saying it for the hell of it, hence me thinking that it was hoping for meme-hood.

Last edited by MikoGalatea (08-13-2012 05:13:06 PM)

I like PD just as much, if not a tiiiiny bit more than Utena. I'm not sure why, exactly. There was a sense of excitement to it that I've never gotten from any other anime before. Maybe it's because I watched it live?  I was invested in the characters, even if they weren't as layered as Utena's cast.  I loved guessing where the plot would go, and the ending touched me.

Unbiasedly, Utena is the better show though. I feel it was more coherent than PD.  Plus PD had pacing issues, when I was first watching it I was getting sick of all the Ringo episodes.  I still don't really like them when I rewatch - probably because I never really warmed up to Ringo.  Because of all that time wasted in the early episodes, it seems like there wasn't enough time to wrap everything up. Even though the first arc of Utena isn't my favorite, it felt more necessary than episodes 3-8 of PD.

But I still love PD, regardless of it's flaws.

I already complained about it, but what disappointed me most was the lack of subtlety. Because when I started to watch I thought it would be as subtle, if not more so than SKU, so the sledgehammer was an unpleasant surprise.

...On the other hand I kept thinking "that diary can't really be that special. When will we find out what the REAL Penguindrum is?" so I guess the diary being magical was quite a twist for me (another one being that the lady ginger wasn't a lesbian), but I think I would have been more engaged if I had cared about the diary and its owner from the start.

Of course, if I gave it another chance, I could probably find things with it that I liked better than SKU, but the first time I was quite annoyed. Right now the only things I can think of is that I like the style a bit more (except the noses!!!!), and the comedy is funnier. It's also funny to me that that reviewer complained about Sanetoshi's design, because I loved it.

Last edited by Lurv (08-14-2012 02:17:08 PM)