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Gougai! Gougai!

GUYS GUYS I JUST UPLOADED THE 1997 UTENA MUSICAL IN HIGH DEFINITION straight from the Japanese Blu-rays! i am now very tired goodnight

Also, our Secret Santa is going on! Come join in the fun!

#1 | Back to Top09-26-2017 09:43:38 PM

anthy_himemiya
Saionji Slapper
From: Jacksonville, FL
Registered: 08-05-2017
Posts: 20

Utena/Anthy and homophobia

I want to preface this thread by clarifying that I absolutely do NOT think that anyone who does not view Utena/Anthy as a couple is homophobic. I agree that given the context of the series, their relationship is subtle and can really be interpreted either way. No, what I don't understand are people who get SO offended when you insinuate that Utena/Anthy are more than friends. I remember back in the early 00's, like 2001 or 2002, posting on a Utena forum and talking about my opinion that Utena/Anthy were in love and I was immediately attacked by a bunch of people who were all "OMG, how dare you! They are completely straight and nothing more than friends! You must be some lesbo obsessed with her sexuality to even suggest something like that!"

I also remember during this time period, the owner of a Sailor Moon site, I think it was... She wrote some huge rant going off on people who liked to ship same-sex couples that weren't canon and included Utena/Anthy in this, going on about how "OMG, HOW DARE THEY MAKE STRAIGHT PEOPLE GAY!"

I mean, here's what I don't understand. A piece of art is generally open to interpretation, especially one as ambiguous and symbolic as Utena. So why aren't people allowed to interpret Utena/Anthy as a romantic pairing if they so wish? It isn't as if there absolutely isn't any basis for it in the show, and even Ikuhara has said that he intended for them to be a couple in the TV series, just wasn't able to be as overt with it as he would've liked. (That said, I do think Saito mostly intended for them to be viewed as just friends in the manga.)

However, I feel it necessary to note that most of this happened during the early 00's. I've noticed that since then, feelings about homosexuality have changed in general and people are a lot more open-minded. When I see people debate Utena/Anthy and the nature of their relationship nowadays, it's a lot more mature than what I saw back then. But still, I was a bit shocked and even offended back then by some of the reactions I got.

Last edited by anthy_himemiya (09-26-2017 09:45:37 PM)

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#2 | Back to Top09-27-2017 01:13:29 PM

Empress_Arcana
Ohtori Paramouri
From: omnipresent
Registered: 07-22-2016
Posts: 95
Website

Re: Utena/Anthy and homophobia

Damn, that's some sad but interesting insight on a section of the fandom back then. emot-frown Which forum was that?
I've definitely noticed a huuuuuge amount of people support Utena x Anthy now (including myself). In fact, I think a lot of newer fans got interested because of the gay subtext (also including myself, but I stayed for more than just that).
I agree as well that other interpretations of their relationship are valid; hell, if someone wanted to say they were just friends in the big lesbian romp that is the movie, I could still see that. The way the franchise uses sexuality as more... er, sometimes more than just blatant sex appeal helps support that interpretation. And also because everybody sleeps with everybody in this darn series.
It's interesting to hear what the fandom was like back in the day, even if some people were immature. I joined in 2015, so it's kinda like a history lesson, hahaha emot-biggrin


"You don’t have to bend the whole world. I think it's better to just enjoy it. Pay your dues... and enjoy it. If you shoot an arrow and it goes real high... hooray for you."
- Dorian Corey, Paris Is Burning

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#3 | Back to Top09-28-2017 10:30:30 AM

purple-riot
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 08-02-2017
Posts: 12

Re: Utena/Anthy and homophobia

Wow that's rough. Also it's so strange to imagine that now. By now it's swung so far the other way that it can seem like suggesting they AREN'T a couple is a controversial view. Either way, it's kind of a shame, since I think that ambiguity is a strength of their relationship and the series in general.

Anyway, I guess it was a different time. I do remember many years ago internet fan communities being a bit like that. It probably didn't help that the people most visibly supporting same-sex relationships in their fiction of choice tended to be big yaoi shippers.


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#4 | Back to Top12-02-2017 06:06:57 PM

wlwutena
New Student
From: FL
Registered: 12-01-2017
Posts: 4

Re: Utena/Anthy and homophobia

Honestly!
It saddens me to think there are people who don’t see Utena and Anthy as a couple, honestly, Ikuhara himself sees them as more than friends and I think even Chiho Saito, although she wrote them as more platonic, wrote them as being hinted to having a deeper relationship in many scenarios. Especially the movie manga, considering how explicitly gay the movie is haha.

I don’t really mind people’s headcanons and opinions, it’s up to you to decide how you view their relationship, but they have such a good and compelling one. Sucks to miss out on it lmao. My worst moment was talking about RGU at an anime store in front of my very homophobic mom. The clerk mentioned Anthy and Utena’s relationship and I feigned ignorance so my mom wouldn’t be pissed at my interest and I keep having war flashbacks bc I probably seemed like a homophobic idiot I just was avoiding getting in trouble. Meanwhile I’m a closeteted lesbian. Funny how that works

Anyways! I agree with everything u said. Don’t know why people get so offended over it?

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