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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#26 | Back to Top03-06-2017 09:02:15 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Zerokohai wrote:

I figured almost anything dubbed - at any time, ever - should be disintegrated by supernova explosion and the resulting matter/energy fall into the subsequently forming black hole, never to be seen or known by the outside universe ever again.

I've taken the liberty of correcting your statement. You're welcome. school-eng101

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#27 | Back to Top03-06-2017 02:42:42 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2788

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Aelanie wrote:

Zerokohai wrote:

I figured almost anything dubbed - at any time, ever - should be disintegrated by supernova explosion and the resulting matter/energy fall into the subsequently forming black hole, never to be seen or known by the outside universe ever again.

I've taken the liberty of correcting your statement. You're welcome. school-eng101

I'll never really understand that sentiment, other than as an extreme personal bias. (Particularly, given the prevalence for dub-titling back when, but also given that subtitles alter the audience experience as much as anything will and perhaps, in many cases, more so.)


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#28 | Back to Top03-06-2017 11:10:03 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

And I've never understood subjecting oneself to an objectively worse and secondhand version. You can say whatever you want about personal preference, but Japanese voicework, which in that country is a serious and highly competitive profession, is superior both due to the extensive training that actors receive and their recording methods; Japanese actors perform together, listening and responding to each other in real time, and have the freedom to ad-lib and tailor their delivery in concert with the animators, whereas with dubs the actors record alone, out of context with other speakers, and with strict limits on the timing and content of their delivery. The results are obvious and to be expected.

Watch enough anime and you will learn conversational Japanese such that the subs are only an occasional guide - and one in which I routinely note the omissions, imperfections and contradictions. I have done translation work on yuri manga and have strong views on the nature of "localization", believe me.

Howeer I will admit that with Utena, my stance is particularly extreme, because in fact it was watching Utena that fully and irrevocably converted me to Japanese audio. Prior to Utena, very early in my anime-watching career, I would always watch the dub first, intending to watch the subbed version later but rarely doing so. The dubs were a crutch, a training wheel. However, when I bought Utena, I was aware that it was "serious, important anime" and I resolved to watch it properly, the way it was intended to be seen. So I did, and the skill and emotive power of the Japanese actors made that very much a defining experience for me. I have never gone back since then - except occasionally to listen a few seconds at how much worse, more wooden and insincere a dub track inevitably is.

Last edited by Aelanie (03-06-2017 11:12:31 PM)

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#29 | Back to Top03-07-2017 05:05:18 AM

malna
Caretaker
From: Poland
Registered: 10-03-2011
Posts: 209

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Aelanie wrote:

And I've never understood subjecting oneself to an objectively worse and secondhand version.

Aelanie, do you think there's any way you could trim your posts to make them sound less like you are arrogant and severely demeaning of other people's opinions and preferences as a rule?


a lot of hope in one man tent

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#30 | Back to Top03-07-2017 06:20:33 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

There is nothing arrogant or demeaning about that statement, which is a factual representation of my strongly held views on the subject. If you took offense to it that is your issue - motivated primarily I suspect by my castigation of your pet character Ruka in another thread.

DD knows me well enough, I hope, to know that my opinions are passionate but that no personal slight or attack on her was meant. We have a long history of mutually respectful disagreement.

Last edited by Aelanie (03-07-2017 06:23:35 AM)

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#31 | Back to Top03-07-2017 07:14:23 AM

malna
Caretaker
From: Poland
Registered: 10-03-2011
Posts: 209

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

That's a "no" then.

On a side note, your old chum DD is a male. Sadly, I can't claim to know him well so for all I know he may indeed not take offense. I do.


a lot of hope in one man tent

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#32 | Back to Top03-07-2017 11:11:44 AM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Kids, if you don't shut up, I swear I will turn this car around!

In all seriousness, let's draw the line here, please. I'm not getting involved. Take your off-topic argument elsewhere.

Last edited by Zerokohai (03-07-2017 11:16:13 AM)


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#33 | Back to Top03-10-2017 09:15:51 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Yes, please start or find a thread where the dub talk is on topic, and the personal remarks can be left out.


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#34 | Back to Top03-25-2017 03:57:42 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

And now we return to your regularly scheduled shitposting.

Wakaba's Flourishing

Buying pictures of someone? Is that a thing? I can't believe Saionji has fans even within the Utena universe. Man, that teal jacket does not work with his swamp green hair. I love those sheep mugs! Saionji has feelings for Wakaba? There's a pairing I didn't see coming. Get out, background character! Someone find the song that plays during this scene! I want to see 'SKU but every time Utena scores in basketball the characters speak only in NBA Jam quotes'. Who are those interchangeable nerds? I can't get enough of this show's evening colour scheme! Wow, Wakaba gets up to a lot! Pick up that slack, Utena! Only when I see Utena stretch do I realise how obscenely long her legs are. Ok, Utena, you can get out of that crab walk position. Get over yourself, Touga. Oh, yeah, Anthy's a character in this show, isn't she? Look at that, another untranslated locker sign! Utena, git your sword! Kick her ass! There it is, that song again. Someone please find it.

Look at that, the next episode is about Nanami and her lackeys, and it's called Troublesome Insects. Well played.


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#35 | Back to Top03-25-2017 05:00:41 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Buying pictures was indeed apparently a thing back then. I'm guessing it's not now, with the advent of social media making it just stupidly moot. When this came up before it wasn't clear whether this was a real and common behavior in schools in Japan, where hero worship is kind of very much a thing, or whether the social climate was so slanted in that direction that it rendered the idea not at all strange to viewers.

The gist of it, was that we weren't supposed to act totally shocked or confused that people would do that. emot-confused


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#36 | Back to Top03-25-2017 05:25:25 PM

Kita-Ysabell
Covert Diarist
Registered: 11-18-2012
Posts: 818
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

If the song you're asking about is the one that plays in the Counseling Elevator of Doom and Dead Children, I have a version of it called Mitsu no Naifu, which when not horribly not-translated probably means "Poison Knife" or "Knife of Poison".


"Et in Arcadio ego..."

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#37 | Back to Top03-25-2017 05:42:36 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Nah, it's the one that's similar to Kokoro no Dice, in that it's a chill piano track.


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#38 | Back to Top03-30-2017 01:12:54 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

GUESS WHAT MY PHONE JUST RESET ITSELF AND MY ENTIRE POST WAS GONE WHAT'S UP DUDES TIME TO SUMMARISE

Troublesome Insects

I don't see what those girls see in Nanami at all. I also don't see how Touga's appearance is such a big deal. It feels like Utena and Anthy have been written out altogether. Akio seems really nice. Just batter Touga with the umbrella while he's off guard! Man, Nanami, just fuck off. Yuko and Aiko are awful as well. Keiko's battle uniform is really nice! Why's Anthy holding an umbrella? I agree with Keiko about Nanami. And there goes another tertiary character. Who's next? It's soul crushing to see Keiko revert back to Nanami's idiot sidekick, visibly incapable of free thought or individuality. Oh, she's a pathological liar, or so says Anthy.

Next time: plot advancement? Maybe!


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#39 | Back to Top06-01-2017 06:55:29 AM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Oh jeez, it's been two months, huh? Good thing I wrote myself these summaries. I'll jump back in within the next few days now summer's began for me.

Sorry for the topic bump, pals.


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#40 | Back to Top09-28-2017 04:24:44 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

ahahaha I'm bad at this aren't I

Nemuro Memorial Hall

Well...that was a lot of information to be forcefed in one episode. I think Souji went from least interesting to most interesting character in the show in the span of an episode, but something tells me it'll not last. I am, however, interested to know exactly what was gained from the Ohtori barbecue at the end of the flashback. That blinking hand icon pointing at things was frustrating, but perhaps I'm missing the point. I think a while ago, I mocked the Black Rose arc for having episodes with primary characters being completely absent, but in this episode, I don't mind so much. That said, I do wonder if an extended flashback like this could be viewed as cheap exposition rather than quality world building. Perhaps least surprising, the more I see of Akio, the more handsome I find him.


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#41 | Back to Top09-28-2017 05:20:24 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 62

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Qualifications of a Duelist

Trust SKU to end an arc climacticly and anticlimacticly. It's somewhat disappointing to see Mikage have all of this character development be thrust upon him at the last minute only for him to seemingly be written out of the series at a moment's notice. Even worse was that his associate, Metal Anth--I mean Mamiya didn't actually exist at all? That's the kind of bullshit I'd expect SKU to pull, and yet I still find it unsatisfying. All of this buildup over the arc, all of these characters being roped in to Mikage's scheme and the only outcome is it made Akio look more important. I do hope the next (and final, I believe) arc shows at least some consequences from the Black Rose arc, otherwise IMO what'll end up being the highlights of the BR arc are the stuff like Saionji living with Wakaba, or Shiori reuniting with Juri. Now that I think about it, maybe that isn't so bad. For a sh� jo (or a sh� nen) to have stronger character interaction than main narrative/action is pretty cool, in a way.

Speaking of action, perhaps unsurprisingly, the fight in this episode seemed to have overall better animation than a lot of the previous one, though we still can't escape that POV shot of Utena lunging towards you. The fight as a whole felt far more kinetic than most in SKU, where a lot of fights devolve into flashing colours and slideshows. It felt like Utena and Mikage were actually responding to each other's attacks instead of swinging and leaping around like lunatics, as in other fights.

I know I've ragged on this episode hard for pretty much wiping this entire arc out of relevancy in some aspects, but I really did enjoy watching it (even if I felt the Nemuro flashbacks got a bit tiresome by the end). I will praise the BR arc overall for being less obvious with its 'protag systematically beats everyone up' plot structure compared to the Student Council arc, which almost felt like watching a fighting game arcade mode ladder. However, if what comes next follows the same basic pattern, I will be let down.

Oh, the next episode is a Tsuwabuki/Nanami episode? I'll make like Mikage and write myself out of life.


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#42 | Back to Top10-02-2017 10:18:45 PM

Crabe
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 07-22-2017
Posts: 11

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

The next episode is my least favorite in the show sadly. It has some funny moments here and there, but it's a pretty dry clip episode (with some extra bits). If you feel like dying in the middle you can skip it with no consequences as it just recaps all the Nanami episodes up until that point.

The ending to this season is definitely strange, it does make sense but for reasons I can't speak on. The best is yet to come, the third season is definitely the best one IMO.

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#43 | Back to Top10-05-2017 02:17:38 PM

Empress_Arcana
Ohtori Paramouri
From: omnipresent
Registered: 07-22-2016
Posts: 92
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

I actually love the next episode emot-redface But it is skippable.
And I agree with Crabe, the next arc will rock all of your socks off.


"You don’t have to bend the whole world. I think it's better to just enjoy it. Pay your dues... and enjoy it. If you shoot an arrow and it goes real high... hooray for you."
- Dorian Corey, Paris Is Burning

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#44 | Back to Top10-05-2017 08:02:34 PM

anthy_himemiya
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 08-05-2017
Posts: 16

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

I consider episode 24 to be pretty much the worst in the entire series.

I've grown to appreciate the Nanami filler over the years, as I think they actually add extra depth to the characters. (Cowbell of Happiness, for example, adds extra layers to Anthy's character that we might not have otherwise, and Namami's Egg is a funny, surreal and poignant episode in its own right) But that's one that I feel doesn't really add much of anything, plus it's a clip episode and not a very good one.

And yeah, the last arc is amazing. You shouldn't be disappointed. However, I still love the Student Council and Black Rose arcs myself. Especially the Black Rose arc, pure psychological horror.

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#45 | Back to Top10-06-2017 12:34:37 PM

Llarian
Miki Molester
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: 04-14-2012
Posts: 34
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

I love this thread.  Yes please.


What's the point? Art is so useless. It's such a waste of time!
And it's not like anyone else ever wastes time. It's not like you spend hours in front of the television or the computer accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Oh wait.

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#46 | Back to Top10-08-2017 08:12:10 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2788

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

anthy_himemiya wrote:

Nanami filler

I'm still unconvinced those are "filler" episodes. They're incredibly thematically relevant, at the least, but they tend, also, to highlight some of the broader fantasy elements and the naivety of the cast, which we otherwise are often encouraged to ignore/just go with.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#47 | Back to Top10-12-2017 05:26:13 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

This Duelist Bible thing I'm scanning describes a lot of those episodes as 'Intermissions' and I think that's very appropriate. They are definitely thematically relevant, but also provide something of a breather from the pace of the developing story. A breather that isn't necessarily provided by the recap episodes. emot-rolleyes


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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