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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#76 | Back to Top05-07-2017 06:34:06 AM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 175

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

Holy fuck I just realized that I like movie touga more then cannon touga. Never imagined I would think that.


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#77 | Back to Top05-08-2017 04:21:42 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

That's not really an unpopular opinion. Most people miss or overlook how manipulative and underhanded Movie Touga is being and cast him as a tragic hero, unlike in the series where it's much more blatant.

Admittedly, even I think he's better than he is in the series, but "better" still doesn't mean "good". emot-tongue

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#78 | Back to Top05-09-2017 01:19:15 AM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 175

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

Aelanie wrote:

That's not really an unpopular opinion. Most people miss or overlook how manipulative and underhanded Movie Touga is being and cast him as a tragic hero, unlike in the series where it's much more blatant.

Admittedly, even I think he's better than he is in the series, but "better" still doesn't mean "good". emot-tongue

When I meant like, I meant is a better character. But still I didnt know it was a popular opinion... Guess Im just too new to the fandom emot-biggrin

Last edited by itavin (05-09-2017 01:19:40 AM)


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#79 | Back to Top05-09-2017 08:30:57 AM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 170

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

itavin wrote:

Aelanie wrote:

That's not really an unpopular opinion. Most people miss or overlook how manipulative and underhanded Movie Touga is being and cast him as a tragic hero, unlike in the series where it's much more blatant.

Admittedly, even I think he's better than he is in the series, but "better" still doesn't mean "good". emot-tongue

When I meant like, I meant is a better character. But still I didnt know it was a popular opinion... Guess Im just too new to the fandom emot-biggrin

Movie Touga, from what I'm thinking, is as self-motivated and centered as he is in the series. The thing is that there's an air of self-awareness and a melancholy that comes from it. Part of it might be from literally dying, but there's a knowledge that series Touga doesn't have, or chooses to ignore.
The series had his motivation be a desire to game the dueling system, but the movie game him a motivation for that; the need to have control over his life after trauma. And that came out as a manipulative playboy student president who does terrible, terrible things in the name of success, or in the case of the movie, a child who literally threw himself towards death just to mold himself as a hero. (You also could argue that Movie Touga is a foil to Utena, but that's something that could be developed in more depth later...)

The thing is that according to Youji Enokido [~•~], both Tougas have the same backstory. Would giving TV's Touga the Movie's backstory change him? Probably not. He'd still probably do the dumb things he does with that smirk of his. To quote a show I probably should watch more of: "cool motive, still murder." Putting a backstory to it all in a format where you have more time to experience the characters might muddle what it was trying to show with him: that in all, he's pathetic, but it's only noticeable if you actually took a close look at him. Personally I enjoy that because it does put him at the same level of Saionji, and to be honest, I would watch a 2 hour epic that's just the two of them being dumb idiot teenagers together. It's telling that the movie skims through Saionji to the point that he's just savage, then not there, and then somewhat chill and friends now somehow. The focus was elsewhere, but it still took me for a minor loop.

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#80 | Back to Top05-09-2017 12:20:13 PM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 175

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

zeedikay wrote:

Would giving TV's Touga the Movie's backstory change him? Probably not.

I would argue otherwise. You see, if it was his backstory his motivation for revolution could be too break off his traumatic past as well as being the reason he is so homophobic and obssesed with women and sex, because, and you have to admit it in the series, touga likes dude's. to some degree at least, he does sleep with akio and saiomji multipel times, and was his sex pa... I mean his rose bride. Thats why when he gets to fall in love with utena, he is so obsessed with her cause she can pray hs gay away, and as such break free from his past life. If this wasn't his backstory then his motive or reason was to be a rich kid who got everything but the moment he got nothing he was all like

Touga wrote:

Im depressed cause someone is better then me emot-frown

IN the movie tho he was more harsh on himself then in the series. There he wanted to die, because of his terrible parents and rapist stepdad. He and utena also dated probably to cheer each other up over there lost of parents, but utena became overly dependent on him, making him more miserable. He then jumped into the water to save juri, as she is the one women who wont love him, and sacrifices himself to not only become an ideal prince to utena, the one thing he couldn't be, but also to leave the adult world which he curses.

So no, movie and tv are very different. both in personality and motives. One is a dumb jock with too much money and one is a horribly depressed child who suicides. And in the Tv series if you change the backstory, He is a different person. People can have similar personality's with different backstory's (Shinji from eva and yuki from future diaria) or have similar backstory's or conflicts with different personality's (misato from eva and Rebecca from crazy ex girlfriend). Know you wouldn't call them the same know would you emot-wink


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#81 | Back to Top05-09-2017 01:03:29 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2788

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

I'm not sure Movie-Touga is a person any more than MAkio is a person.

These aren't necessarily self-actuating ghosts, so much as what haunts other people who are very much alive.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#82 | Back to Top05-10-2017 03:54:24 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

Indeed, DD. In my examination of Movie Touga, I touch on that very possibility, although I tend to view it more as that he is in between being 1) a specter shaped entirely by Utena's memories and views, and 2) an independent being. He still has the memories of his childhood, things Utena could not know about him, so he is definitely the spirit of the Touga who once lived, and has active plans and weapons that even Anthy did not anticipate - but, as I point out in my exam, Touga died as a child, and never was the tall, suave, and cynically manipulative man he is in the movie. I think the case is strong that he has been formed into that at least partially by Utena's bitter and resentful feelings toward his "abandonment" of her.

Anyway, it's all in here.

Last edited by Aelanie (05-10-2017 03:59:34 AM)

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#83 | Back to Top05-24-2017 06:22:43 AM

Anthiena
Egghead
From: ...the space between your ears
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1107

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

I think Touga's behavior is very consistent with a teenager who was abused as a child. The philandering, the lack of regard, the need for control-these are all things that an abused child often goes through.

And while it doesn't excuse his behavior, I was more were aware that [he was being molested and raped by his "adopted father."]

It's one of the things the movie made clear that they couldn't say in the series.

Interestingly, I think Nanami could grow up to be okay. And that she has changed to something more reasonable by the end of the series.


I stopped seeking to be sought after. That wasn't being true to myself.
I want to become someone who can exercise power. I want to become a prince. - Ikuni

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#84 | Back to Top05-24-2017 06:57:19 AM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 175

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

I actually realized that if the movie BS was true in the tv series, then wouldnt nanami realize something was up. I mean, she is very good in finding abused people ( Anthy and Akio), and she stalks him when he showers, so she would have known right? Also that makes me question why her dad would ask touga to take care of her, or even adopt her, as she can be a potential viewer. It is nice to have movie BS in the series, but it makes too many plot holes.


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#85 | Back to Top05-24-2017 07:52:35 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2788

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

itavin wrote:

I actually realized that if the movie BS was true in the tv series, then wouldnt nanami realize something was up. I mean, she is very good in finding abused people ( Anthy and Akio), and she stalks him when he showers, so she would have known right? Also that makes me question why her dad would ask touga to take care of her, or even adopt her, as she can be a potential viewer. It is nice to have movie BS in the series, but it makes too many plot holes.

Nanami is, fundamentally a naive kid. She's crafty, but, she's... Nanami's egg. Cowbell.

Cowbell should tell you how aware Nanami really is.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#86 | Back to Top05-24-2017 01:58:26 PM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 175

Re: Confess Your Unpopular SKU Opinions Here!

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

itavin wrote:

I actually realized that if the movie BS was true in the tv series, then wouldnt nanami realize something was up. I mean, she is very good in finding abused people ( Anthy and Akio), and she stalks him when he showers, so she would have known right? Also that makes me question why her dad would ask touga to take care of her, or even adopt her, as she can be a potential viewer. It is nice to have movie BS in the series, but it makes too many plot holes.

Nanami is, fundamentally a naive kid. She's crafty, but, she's... Nanami's egg. Cowbell.

Cowbell should tell you how aware Nanami really is.

Ok, yeah. Forgot that she couldnt tell what a cowbell is... Still dosent make sense why she was adopted but yeah, she is naive'r then I thought.


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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