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Anime News Network asked Gio & Yasha to write an article about Utena, Empty Movement, and they totally called us superfans, omg. Think of it as a belated Valentine's to Utena, its fandom, and the excellent friendships we've made along the way. 20 Years of Utena Fandom with the Ultimate Superfans!!!

#26 | Back to Top03-06-2017 09:02:15 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Zerokohai wrote:

I figured almost anything dubbed - at any time, ever - should be disintegrated by supernova explosion and the resulting matter/energy fall into the subsequently forming black hole, never to be seen or known by the outside universe ever again.

I've taken the liberty of correcting your statement. You're welcome. school-eng101

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#27 | Back to Top03-06-2017 02:42:42 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2776

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Aelanie wrote:

Zerokohai wrote:

I figured almost anything dubbed - at any time, ever - should be disintegrated by supernova explosion and the resulting matter/energy fall into the subsequently forming black hole, never to be seen or known by the outside universe ever again.

I've taken the liberty of correcting your statement. You're welcome. school-eng101

I'll never really understand that sentiment, other than as an extreme personal bias. (Particularly, given the prevalence for dub-titling back when, but also given that subtitles alter the audience experience as much as anything will and perhaps, in many cases, more so.)


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#28 | Back to Top03-06-2017 11:10:03 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

And I've never understood subjecting oneself to an objectively worse and secondhand version. You can say whatever you want about personal preference, but Japanese voicework, which in that country is a serious and highly competitive profession, is superior both due to the extensive training that actors receive and their recording methods; Japanese actors perform together, listening and responding to each other in real time, and have the freedom to ad-lib and tailor their delivery in concert with the animators, whereas with dubs the actors record alone, out of context with other speakers, and with strict limits on the timing and content of their delivery. The results are obvious and to be expected.

Watch enough anime and you will learn conversational Japanese such that the subs are only an occasional guide - and one in which I routinely note the omissions, imperfections and contradictions. I have done translation work on yuri manga and have strong views on the nature of "localization", believe me.

Howeer I will admit that with Utena, my stance is particularly extreme, because in fact it was watching Utena that fully and irrevocably converted me to Japanese audio. Prior to Utena, very early in my anime-watching career, I would always watch the dub first, intending to watch the subbed version later but rarely doing so. The dubs were a crutch, a training wheel. However, when I bought Utena, I was aware that it was "serious, important anime" and I resolved to watch it properly, the way it was intended to be seen. So I did, and the skill and emotive power of the Japanese actors made that very much a defining experience for me. I have never gone back since then - except occasionally to listen a few seconds at how much worse, more wooden and insincere a dub track inevitably is.

Last edited by Aelanie (03-06-2017 11:12:31 PM)

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#29 | Back to Top03-07-2017 05:05:18 AM

malna
Caretaker
From: Poland
Registered: 10-03-2011
Posts: 209

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Aelanie wrote:

And I've never understood subjecting oneself to an objectively worse and secondhand version.

Aelanie, do you think there's any way you could trim your posts to make them sound less like you are arrogant and severely demeaning of other people's opinions and preferences as a rule?


a lot of hope in one man tent

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#30 | Back to Top03-07-2017 06:20:33 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

There is nothing arrogant or demeaning about that statement, which is a factual representation of my strongly held views on the subject. If you took offense to it that is your issue - motivated primarily I suspect by my castigation of your pet character Ruka in another thread.

DD knows me well enough, I hope, to know that my opinions are passionate but that no personal slight or attack on her was meant. We have a long history of mutually respectful disagreement.

Last edited by Aelanie (03-07-2017 06:23:35 AM)

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#31 | Back to Top03-07-2017 07:14:23 AM

malna
Caretaker
From: Poland
Registered: 10-03-2011
Posts: 209

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

That's a "no" then.

On a side note, your old chum DD is a male. Sadly, I can't claim to know him well so for all I know he may indeed not take offense. I do.


a lot of hope in one man tent

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#32 | Back to Top03-07-2017 11:11:44 AM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 60

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Kids, if you don't shut up, I swear I will turn this car around!

In all seriousness, let's draw the line here, please. I'm not getting involved. Take your off-topic argument elsewhere.

Last edited by Zerokohai (03-07-2017 11:16:13 AM)


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#33 | Back to Top03-10-2017 09:15:51 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 5955
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Yes, please start or find a thread where the dub talk is on topic, and the personal remarks can be left out.


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#34 | Back to Top03-25-2017 03:57:42 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 60

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

And now we return to your regularly scheduled shitposting.

Wakaba's Flourishing

Buying pictures of someone? Is that a thing? I can't believe Saionji has fans even within the Utena universe. Man, that teal jacket does not work with his swamp green hair. I love those sheep mugs! Saionji has feelings for Wakaba? There's a pairing I didn't see coming. Get out, background character! Someone find the song that plays during this scene! I want to see 'SKU but every time Utena scores in basketball the characters speak only in NBA Jam quotes'. Who are those interchangeable nerds? I can't get enough of this show's evening colour scheme! Wow, Wakaba gets up to a lot! Pick up that slack, Utena! Only when I see Utena stretch do I realise how obscenely long her legs are. Ok, Utena, you can get out of that crab walk position. Get over yourself, Touga. Oh, yeah, Anthy's a character in this show, isn't she? Look at that, another untranslated locker sign! Utena, git your sword! Kick her ass! There it is, that song again. Someone please find it.

Look at that, the next episode is about Nanami and her lackeys, and it's called Troublesome Insects. Well played.


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#35 | Back to Top03-25-2017 05:00:41 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8617
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Buying pictures was indeed apparently a thing back then. I'm guessing it's not now, with the advent of social media making it just stupidly moot. When this came up before it wasn't clear whether this was a real and common behavior in schools in Japan, where hero worship is kind of very much a thing, or whether the social climate was so slanted in that direction that it rendered the idea not at all strange to viewers.

The gist of it, was that we weren't supposed to act totally shocked or confused that people would do that. emot-confused


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
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#36 | Back to Top03-25-2017 05:25:25 PM

Kita-Ysabell
Covert Diarist
Registered: 11-18-2012
Posts: 809
Website

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

If the song you're asking about is the one that plays in the Counseling Elevator of Doom and Dead Children, I have a version of it called Mitsu no Naifu, which when not horribly not-translated probably means "Poison Knife" or "Knife of Poison".


"Et in Arcadio ego..."

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#37 | Back to Top03-25-2017 05:42:36 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 60

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Nah, it's the one that's similar to Kokoro no Dice, in that it's a chill piano track.


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#38 | Back to Top03-30-2017 01:12:54 PM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 60

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

GUESS WHAT MY PHONE JUST RESET ITSELF AND MY ENTIRE POST WAS GONE WHAT'S UP DUDES TIME TO SUMMARISE

Troublesome Insects

I don't see what those girls see in Nanami at all. I also don't see how Touga's appearance is such a big deal. It feels like Utena and Anthy have been written out altogether. Akio seems really nice. Just batter Touga with the umbrella while he's off guard! Man, Nanami, just fuck off. Yuko and Aiko are awful as well. Keiko's battle uniform is really nice! Why's Anthy holding an umbrella? I agree with Keiko about Nanami. And there goes another tertiary character. Who's next? It's soul crushing to see Keiko revert back to Nanami's idiot sidekick, visibly incapable of free thought or individuality. Oh, she's a pathological liar, or so says Anthy.

Next time: plot advancement? Maybe!


http://i.imgur.com/5GUbWA1.png

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#39 | Back to Top06-01-2017 06:55:29 AM

Zerokohai
Mikage Mistruster
From: England
Registered: 07-02-2016
Posts: 60

Re: Initial thoughts from a new fan

Oh jeez, it's been two months, huh? Good thing I wrote myself these summaries. I'll jump back in within the next few days now summer's began for me.

Sorry for the topic bump, pals.


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