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Gougai! Gougai!

Hey I know you have opinions, put them in here! Translation suggestions for episodes 25-39, thanks all for your help!

ALSO!!! After the Revolution is now translated, scanlated, and ready for consumption! Thanks to everyone that's helped out! Ayu, you're awesome. Download here!

#1 | Back to Top02-18-2017 06:00:17 AM

SaigonAlice
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 09-13-2016
Posts: 61

Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?



Part of me wants to physically shake this man for focusing on technical stuff so much. emot-mad


Thân em như quả mít trên cây,
Vỏ nó sù sì, múi nó dày.
Quân tử có yêu thì đóng cọc,
Xin đừng mân mó nhựa ra tay. - Hồ Xuân Hương

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#2 | Back to Top02-18-2017 07:13:47 AM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 169

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

There's a reliance on the archetypical "2010s-Youtuber" improvised/monotone shouting interludes, but I'm chalking that up to his own style for now. (The heart frame was great though.)

Also, he seemed to like the character writing, mostly how realistic they seemed, and the how strong the "artistic narrative", or thematics was presented. Though he did end up separating those elements from the repetition ultimately. I'm sort of the base that is alright with the repetition, with the sense that it adds to the unsettling and somewhat uncanny nature of the show, and strengthened a sense of ritual and... repetition. Like, the literal action ends up representing a metaphorical event. I don't quite agree with the creator of the video that the repeating of elements is something that's meant to be struggled through, but I do agree that it's quite noticeable if you do... er, notice it.
It seemed more general of an explanation than technical. A more technical view would probably have investigated when and how things repeat, and probably have gone a bit in depth into Juri's duels or the Black Rose duelists. (Tracing frames isn't as noticeable as outright reuse, but it's there.)

This also sort of ties into this topic, but most of the repetitive elements ends to involve the duels, or the lead-up to them, which does run on what he calls "smoke and mirrors."

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#3 | Back to Top02-18-2017 01:17:49 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

No, because like a lot of people who confidently expound on Utena and its meanings, he appears to have no knowledge of or interest in the production underpinings of the show. The re-use of footage, both in 90s anime in general and Utena in particular, was a necessity due to budget constraints, and in fact Utena was produced on a budget low even compared to other anime of that era. That it managed to parley those elements into becoming a part of its interesting and effective thematics, turning a seeming weakness into a strength, is one of the many reasons Utena is a masterpiece.

Last edited by Aelanie (02-18-2017 01:24:55 PM)

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#4 | Back to Top02-18-2017 03:20:34 PM

SaigonAlice
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 09-13-2016
Posts: 61

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

https://68.media.tumblr.com/19bfdd81dabf6c27434b4b35987185eb/tumblr_ollcpk7n3j1v0v69eo1_540.png
I really don't like this guys attitude! sudoStef I mean.

Last edited by SaigonAlice (02-18-2017 03:21:07 PM)


Thân em như quả mít trên cây,
Vỏ nó sù sì, múi nó dày.
Quân tử có yêu thì đóng cọc,
Xin đừng mân mó nhựa ra tay. - Hồ Xuân Hương

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#5 | Back to Top02-18-2017 06:51:13 PM

Arale
Ballgoer
From: collective human consciousness
Registered: 12-07-2014
Posts: 143
Website

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

The repetition in Utena is one of the best parts. It establishes patterns so it can assign connotation to them, and lets you roll with the 'structure' of an episode. Honestly, look at Penguindrum or Yuri Kuma Arashi, which although still use lots of repeating shots have far less pattern and structure than Utena, and see how much less story Ikuni fit in there. Utena's "slow pacing" actually allows for far, far more detail than at all immediately obvious. (Well, the 39 episodes and a movie also help with that.)


im a shadow play girl irl

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#6 | Back to Top02-19-2017 05:57:09 AM

itavin
Ballgoer
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 144

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

While he does have a valid point, I do think the the repetitive nature of the show allows the viewer to be familiar with the structure of the series, so when it does break the structure like in episode 19 or when the rose legend play is introduced, it gives us, the viewer, a sense that something has changed drastically. not to mention that it helps makes the events that happen around the so called repetitive scenes have far more weight and impact. Also you have to consider that the show had half the budget of evangellion and the ikuhara had to also direct and produce utena so... yeah the show was also cheap, but it used what it had to make one of the best anime (and possibly show) to air on TV.


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#7 | Back to Top02-19-2017 08:00:37 AM

sailor-anthy
Juri Jeerer
From: outer space
Registered: 07-22-2016
Posts: 48
Website

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

SaigonAlice wrote:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/19bfdd81dab … o1_540.png
I really don't like this guys attitude! sudoStef I mean.

I was debating going on this thread earlier, as part of me is anxious about discussions, but seeing this comment he made makes me wanna say something now. I found Stef's channel recently and enjoyed his content, and while I did kinda disagree with his Utena video I still saw his points. But that comment he made was really rude. Sure, what the person he replied to said could be taken as a little pretentious and goofy, that doesn't mean he can be rude back to them.
Baah, every orfice of YouTube's full of drama and arguing now anyways. :/


"There are some who call me... Tim."
- Tim the Enchanted

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#8 | Back to Top02-19-2017 08:50:02 AM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 169

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

sailor-anthy wrote:

SaigonAlice wrote:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/19bfdd81dab … o1_540.png
I really don't like this guys attitude! sudoStef I mean.

I was debating going on this thread earlier, as part of me is anxious about discussions, but seeing this comment he made makes me wanna say something now. I found Stef's channel recently and enjoyed his content, and while I did kinda disagree with his Utena video I still saw his points. But that comment he made was really rude. Sure, what the person he replied to said could be taken as a little pretentious and goofy, that doesn't mean he can be rude back to them.
Baah, every orfice of YouTube's full of drama and arguing now anyways. :/

Yeah, that's a big reason I try my best to avoid youtube comments, especially in more popular videos. There's bits of good writing you can find in them, but more often than not it has people shouting because they can shout. And they folks who thrive in that environment are in constant danger of portraying and refining the worst of it. You make your people, unfortunately.

Any suggestions for any other videos of his you could suggest? Even this one was baffling at points, (he seemed to like the series otherwise, so that's nice to know) I'm curious to see what else he did. Though a quick peek through the channel might do the same as well.

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#9 | Back to Top02-19-2017 11:37:32 AM

itavin
Ballgoer
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 144

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

zeedikay wrote:

sailor-anthy wrote:

SaigonAlice wrote:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/19bfdd81dab … o1_540.png
I really don't like this guys attitude! sudoStef I mean.

I was debating going on this thread earlier, as part of me is anxious about discussions, but seeing this comment he made makes me wanna say something now. I found Stef's channel recently and enjoyed his content, and while I did kinda disagree with his Utena video I still saw his points. But that comment he made was really rude. Sure, what the person he replied to said could be taken as a little pretentious and goofy, that doesn't mean he can be rude back to them.
Baah, every orfice of YouTube's full of drama and arguing now anyways. :/

Yeah, that's a big reason I try my best to avoid youtube comments, especially in more popular videos. There's bits of good writing you can find in them, but more often than not it has people shouting because they can shout. And they folks who thrive in that environment are in constant danger of portraying and refining the worst of it. You make your people, unfortunately.

Any suggestions for any other videos of his you could suggest? Even this one was baffling at points, (he seemed to like the series otherwise, so that's nice to know) I'm curious to see what else he did. Though a quick peek through the channel might do the same as well.

His videos are actually pretty okay for the most part, but his asuka character analysis is pretty dope, as well as his angels egg video. His welcome to the NHK video has some minor issues but its alright otherwise

links and shit: angel egg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4visn0VCp4 asuka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArapHa9N87Y
NHK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNlxz5gkEPE

Last edited by itavin (02-19-2017 11:41:11 AM)


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#10 | Back to Top02-20-2017 02:17:45 PM

itavin
Ballgoer
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 144

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

Speaking of people who critique utena and you want to physically shake them for focusing on the technical stuff too much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huQ-R43U8Hk Wanted to see more  reviews of utena being a not so steller show. Instead I Found a not so steller review. Also there is part 2 which is way, WAY worse then part 1.

Last edited by itavin (02-20-2017 02:18:04 PM)


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#11 | Back to Top02-21-2017 08:14:23 AM

sailor-anthy
Juri Jeerer
From: outer space
Registered: 07-22-2016
Posts: 48
Website

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

itavin wrote:

His videos are actually pretty okay for the most part, but his asuka character analysis is pretty dope, as well as his angels egg video. His welcome to the NHK video has some minor issues but its alright otherwise

links and shit: angel egg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4visn0VCp4 asuka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArapHa9N87Y
NHK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNlxz5gkEPE

Yeah, those were basically the videos I was gonna recommend (except Angel's Egg 'cause I haven't seen the vid or movie itself yet). His analysis videos of Evangelion are pretty fun to watch because of how passionate about the series he is.

itavin wrote:

Speaking of people who critique utena and you want to physically shake them for focusing on the technical stuff too much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huQ-R43U8Hk Wanted to see more  reviews of utena being a not so steller show. Instead I Found a not so steller review. Also there is part 2 which is way, WAY worse then part 1.

I clicked out right when he called Utena's approach to representing lesbianism "the retard way." I... I can't.


"There are some who call me... Tim."
- Tim the Enchanted

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#12 | Back to Top02-21-2017 09:14:12 AM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 169

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

I'm sort of on the same page about the Angel's Egg video, with it seeming more of a movie to experience first hand than anything else from what I've heard. The Eva related material is pretty solid though! (And the cat's adorable.)

With the 20th anniversary this year, you think there's going to be an increase in Utena related analysis videos on Youtube? It's appeared on a few recommendation list videos on more than a few channels from what I can tell, so it's not going to be that much of a surprise.

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#13 | Back to Top02-22-2017 09:19:25 AM

itavin
Ballgoer
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 144

Re: Does this guy have a point or is he talking out of his ass?

sailor-anthy wrote:

itavin wrote:

Speaking of people who critique utena and you want to physically shake them for focusing on the technical stuff too much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huQ-R43U8Hk Wanted to see more  reviews of utena being a not so steller show. Instead I Found a not so steller review. Also there is part 2 which is way, WAY worse then part 1.

I clicked out right when he called Utena's approach to representing lesbianism "the retard way." I... I can't.

Yep, but that is light compared to what he called utena in the second part (Spoilers: He said that utena isn't an artistic series and that it means nothing in the grand scheme of things)

zeedikay wrote:

With the 20th anniversary this year, you think there's going to be an increase in Utena related analysis videos on Youtube? It's appeared on a few recommendation list videos on more than a few channels from what I can tell, so it's not going to be that much of a surprise.

There are slowly but surely more people who are analyzing utena online and with steven universe and star vs the forces of evil who are influenced from it, I hope more people will join the fandom and help uncover there secrets emot-keke


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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