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#1 | Back to Top02-23-2014 03:55:59 PM

zevrem
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Registered: 03-23-2013
Posts: 387

Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

ITT we'll do requirements specification, in which we assign hard, measurable qualities to ideas that are normally viewed as being very generalized and mysterious, perhaps even spiritual in nature.

I'll start with love.

Love

Subfunctions/Subsystems:

Intimacy
Altruism
Acceptance

Measurements of intimacy:

# of the partner's 10 most favorite songs that you know
Ability to predict the other's actions
Time spent of physical contact per day

Measurements of altruism:

% of personal income one would dedicate to the aid of the other person
# of hours per week one would dedicate to aiding the other person
Amount of personal risk one would assume in order to help the other person

Measurements of acceptance:

The most morally reprehensible act that one would help the other person cover up.
The most hurtful act one would tolerate from the other person.
The most unfashionable outfit that you'd tolerate the other person wearing while you're together in public.

This is not perfect or complete, and it's not designed to be. For our purposes, it's just an example.

Last edited by zevrem (02-23-2014 04:00:44 PM)


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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#2 | Back to Top02-23-2014 04:19:02 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

zevrem wrote:

Measurements of intimacy:

# of the partner's 10 most favorite songs that you know
Ability to predict the other's actions
Time spent of physical contact per day

Measurements of altruism:

% of personal income one would dedicate to the aid of the other person
# of hours per week one would dedicate to aiding the other person
Amount of personal risk one would assume in order to help the other person

Measurements of acceptance:

The most morally reprehensible act that one would help the other person cover up.
The most hurtful act one would tolerate from the other person.
The most unfashionable outfit that you'd tolerate the other person wearing while you're together in public.

Some of those aren't measurable things, in an objective fashion, such as "most morally reprehensible act," but others, like the percentage of personal income, aren't genuinely a measure of altruism, because a millionaire can give up a larger portion of their income without starving to death than, say, a person working multiple shifts at McDonald's. They're good gauges, perhaps, but they're by necessity subjective.

Love is amphigoric, in the Korzysbki sense, especially in English. It's a suggestive word, but it's not very good for being concrete, because there is no definite quality to it, no requisite qualifiers. One person's definition-in-use of "love," can be parallel or tangent to another's, but it may also run virtually contrary.


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#3 | Back to Top02-23-2014 04:26:37 PM

zevrem
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Registered: 03-23-2013
Posts: 387

Re: Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

Again, these aren't perfect measurements, this measurement set isn't expected to be complete, and I'm sure that very few of these are true for everybody. These are estimates of estimates.

As for "morally reprehensible acts," maybe you could measure it according to time in prison spent for the act. Or you could assign each act an arbitrary place on a numerical scale, like 1-10, or 1-6 stars in GTA. Or the probability of the act making the evening news, and how much airtime that the evening news would dedicate to the act if it were performed.

Last edited by zevrem (02-23-2014 04:57:46 PM)


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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#4 | Back to Top02-23-2014 09:22:03 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

zevrem wrote:

Again, these aren't perfect measurements, this measurement set isn't expected to be complete, and I'm sure that very few of these are true for everybody. These are estimates of estimates.

I just don't see them being narrowed down too far in any useful direction.

zevrem wrote:

As for "morally reprehensible acts," maybe you could measure it according to time in prison spent for the act.

Yeah, but being queer or not fighting in a war like you're supposed to are hanging offenses in some places. Same troubles with an arbitrary or subjective scale assignment.

If it's about bearing the weight of covering or supporting, how do you gauge treason against something you believe in and treason, say, against a government you don't support either?


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#5 | Back to Top02-24-2014 04:34:02 PM

zevrem
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Registered: 03-23-2013
Posts: 387

Re: Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

How is being willing to lie to protect somebody not a sign of attachment? How can you be said to love somebody if you aren't willing to do that?

And these perhaps are not enough to prove the existence of love, but their absence is, I think, enough to prove the absence of love.

Plus, words like "love" aren't objective things. They're subjective ideas; they're unreal in a way that meters and seconds and cesium atoms are not. I have no problem with the idea that they're subjective; but people will always mean SOMETHING when they use words like "love." And if you use a word in a conversation, you basically have an obligation to have in mind something that's at least somewhat hardened.

Last edited by zevrem (02-24-2014 04:38:21 PM)


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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#6 | Back to Top02-24-2014 04:48:23 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

zevrem wrote:

How is being willing to lie to protect somebody not a sign of attachment? How can you be said to love somebody if you aren't willing to do that?

People lie to cover people quite often, without being romantic about it, or arguably, showing other forms of love.

Covering for someone because it benefits you financially, politically, socially... Or, you perhaps feel that the crimes, though illegal, were justified, or are unjustly illegal. You may simply not care as much as some other people or the law might care. Or, you may think they deserve a break, which is compassion, perhaps a form of societal love, but it's not romantic or personal, most likely.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#7 | Back to Top02-24-2014 05:54:51 PM

zevrem
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Registered: 03-23-2013
Posts: 387

Re: Let's engineer some common, nebulous concepts

Okay. But if you can't cover for somebody, then you probably don't like them very much. To reiterate,

And these perhaps are not enough to prove the existence of love, but their absence is, I think, enough to prove the absence of love.

Some counter-measures, as in the more you have these, the more you don't like the other person.

Callousness: The maximum amount of emotional turmoil that you'll tolerate in the other person without feeling similarly distressed yourself

Truthiness: the biggest lie you'd be willing to tell the other person

Infidelity: the most explicit sexual/emotional contact that you desire with other people

These aren't really that numerical, but they're still telling, regardless.

Last edited by zevrem (02-24-2014 08:20:35 PM)


The real purpose of elections is to make the people hate each other more than they hate their government.

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