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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top09-19-2013 06:07:52 PM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Made for rewatching

I've been rewatching Penguindrum, and I'm actually enjoying it a lot more this time. The beginning dwelling on Ringo doesn't bother me as much, I empathize with the characters much more, and I'm having a similar effect with SKU where a lot of the beginning takes on a completely different tone and meaning.

That leads me to thinking. I think most directors make anime that draws in immediately, but Ikuhara will specifically make anime that's extremely rewarding to rewatch, to the point of sacrificing some of the initial audience who didn't make it to the end. Masako and Ringo, while still being significantly batshit crazy, are both very sympathetic in scenes that were horrifying the first time around, kind of like the opposite effect of Anthy. Even Shoma is more sympathetic in his inability to do anything emot-tongue

I wonder if anyone else likes MP much more on rewatch, or has a similar way of the characters transforming completely.

Last edited by BlackBeforeRed (09-21-2013 03:38:13 AM)

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#2 | Back to Top09-19-2013 07:56:43 PM

mistspinner
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 08-10-2013
Posts: 92

Re: Made for rewatching

As one of the oddballs who enjoyed both shows near-equally, I can't personally comment on this, but it does recall something I read on someone's tumblr where apparently people who watched MPD first enjoyed SKU less and vice-versa

the poster then went on to speculate that it was because although the themes of the pieces overlap in some ways, their execution is quite different - which, while I don't think can account for everything, is a valid interpretation of fan reaction (and certainly an interesting fan phenomenon as it is)

personally, I think another reason could be because both pieces are so thematically/symbolically rich, that in the beginning, thematic/stylistic elements can seem to overwhelm narrative ones (which are revealed more gradually and thus initially seem less satisfying); it's one of the problems I had with a book I recently read called I Hotel, which stylistically was very fantastic and experiment, but which seemed at times to pay more attention to style over story - they were interesting characters and I didn't mind having to wade through a lot of text just to know what they were saying, but sometime the wading lead me to nothing but theme and a mix of that and character enjoyment, you know?

Basically, it's a tough balance, narrative versus style, but the most rewarding fiction I've read has always managed to straddle that line, and overall, I could think both shows did it skillfully

(then again, I did marathon MPD as opposed to watching it episode-by-episode - could that be a factor as well? Ah, but I'm rambling now, ought to stop)

Either way, I think that any kind of media that merits rewatching/rereading - and I say this in the same breath about thematic works like SKU and just plain fun stuff like Good Omens - is a story well done, in my opinion emot-keke;

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#3 | Back to Top09-19-2013 07:58:57 PM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Made for rewatching

I was actually thinking about rewatching it myself... I'd like to, anyway. Maybe next week.

I enjoyed MPD quite a bit and I think I'll enjoy it more now that I know what's going on emot-keke


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#4 | Back to Top09-19-2013 08:53:01 PM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Re: Made for rewatching

mistspinner wrote:

As one of the oddballs who enjoyed both shows near-equally, I can't personally comment on this, but it does recall something I read on someone's tumblr where apparently people who watched MPD first enjoyed SKU less and vice-versa

the poster then went on to speculate that it was because although the themes of the pieces overlap in some ways, their execution is quite different - which, while I don't think can account for everything, is a valid interpretation of fan reaction (and certainly an interesting fan phenomenon as it is)

personally, I think another reason could be because both pieces are so thematically/symbolically rich, that in the beginning, thematic/stylistic elements can seem to overwhelm narrative ones (which are revealed more gradually and thus initially seem less satisfying); it's one of the problems I had with a book I recently read called I Hotel, which stylistically was very fantastic and experiment, but which seemed at times to pay more attention to style over story - they were interesting characters and I didn't mind having to wade through a lot of text just to know what they were saying, but sometime the wading lead me to nothing but theme and a mix of that and character enjoyment, you know?

Basically, it's a tough balance, narrative versus style, but the most rewarding fiction I've read has always managed to straddle that line, and overall, I could think both shows did it skillfully

(then again, I did marathon MPD as opposed to watching it episode-by-episode - could that be a factor as well? Ah, but I'm rambling now, ought to stop)

Either way, I think that any kind of media that merits rewatching/rereading - and I say this in the same breath about thematic works like SKU and just plain fun stuff like Good Omens - is a story well done, in my opinion emot-keke;

I did see that tumblr post, and it's true. They have very different core messages, and different ways of going about it, with some shared aspects, but ultimately they are apples and oranges emot-tongue For me the real difference between SKU and MP was that as soon as I hit a certain point of SKU, I knew it was a true masterpiece, whereas with MP I'm slowly beginning to realize how good it truly was. And I guess some of that does have to do with holding it up to SKU standards, but I do think it's just a difference in the presentation.

Yasha wrote:

I was actually thinking about rewatching it myself... I'd like to, anyway. Maybe next week.

I enjoyed MPD quite a bit and I think I'll enjoy it more now that I know what's going on emot-keke

It's nice to enjoy the insanity knowing the full clusterfuck of the situation school-devil

It's electrifying, even emot-gonk

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#5 | Back to Top09-19-2013 09:16:51 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
Website

Re: Made for rewatching

MPD needs more attention than it's getting. Gio's thinking about picking up an artbook and getting some high quality scans done after we add the new SKU stuff, so that will help a bit. I'd really love to see some more discussion just in general on this part of the forum, because I liked MPD and it's sad that we don't talk about it much.

Maybe the rewatch will help with that.


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#6 | Back to Top09-20-2013 08:12:05 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2168
Website

Re: Made for rewatching

I'm looking forward to rewatching Penguindrum eventually. I really enjoyed it, both for the references to Utena devices (Rock Over Japan = Absolute Destiny Apocalypse; Double H = Shadow Play Girls; 1, 2, & 3 = Chu-chu, etc...)*, and for the new things Ikuni was doing with the series.

I thought it was a very worthy spiritual successor to Utena, and I like both of them very much, though Utena still holds the advantage. Penguindrum may not be as "grand" as Utena, but it lived up to my expectations of it, which I tried to keep in check after all of the hype. emot-keke;

*possible spoilers, highlight to see! I haven't posted in so long I forget if there are spoiler tags now.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (09-20-2013 08:16:03 PM)


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#7 | Back to Top09-20-2013 09:04:26 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Made for rewatching

MP certainly hasn't gotten as much attention as it should.  I mean, over half of the steady readers of my SKU/MP crossover actually started on the story without having ever watched MP, despite MP being the (much) newer of the two shows. 

edited to add: If people want more discussion of MP around, there was a comparison thread that I started over at the SKU forum like long ago:

http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=3164

Perhaps fans of MP can either necro that, or maybe do a sequel thread here in this part of the forum?

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (09-20-2013 09:11:08 PM)


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#8 | Back to Top09-21-2013 01:16:47 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Made for rewatching

Or I could move it over here, if there's interest. One of the code changes I made to the forum last night is the ability to merge threads or make posts into new topics. Let me know emot-smile


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#9 | Back to Top09-21-2013 04:00:35 AM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Re: Made for rewatching

I do think it's pretty difficult to compare SKU and MP directly when they're so different in message and presentation. At the same time, I do like all the throwbacks to Utena thrown in. It was the perfect way for Ikuni to say, "I know most of you are watching because I made SKU, and I won't just act like I don't want MP to have anything to do with that"

The way I see it, Utena has an advantage because it drags at first but pulls you in after the SC arc and takes you full speed to the ending, where I think MP started really strong but had some pacing problems that made it feel more like it was fizzling out until the last few episodes kicked into overdrive. That said, pacing is usually much less of a problem after you've already watched something, so it's not the worst problem to have. And SKU has that problem too, it takes thirteen episodes before you figure out what kind of show you're actually watching school-devil

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#10 | Back to Top09-21-2013 10:42:43 AM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Made for rewatching

Just recycled something I wrote before into a Tumblr post:

Punishment, Penguindrum-Style


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#11 | Back to Top02-02-2015 01:07:54 PM

yusaku
String Theorist
From: Kansas City
Registered: 03-09-2014
Posts: 180

Re: Made for rewatching

Just found a Penguindrum review and will likely renew my Hulu sub just to watch it.


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#12 | Back to Top02-02-2015 03:55:19 PM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 960

Re: Made for rewatching

I guess you could say my biggest problem with Penguindrum is I simple did not care for the characters. One of SKU's strengths is the depth of each and every character, even down to characters like Wakaba. I felt pretty much indifferent to the MPD characters, I suppose I felt they were more caricatures or symbols than fully-fleshed characters. In SKU, you can take out all the symbolism and weirdness and still have an awesome show about fascinating characters - Evangelion as well is an excellent monster of the week show with characters you just can't take your eyes off. But take all the symbolism and weirdness out of MPD and there isn't much left. And I don't mean it in a bad way - just that when I don't connect to the characters of a show I lose interest in what's going on, however good it is.


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